Thereâ€™s your problem right thar! Creosote and the controlled burn.

burnout · Mar 2, 2012

I just noticed that my chimney cap had an excessive buildup of creosote on it. I said to myself that it was not a good idea to have so much on the cap as it could catch my roof on fire. I decided to over fire my stove a bit and see if I could burn it off. Not such a good idea.

It turns out that creosote will catch on fire even if you are trying to get rid of it on purpose. I saw that the roof was in danger so I got my water extinguishers and the garden hose. I wet down the roof and kept going even though some embers were falling.

Long story short, I was able to burn off the creosote with no danger of burning the house down. The clean up after was a pain, but I could have been one over-firing away from catching my roof on fire.

The moral: check your stack regularly and clean or burn if necessary. Burning a little creosote is not so bad, but burning a lot of build up can burn your house down.

By the way, I burn nice dry wood. See the pictures...

pen · Mar 2, 2012

So brushing it didn't seem like a legitimate alternative for you?

pen

NH_Wood · Mar 2, 2012

burnout said:
I just noticed that my chimney cap had an excessive buildup of creosote on it. I said to myself that it was not a good idea to have so much on the cap as it could catch my roof on fire. I decided to over fire my stove a bit and see if I could burn it off. Not such a good idea.

It turns out that creosote will catch on fire even if you are trying to get rid of it on purpose. I saw that the roof was in danger so I got my water extinguishers and the garden hose. I wet down the roof and kept going even though some embers were falling.

Long story short, I was able to burn off the creosote with no danger of burning the house down. The clean up after was a pain, but I could have been one over-firing away from catching my roof on fire.

The moral: check your stack regularly and clean or burn if necessary. Burning a little creosote is not so bad, but burning a lot of build up can burn your house down.

By the way, I burn nice dry wood. See the pictures...

?????? Why would expect it to NOT catch on fire because you are trying to catch it on fire??? If you are burning 'nice dry wood', you must be smoldering the heck out of it. Buy and brush and rods and clean that chimney more often, or hire someone to do it. Starting a chimney fire to be 'safe' is......well......I'll be nice: unsafe. Cheers!

begreen · Mar 2, 2012

I can see this happening in mild weather. That is a big stove and it likes to run hot. If the wood really is nice and dry, then it looks like the stove is turned down too far and smoldering. I would brush the chimney much more regularly with mild weather burning if this is the case.

Is the secondary air port (small flap on the left side) open?

BrowningBAR · Mar 2, 2012

Why was this moved to the Pre-EPA stove section? He is burning the new VC Defiant 2-in-1. The model is 1975. This isn't the old Pre-EPA defiant.

BrowningBAR · Mar 2, 2012

BeGreen said:
I can see this happening in mild weather. That is a big stove and it likes to run hot. If the wood really is nice and dry, then it looks like the stove is turned down too far and smoldering. I would brush the chimney much more regularly with mild weather burning if this is the case.

Is the secondary air port (small flap on the left side) open?

You are thinking of the wrong stove.

burnout · Mar 2, 2012

This post was to more serve as a warning to have peeps check their chimney out. The same would have happened if I put one of those creosote logs in. There was a fire call I went to where a guy did just that, his house almost burned to the ground that day. Sometimes, what seems like a good idea at first turns out you shouldn't have done it.

I was not in danger of burning the house down, I am a fireman in my spare time and have put out a few real chimney fires. I figured I would have burned the inside out a bit and knocked the outside off afterwards. Should have reversed the order, hehe. There were no flames roaring out the chimney, it just got a little red on the top and started falling off a bit, but it makes a good story. The inside of the chimney seemed really clean, just the top had a lot of buildup on it.

I am usually burning greater than 400F on the top of the stove, unless I am letting it go out. I think my main problem is the cap design. There is a shelf on the bottom that is probably a lot colder and flatter than the top of the chimney, hence the buildup. Next time, I just wont let it go so long. I have been burning for 5 months and it just never dawned on me to check the cap, my first year with the new generation of stoves. We had an old "Airtight" cast iron growing up (which was anything but). That thing never had buildup in it, always burned so hot with lots of air. I don't remember ever needing to clean that thing.

oldspark · Mar 2, 2012

This is a pet peeve of mine, stove top does not give you the whole picture, you need to motitor the flue temps if possible, and that cap is a mess and would scare the hell out of me, I have a picture of mine if I can get it posted.

BrowningBAR · Mar 2, 2012

The problem is that you need a cat probe. Your cat is clearly not engaging often enough and this is causing excess smoke, which is causing the build-up.

Stephen in SoKY · Mar 2, 2012

Which brand of chimney is that? That cap looks VERY restrictive in your photo.

burnout · Mar 2, 2012

oldspark said:
This is a pet peeve of mine, stove top does not give you the whole picture, you need to motitor the flue temps if possible, and that cap is a mess and would scare the hell out of me, I have a picture of mine if I can get it posted.

The green in me is showing. First year pitfall. You can bet that will never happen again. Maybe I can set up a thermocouple on the top to give a more accurate picture of what is going on in the stack.

Just goes to show how easy it is to think you are doing everything right and then look over something and have it bite you in the rear.

burnout · Mar 2, 2012

BrowningBAR said:
The problem is that you need a cat probe. Your cat is clearly not engaging often enough and this is causing excess smoke, which is causing the build-up.

I looked into getting one, but when I did look I found I had no place to put it on this stove. If you know different, I would sure like to know.

burnout · Mar 2, 2012

Stephen in SoKY said:
Which brand of chimney is that? That cap looks VERY restrictive in your photo.

Not sure of the brand, but yes it does look restrictive. The top seems to neck down a bit just under the top, maybe to 5 or 4.5 inches, not really sure. I didn't install it myself or I would know. I will try to snap a clean pic.

BrowningBAR · Mar 2, 2012

burnout said:
BrowningBAR said:

The problem is that you need a cat probe. Your cat is clearly not engaging often enough and this is causing excess smoke, which is causing the build-up.

Click to expand...

I looked into getting one, but when I did look I found I had no place to put it on this stove. If you know different, I would sure like to know.

Here is an example of an installed cat probe for your specific model Defiant:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/91474/P22/#1125254

Check the back of the stove. You should see a metal plug of sorts that can be removed and a probe inserted.

burnout · Mar 2, 2012

pen said:
So brushing it didn't seem like a legitimate alternative for you?

pen

It was, obviously, but my adventurous spirit got the better of me. Why bother brushing it off when I could use FIRE !!!

Turns out, what I was actually trying to burn off stayed right where it was. The only thing that actually flaked off was the underside of the cap. I couldn't get it hot enough to burn off of the ledge.

burnout · Mar 2, 2012

BrowningBAR said:
burnout said:

BrowningBAR said:

The problem is that you need a cat probe. Your cat is clearly not engaging often enough and this is causing excess smoke, which is causing the build-up.

Click to expand...

I looked into getting one, but when I did look I found I had no place to put it on this stove. If you know different, I would sure like to know.

Click to expand...

Here is an example of an installed cat probe for your specific model Defiant:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/91474/P22/#1125254

Check the back of the stove. You should see a metal plug of sorts that can be removed and a probe inserted.

After reading the posts on that thread, we seem to be having similar problems.

I will check the stove and see if I the plug is there. When I checked, there seemed to be no solution to it (no well for it). The thermocouple wont fail with that kind of direct heat on it?

nate379 · Mar 2, 2012

Probably Metalbestos. That is what I have and I have same type cap. I think the side holes in mine are a bit bigger though.

burnout said:
Stephen in SoKY said:

Which brand of chimney is that? That cap looks VERY restrictive in your photo.

Click to expand...

Not sure of the brand, but yes it does look restrictive. The top seems to neck down a bit just under the top, maybe to 5 or 4.5 inches, not really sure. I didn't install it myself or I would know. I will try to snap a clean pic.

greythorn3 · Mar 2, 2012

burnout said:
I was not in danger of burning the house down, I am a fireman in my spare time and have put out a few real chimney fires.

funny thing you say that as a local guy here I know is a firefighter and his house burnt to the ground last month because of a chimney fire.

over confidence will put you in your grave fast. better to have a little fear.

begreen · Mar 3, 2012

BrowningBAR said:
Why was this moved to the Pre-EPA stove section? He is burning the new VC Defiant 2-in-1. The model is 1975. This isn't the old Pre-EPA defiant.

My bad, thanks for catching that one. But this makes the post even more disconcerting. The point of these stoves is to avoid dirty burning. Yet here is evidence of a lot of crud collecting. It still sounds like the stove is either being run too cool or the wood is not as dry as thought.

BrowningBAR · Mar 3, 2012

BeGreen said:
BrowningBAR said:

Why was this moved to the Pre-EPA stove section? He is burning the new VC Defiant 2-in-1. The model is 1975. This isn't the old Pre-EPA defiant.

Click to expand...

My bad, thanks for catching that one. But this makes the post even more disconcerting. The point of these stoves is to avoid dirty burning. Yet here is evidence of a lot of crud collecting. It still sounds like the stove is either being run too cool or the wood is not as dry as thought.

I think he is battling a weak draft and some fuel issues.

oldspark · Mar 3, 2012

I dont care what stove it is you can burn it dirty under the right conditions.

ScotO · Mar 3, 2012

burnout I noticed in your pictures that you do not have a proper roof flashing on your flue pipe, and no storm collar at all! Not to bust yer chops, but you need to have a vented flashing for your flue, if I am not mistaken that is CODE. The class A pipe requires a vented flashing and a storm collar, that definately is not a flashing made for class A pipe. If something does happen (as far as a flue fire) and the insurance co. sees that flashing, you can bet your a$$ they are not gonna cover the claim!!

oldspark · Mar 3, 2012

good eye scotty good eye

wkpoor · Mar 3, 2012

Scotty Overkill said:
burnout I noticed in your pictures that you do not have a proper roof flashing on your flue pipe, and no storm collar at all! Not to bust yer chops, but you need to have a vented flashing for your flue, if I am not mistaken that is CODE. The class A pipe requires a vented flashing and a storm collar, that definately is not a flashing made for class A pipe. If something does happen (as far as a flue fire) and the insurance co. sees that flashing, you can bet your a$$ they are not gonna cover the claim!!

That looks like the identical roof flashing the dealer sold me for the summer kitchen install. There is no pipe in mine yet but that looks the same.

fossil · Mar 3, 2012

oldspark said:
I dont care what stove it is you can burn it dirty under the right conditions.

Or the wrong conditions, depending on how you want to characterize it. ;-)

Thereâ€™s your problem right thar! Creosote and the controlled burn.

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