VC Defiant cracked backplate

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burnout

burnout

Member
Oct 21, 2011
68
Westchester, New York
Hi all. Did a search for this problem but couldn't find anything.

My less than a year old Defiant has had its back plate break in half. This is the catalytic converter cover, the one you take off to clean the cat and the one with the fancy design on it. Opened the door the other day and it was laying on the wood in two pieces. Stove guy said it is warrantied, but is on back order because it "happens all the time with these stoves."

My questions to you are this...

Has anyone else had this problem?

I have been running the stove with the two pieces sort of where they need to be but with a gap between the two pieces, will this damage my cat or stove?

Is there some sort of cement or technique to fix these pieces temporarily until I get the replacement part?

Does it really happen all the time or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks

P.S. In the mean time, I have ordered a replacement myself in addition to the warranty piece, just in case this happens again and there is a backlog of orders.
 
There was a discussion about these covers in a recent thread, here is the link

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/66655/

(hopefully that works!)

If I remember correctly there were some problems with the earlier "clam shell" covers but allegedly VC has reformulated the refactory mix whch was supposed to improve longevity/durability.

I am considering purchasing a new VC Defiant and would appreciate it if you could post how things go with this issue. Also, how much was the cover that you ordered? Your feelings in general on the stove overall?

Thanks!
 
The cover itself was about $60 or so(if I have to replace 1 per year that is kinda BS). The longevity is obviously still a problem. Installed in September, I have been burning in the stove since October. The winter up here in NY has been mild so I haven't been burning loads of wood at super high temp either. All dry stuff as well.

As far as the stove goes, I am happy with it. It makes the house nice and toasty, doesn't use a whole lot of wood. The only problems I have with it are ones that I believe are due to installation. Make sure your stove is installed by a real VC dealer. Mine was through my contractor, with a less than knowledgeable installer(see my other posts). I think the no-cat version of the stove is supposed to be better and you wont have to worry about replacing it in the future.

Problems I have had are the back puffing that everyone has, this fire back cracking, smoke coming out the top griddle while loading if I have only a smoldering fire(flaming fire, not so much), not being able to open both doors without smoke coming in the house (6" flue). The last two I think are due to installation even though I have the minimum draft of 16', if you can get more than that I think you will be OK.
 
burnout said:
The cover itself was about $60 or so(if I have to replace 1 per year that is kinda BS). The longevity is obviously still a problem. Installed in September, I have been burning in the stove since October. The winter up here in NY has been mild so I haven't been burning loads of wood at super high temp either. All dry stuff as well.

As far as the stove goes, I am happy with it. It makes the house nice and toasty, doesn't use a whole lot of wood. The only problems I have with it are ones that I believe are due to installation. Make sure your stove is installed by a real VC dealer. Mine was through my contractor, with a less than knowledgeable installer(see my other posts). I think the no-cat version of the stove is supposed to be better and you wont have to worry about replacing it in the future.

Problems I have had are the back puffing that everyone has, this fire back cracking, smoke coming out the top griddle while loading if I have only a smoldering fire(flaming fire, not so much), not being able to open both doors without smoke coming in the house (6" flue). The last two I think are due to installation even though I have the minimum draft of 16', if you can get more than that I think you will be OK.
Click to expand...

The cover should be replaced by VC as it should still be under warranty. Others here have had theirs replaced free of charge. Your mileage may vary. If you have a good dealer, calmly explain what the issue is and they should at least speak to VC directly to see how the warranty will cover this issue.

The back puffing and smoke spillage from the griddle and doors seem to be connected in this case, which is due to a week draft. Also, back-puffing can occur when you are too heavy-handed with the air controls. As an example, if you go from full open to close with the air controls, back-puffing has been known to happen.
 
burnout said:
Stove guy said it is warrantied, but is on back order because it "happens all the time with these stoves."
Click to expand...

Just saw this. Did he give you an estimated time it would take to replace the item? I know VC has been attempting to improve its customer service and parts replacement. Are we talking a week or two or the previous standard of 4-8 weeks?

If the replacement time is long, ask for a number in which you can speak with a VC rep directly and see if you can speed up the process.
 
burnout said:
P.S. In the mean time, I have ordered a replacement myself in addition to the warranty piece, just in case this happens again and there is a backlog of orders.
Click to expand...


Apparently I'm a slow reader this morning since I just saw this part of the post. Glad you found a solution and let us know if the replacement seems more durable and if it holds up longer. Also, let us know how long it takes to receive the part.
 
BrowningBAR said:
The cover should be replaced by VC as it should still be under warranty. Others here have had theirs replaced free of charge. Your mileage may vary. If you have a good dealer, calmly explain what the issue is and they should at least speak to VC directly to see how the warranty will cover this issue.

The back puffing and smoke spillage from the griddle and doors seem to be connected in this case, which is due to a week draft. Also, back-puffing can occur when you are too heavy-handed with the air controls. As an example, if you go from full open to close with the air controls, back-puffing has been known to happen.
Click to expand...

The back puffing is always due to air control. Once it was due to me closing the air control all the way. The following time was when I filled the stove up all the way and then engaged the cat, too much fuel available and not enough air...puff.

The plate will be warranted as stated. I just wanted another in case this new one cracks. The thing is only guaranteed for a year and I hate running the thing without all its proper pieces.

Should I not be getting ANY smoke at all in the house? It seems when the fire is going well or has burned down to where there is not a lot of smoke, I am fine. But, when I put a piece on, then go outside and bring another piece in, if I open the door the second time, I will get a face full of smoke. I can almost never open the griddle completely and usually only the right door can be opened without tons of smoke coming in. I do have the recommended draft for the stove, but you might be right and I will need more.
 
BrowningBAR said:
burnout said:
P.S. In the mean time, I have ordered a replacement myself in addition to the warranty piece, just in case this happens again and there is a backlog of orders.
Click to expand...


Apparently I'm a slow reader this morning since I just saw this part of the post. Glad you found a solution and let us know if the replacement seems more durable and if it holds up longer. Also, let us know how long it takes to receive the part.
Click to expand...

OOPS so am I, I just saw this post...already responded.
 
I am thinking, if nothing else, I can make a silicone mold of the piece and get some fire brick cement to form my own plates. Hopefully it wont come to this. But, I have seen buckets of stuff for forming your own bricks, may be better than what they make in Vermont.
 
burnout said:
BrowningBAR said:
The cover should be replaced by VC as it should still be under warranty. Others here have had theirs replaced free of charge. Your mileage may vary. If you have a good dealer, calmly explain what the issue is and they should at least speak to VC directly to see how the warranty will cover this issue.

The back puffing and smoke spillage from the griddle and doors seem to be connected in this case, which is due to a week draft. Also, back-puffing can occur when you are too heavy-handed with the air controls. As an example, if you go from full open to close with the air controls, back-puffing has been known to happen.
Click to expand...

The back puffing is always due to air control. Once it was due to me closing the air control all the way. The following time was when I filled the stove up all the way and then engaged the cat, too much fuel available and not enough air...puff.

The plate will be warranted as stated. I just wanted another in case this new one cracks. The thing is only guaranteed for a year and I hate running the thing without all its proper pieces.

Should I not be getting ANY smoke at all in the house? It seems when the fire is going well or has burned down to where there is not a lot of smoke, I am fine. But, when I put a piece on, then go outside and bring another piece in, if I open the door the second time, I will get a face full of smoke. I can almost never open the griddle completely and usually only the right door can be opened without tons of smoke coming in. I do have the recommended draft for the stove, but you might be right and I will need more.
Click to expand...


That seems like too much smoke. The double doors do like to suck out smoke if you open them to quickly, but I have never gotten a full face of smoke at any point when opening the griddle or doors.

I can leave the griddle fully open at any point of a burn (as long as the cat isn't engaged), walk away from the stove to the other room to grab some split and come back in and little to know smoke has escaped. And by little, I just mean smell as there is no visible sign of smoke.

If you have the cat engaged, you will get a lot of smoke since the damper is closed (I'm assuming this isn't what you are referring to). You need to open the damp before opening doors or griddle.
 
BrowningBAR said:
That seems like too much smoke. The double doors do like to suck out smoke if you open them to quickly, but I have never gotten a full face of smoke at any point when opening the griddle or doors.

I can leave the griddle fully open at any point of a burn (as long as the cat isn't engaged), walk away from the stove to the other room to grab some split and come back in and little to know smoke has escaped. And by little, I just mean smell as there is no visible sign of smoke.

If you have the cat engaged, you will get a lot of smoke since the damper is closed (I'm assuming this isn't what you are referring to). You need to open the damp before opening doors or griddle.
Click to expand...

No, I learned early about the cat being engaged and opening doors. This is when the chimney is wide open. I hate complaining about stuff, but this install still just doesn't seem right.

Its not every time either, I think I am at just under what I truly need for proper operation. Maybe a couple more feet will do the trick. And, like I said it has been mild this year, most days are 40-50 degrees outside going down to 35 at night. That would effect it as well, but at that temp, it should be fine, right?

One other problem I have, is that I get flow reversal even if the stove is still warm. Out, but still warm. I definitely have to use the blowtorch to get the thing going. You should see my wife's eyes when I do that.
 
burnout said:
BrowningBAR said:
That seems like too much smoke. The double doors do like to suck out smoke if you open them to quickly, but I have never gotten a full face of smoke at any point when opening the griddle or doors.

I can leave the griddle fully open at any point of a burn (as long as the cat isn't engaged), walk away from the stove to the other room to grab some split and come back in and little to know smoke has escaped. And by little, I just mean smell as there is no visible sign of smoke.

If you have the cat engaged, you will get a lot of smoke since the damper is closed (I'm assuming this isn't what you are referring to). You need to open the damp before opening doors or griddle.
Click to expand...

No, I learned early about the cat being engaged and opening doors. This is when the chimney is wide open. I hate complaining about stuff, but this install still just doesn't seem right.

Its not every time either, I think I am at just under what I truly need for proper operation. Maybe a couple more feet will do the trick. And, like I said it has been mild this year, most days are 40-50 degrees outside going down to 35 at night. That would effect it as well, but at that temp, it should be fine, right?

One other problem I have, is that I get flow reversal even if the stove is still warm. Out, but still warm. I definitely have to use the blowtorch to get the thing going. You should see my wife's eyes when I do that.
Click to expand...


Warmer weather will cause some problems for some in installs. Some people here noticeably weaker drafts until the weather dips further than 35. But, your draft still seems to be an issue.

Apart from the height, do you have any bends or is the stove top vented and goes straight up the chimney?
 
Will be interested in how this ultimately works out for you -- am considering a Defiant 2-in-1 but am a bit gun-shy re maintainence costs/durability.
 
BrowningBAR said:
Warmer weather will cause some problems for some in installs. Some people here noticeably weaker drafts until the weather dips further than 35. But, your draft still seems to be an issue.

Apart from the height, do you have any bends or is the stove top vented and goes straight up the chimney?
Click to expand...

Here is my original posting with pictures and all...

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/81722/

There were 3-90 degree bends essentially in the pipe. I complained until it got fixed. now it is straight up, but I think I still need a few more feet of pipe. The thing is WAY better than it was originally, but still the small problems persist. My "expert" installer assured me that everything was fine and I should wait for cold weather. Guess I will have to call him back, again.
 
LIJack said:
Will be interested in how this ultimately works out for you -- am considering a Defiant 2-in-1 but am a bit gun-shy re maintainence costs/durability.
Click to expand...

Here is my prediction... I will have it replaced this time for free. It will last until next year when my warranty runs out. Then, it will break again and I will have to pay for it. I will then have to buy a new one every year thereafter, or start making my own.

As far as the pipe, I will ask the guy to throw a few more feet on it to see how it works. He will probably baulk a the idea, but if it isn't right, it isn't right. Right now it is at the precipice for looking silly sticking out my roof, three more feet might tip the balance.

The stove works well, but as I said, not perfect. I am still getting smoke coming out if I open it up too much. Not all the time, but more than I like. I have little kids in the house, with little lungs. They don't need this stove causing them respiratory ailments so Daddy can save some dough on the heating bill.
 
Shoot, if I can make one that last a good long while, I can start selling replacement parts on here!!
 
burnout said:
LIJack said:
Will be interested in how this ultimately works out for you -- am considering a Defiant 2-in-1 but am a bit gun-shy re maintainence costs/durability.
Click to expand...

Here is my prediction... I will have it replaced this time for free. It will last until next year when my warranty runs out. Then, it will break again and I will have to pay for it. I will then have to buy a new one every year thereafter, or start making my own.

As far as the pipe, I will ask the guy to throw a few more feet on it to see how it works. He will probably baulk a the idea, but if it isn't right, it isn't right. Right now it is at the precipice for looking silly sticking out my roof, three more feet might tip the balance.

The stove works well, but as I said, not perfect. I am still getting smoke coming out if I open it up too much. Not all the time, but more than I like. I have little kids in the house, with little lungs. They don't need this stove causing them respiratory ailments so Daddy can save some dough on the heating bill.
Click to expand...


The firebrick casting should last much longer than one year. That is the reason they switched to this design, for the added durability. If they only last a year, that is a big issue. I think you should see a longer life from the piece and I hope you just got an early casting.

Most of your issues seem to be draft related. It can't hurt to add a few more feet of pipe.
 
OK, it looks like it will be a two week lag time from the time I ordered until I get it. Was promised to me at one week, but now is two due to back order.

You are right, they should last the life of the stove you would think, in an ideal world they would. I would be happy with 5 years. We'll see how the next one goes.
 
burnout said:
OK, it looks like it will be a two week lag time from the time I ordered until I get it. Was promised to me at one week, but now is two due to back order.

You are right, they should last the life of the stove you would think, in an ideal world they would. I would be happy with 5 years. We'll see how the next one goes.
Click to expand...


I think the life of the stove would be a bit much to expect. 5-7 years would be good for me. Especially since the parts costs are cheaper than the previous system.

Two weeks isn't surprising. Hope it doesn't get pushed back. VC used to be painful to deal with for parts. 4-8 weeks was the general estimate for a while. Lately the turn around time has been a lot better. I had to order a cat access panel for the Encore this September/October. I got it in about 10-14 days.
 
LIJack said:
Will be interested in how this ultimately works out for you -- am considering a Defiant 2-in-1 but am a bit gun-shy re maintainence costs/durability.
Click to expand...

My stove is a 1975 model. I think the 2 in 1 is new for this year. I read through the manual again and there was no mention of 2 in 1, only cat/non-cat. Don't think it's the same thing.

It's a nice stove, I like it, I just have a few problems as discussed earlier. Just be on top of whomever is installing your stove or you may disappointed. Even though they may say they have been in the business for 25 years, trust but verify.
 
I did not read the whole thread, but is the fireback on your stove made out of something else
than cast? Also, I skipped to the other thread where you posted pics... It looks to me (just me maybe) that the stove is a bit close to the wall???
 
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