owb smoke question

I've never seen a hardy, but the specs from the website seem like a lot of other traditional OWBs, that is, it is designed and built by a welder who knows next to nothing about burning wood efficiently. The water cooled walls mean it will smoke even with perfectly dry wood. 304 is a bad choice for a boiler and it's only 16 gauge in the firebox?!!

If the advantages of an OWB are more important to you than the smoke and burning twice as much wood, then you'll probably like it. There are plenty of much more efficient OWBs or other boiler/furnaces out there.

What are you heating and what are your options? natural gas? land? free wood? free child labor?

i have neighbors somewhat close 200-300 feet and dont want them mad at me cause of the smoke.

Chances are, they will get some, if not a lot of smoke issues.

From what I've heard on here the Hardy is a rugged boiler that will give you many years of service. It will allso make
a lot of smoke and use a lot more wood than a good gasser. If your truly worried about smoking your neighbor out I'd
make a different choice.

I would strongly suggest looking at other boilers. OWB all smoke theirs is no exception. Stainless is not an asset in a boiler. Had one and I'll leave it at that. If your set on a OWB look at ones that are built up north. Feel free to PM me with any questions.
A gasser will save you $ over the long haul because of the reduced wood consumption and higher efficiency. Also you won't have pissed of all you neighbors and local Fire Dept. Google "air inversion".
Rob

Walkerdogman85 I bought a used h4 this year because it was what I could afford. Right now I have $ 3000 invested in it. My return time on my money is short around 3 yrs figuring burning around 800 gallons of Propane prior years . I may be wrong but reading on here some have a considerable amount more tied up in a gasser. If you can afford a gasser and the required storage and the space for storage buy a gasser and burn DRY wood. That being said my hardy smokes. ALOT! Looks like a steam engine taking off when it comes off of idle especially when coming off a long idle. Luckily I don't have any neighbors right next door but if I did im sure they wouldn't appreciate the smoke. Don't buy into they can burn "anything" bs that is usually associated with these type of boilers. I was unprepared with wood this year and had to burn dry and green wood . I am however saving to upgrade to a gasser in the hopefully near future.

Stick with this forum there are alot if smart individuals on here that can help you with nearly any problem you could imagine. Ask lots of questions try the forum search if no luck ask youll get tons of help.

Good luck

A friend of mine has a hardy, it smokes a lot more than other owb designs in the neighborhood. If you have neighbors within 200' I think the hardy would not be a good choice. As far as wood usage that is dependent on design but he said he used 14 cord last year.

There's a home I have passed many times that heats with a Hardy. I've seen a steady line of smoke probably 400-500 feet coming off the unit. Luckily it's in the middle of farmland so there's little neighbors. Many times it's flooded the area with heavy clouds of smoke. What complaints do you have with an indoor wood furnace other than the mess? Temp swings, burntimes? Not all furnaces are made the same. As far as Owb's are concerned, be careful. I've seen more threads that I can count of their investments leaking after 3-5 years. I would be very pissed to invest that kind of money and have that happen. My buddy heats with a Central Boiler, he averages 32 large heaping truck loads of wood a season. He barely has time to cut and has difficulty keeping up due to his job. Our home is much bigger and we would burn 12 loads if each contained 1/2 cord. This year we won't even need that. There's some benefits of a Owb, but there's more negatives than positives.

check out this site outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com

Our furnace is a 1950 Hotblast (Psg Caddy). I don't need to worry about chimney fires because the unit burns much cleaner than the old furnace. We don't get smoke in the house. If your getting smoke then you have something isn't right. Either too many elbows, a restriction or improper flue size. As far as bugs, I only bring in enough wood for a few days. Usually a couple wheelbarrow loads will do, nothing like the old furnace. Our furnace also has a cold air portion of unit just like a central furnace. Inside there are 2 air filters that keep the air flowing through the house clean. Our furnace operates off natural draft and a wall thermostat. Right now the furnace is set for 74 degrees. It will click as it opens and closes the damper on the woodfurnace. We have no flames in the furnace now, just a coal bed and the house is warm. If you wanted hot water a loop could be placed where it would preheat the incoming water to the water heater. I considered a Owb before buying our new wood furnace, and many times I'm glad at the choice we made. Not all indoor wood furnaces are equal.

I put an indoor gaser in a shed to keep the mess outside. If I was to do it over, for insurance reasons and for convenience I'd attach a room to my house for an indoor boilerthat could be kept isolated from the house. Either way now that I've learned about both their is no way I'd put in a conventional OWB unless I found a very cheap one and that was all I could afford.

You may be able to do a gasser for that kind of money ! Why burn twice as much wood as you need to ? Why piss your neighbors off when you can have a better, longer lasting, more efficient boiler that don't smoke for around the same money ? That smoke you see is your unburnt fuel polluting the air.

I was going to buy a Hardy because they are so plentiful here in the hills of Tennessee. I'd say all the customers I spoke with liked the boiler with at least one neighbor (neighbor to me is .5-1.5 miles away) operating his for I think ~15 years. As far as OWBs go it has a long history and at least in my area satisfied customers. I happened on this website as part of doing boiler research and got some education and bought an indoor, imported gasser that's in a barn. When you drive by farms and homes out in the sticks were we live you can spot a Hardy, but sometimes the smoke is not excessive. I'm sure it a function of dry wood and all the usual factors of burning efficiently. Anyway if that's what you can afford, down here there's a bunch of them and I've never run across a mad customer. Read more here and buy what you can afford. I've had a few Hardy installers on my property and showed them the BioMass. They stare at my gasser installation like a calf looking at a new gate. A Gasser will be more efficient and far less smoke, but as much as I'd like to drive an Aston Martin...we all have limits. Read here a bunch and maybe you'll find a used EKO.

Be prepared to burn wood. All the hardy owners I know myself included go through wood. I don't turn any wood down unless its rotten. I heated my house on cotton wood sycamore elm silver maple oak hickory some free slab wood from a local mil (don't think ill go through that again) u name it I burnt it.

Yeah... he's right. That 15 year user I mentioned owns ~100 acres and he processes fence line blow down. Probably one reason why I see a lot of smoke. Folks always going out in the woods fetching whatever's down just to keep it fed.

Don't ignore the time required to fetch, process/split, stack wood. All that time is worth some money. But if there's lots of Hardy owners around you go talk to 3 or 4 of them.

I just put a blower on my CB 5036 and it works great for starting a fire or getting an old fire going that was on its way out, plus I have a bunch of seasond pine that was cut and stacked 4 years ago given to me. Ive been burning that on days that Im there. Sometimes I need the fan to burn that. I switched the fan and dont use it most of the time. I did have to drill 5 1" holes in the bottom for draft. Its true that you can burn anything in theses boilers and that the gassers need to be seasoned wood. The old smoker works so much better with good seasoned wood too.No mater how you slice it its a good idea the have seasoned wood to help with smoke and to lower wood consuption. Thats were I guess the gasser would be my choice if I were to do it again. It would be in a insulated shed with a years worth of wood beside it. Maybe a card table and a tv and beer.

walkerdogman85 said:

From what I have been told 304 stainless is only damaged by salt water. I had mine tested and the dealer says I have 20a parts per million which means I can use auto fill be he recommend that I flush and refill every year as far as efficiency why would a water box be a bad choice? I currently heat with electric my house 1600 square feet plus same size basement. I plan on building a detached garage in the next few years and have access to wood. I looked at central boiler and they were more expensive and didn't have a blower for combustion. I have talked to alot of folks around here and haven't heard any complaints about a hardy. What would you recommend I don't know what other options I have I tried a hotblast 1557m and it wasn't consistent heat plus all the mess inside
I am looking for consitent heat no inside mess and no chance of chimney fires and better inside air for my family thank you for opinions

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Water box is bad for efficiency because the heat exchange is determined by temperature, area and resistance to heat flow. A water box has lots of area, but it cools the fire so much that much of the fuel escapes (smoke) and the fuel that does burn doesn't reach as high a temperature as it could if there was better control of the fire with a smaller refractory combustion chamber. Idling an OWB is even worse, typically they're fully loaded then the water gets up to temp and the fan shuts off letting a huge mass of hot wood smolder until the water is cooled off enough to turn the blower. I'm burning in an Aquatherm right now (long story). I have radiant concrete slabs so I can burn "flat out" without idling, but I figure I'm burning about 2-3 times as much wood as last year with an indoor-cobbled-firebrick-boiler. If I didn't have the slabs to store the heat and had to keep the fire going 24/7 I'd guess that I'd be burning at least 5 times as much wood as with the indoor boiler.

I haven't found my ideal boiler yet, but I'll go out on a limb and recommend one of these heat pumps, especially if you have land to dig up for a ground loop or a good well and place to dump the water, or if you want AC and don't have it. Some of these will "help" heat the water, free if it's in AC mode.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FHP-Geother...341583?pt=Air_Conditioner&hash=item3a7124d1cf

If you're doing it yourself, the heatpump could be cheaper to install than the OWB and the electricity to run it will definitely be less than the value of the wood you'd burn.

Whatever boiler you buy, I am sure you will make it work. One question is, How much work do you want to do during the life of the boiler? More or less? I would only suggest that you look at buying a gassification boiler. Outdoor or indoor. I would not buy a Hardy just because several people you work with own one and a lot of people in the area own one. Buy a boiler that is going to be more efficient. Therefor use less wood and produce less smoke or emissions. And this will mean less work for you. Less smoke for the neighbors. And save you more money in the long run. Not putting down Hardy boilers. You will only buy one boiler in twenty or more years. Hopefully. That is a long time. Efficiency should be right up there with any other reason. A combination of an indoor gassification boiler with storage in a shed or garage, or an outdoor gassification boiler with enough capacity of its own(or with storage inside), will get you better results. Then you will have a better system than anyone around you.

woodywoodchucker said:

I just put a blower on my CB 5036 and it works great for starting a fire or getting an old fire going that was on its way out, plus I have a bunch of seasond pine that was cut and stacked 4 years ago given to me. Ive been burning that on days that Im there. Sometimes I need the fan to burn that. I switched the fan and dont use it most of the time. I did have to drill 5 1" holes in the bottom for draft. Its true that you can burn anything in theses boilers and that the gassers need to be seasoned wood. The old smoker works so much better with good seasoned wood too.No mater how you slice it its a good idea the have seasoned wood to help with smoke and to lower wood consuption. Thats were I guess the gasser would be my choice if I were to do it again. It would be in a insulated shed with a years worth of wood beside it. Maybe a card table and a tv and beer.

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now you're talking!

I made the mistake of buying into a OWB 7 years ago. I have researched many and they all run about the same and emmit about the same smoke and particulates. I attached a post worth looking at so oyu can see what you are getting into.

Yes the drier the wood the better, less smoke and more BTU's, but you can only do so much with the technology and believe me it isnt much in terms of technology.

I have finally saved enough to get a quallilty gasser and look ofrward to cutting the OWB into pieces.

Take a look at the post below: it speaks for itself.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/central-boiler-1400-vs-2400.83769/page-5#post-1093734

walkerdogman85 said:

i am thinking about biting the bullet and buying a hardy h4 and i was wondering how much smoke they put out? i have neighbors somewhat close 200-300 feet and dont want them mad at me cause of the smoke. i am new to burning wood and if there are any tips i would like to hear them,i have heard the drier the wood the less smoke is this true? also was wondering if anyone who has a hardy how many cords do you burn a year thank you

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I have installed more than a few Hardys and sold them personally from 1994-97. Most of them are still out there and still being used. I cannot think of any that were taken out of service because they failed or leaked. They are one of the longer lasting OWB's from what I have seen.

AFA smoke and efficiency goes, you can take your pick among any of the brands and they are all the same. The amount of smoke can be heavily influenced by what you are burning in it.
Even a campfire burns cleaner with seasoned wood.