Stove sometimes not lighting

newpelletstove · Mar 2, 2012

I have a Harman XXV, installed 4 years ago. The igniter was changed out about a year or so ago, on warranty.

It's worked fine until the last month or so. Sometimes the stove will ignite and sometimes it won't. If it doesn't, sometimes vacuuming everything out of the burnpot (unburned pellets, any ash) will make it light the next try. Sometimes not. If it doesn't light, I can put my hand on the burnpot and it's not hot at all (like the igniter was dead). But then, the next try it might light, which shows that the igniter is still working to some extent.

Has anybody seen this happen, or know what might be going on ? The pellets feed fine - that's not the problem. They are North American.

fmsm · Mar 2, 2012

Have you cleaned the igniter compartment and the air holes?

newpelletstove · Mar 2, 2012

fmsm said:
Have you cleaned the igniter compartment and the air holes?

I did open the little plate that gives access to the igniter compartment, and cleaned out what little ash was in there. As far as the air holes, I've scraped the surface of the burnpot, and it's pretty clean (there are a couple of stubborn spots, but it's mostly clean).

Shouldn't I be able to feel at least a little bit of heat when I stick my hand into the burnpot and feel the surface, even if those things were dirty ?

mepellet · Mar 2, 2012

newpelletstove said:
fmsm said:

Have you cleaned the igniter compartment and the air holes?

Click to expand...

I did open the little plate that gives access to the igniter compartment, and cleaned out what little ash was in there. As far as the air holes, I've scraped the surface of the burnpot, and it's pretty clean (there are a couple of stubborn spots, but it's mostly clean).

Shouldn't I be able to feel at least a little bit of heat when I stick my hand into the burnpot and feel the surface, even if those things were dirty ?

I would think so.

Defiant · Mar 2, 2012

Make sure all connections are secure and making contact. Could be a loose or frayed wire.

tjnamtiw · Mar 2, 2012

newpelletstove said:
fmsm said:

Have you cleaned the igniter compartment and the air holes?

Click to expand...

I did open the little plate that gives access to the igniter compartment, and cleaned out what little ash was in there. As far as the air holes, I've scraped the surface of the burnpot, and it's pretty clean (there are a couple of stubborn spots, but it's mostly clean).

I'm not a Harman owner but I noticed that newpelletstove didn''t confirm that he opened the air holes. He just 'scraped the surface of the burnpot'. I know on my Quads, no air holes = no fire. Especially the slot in front of the igniter.

gbreda · Mar 2, 2012

tjnamtiw said:
I'm not a Harman owner but I noticed that newpelletstove didn''t confirm that he opened the air holes. He just 'scraped the surface of the burnpot'. I know on my Quads, no air holes = no fire. Especially the slot in front of the igniter.

x2 on confirming opening the air holes. When it does burn, how is the flame?

newpelletstove · Mar 2, 2012

gbreda said:
tjnamtiw said:

I'm not a Harman owner but I noticed that newpelletstove didn''t confirm that he opened the air holes. He just 'scraped the surface of the burnpot'. I know on my Quads, no air holes = no fire. Especially the slot in front of the igniter.

Click to expand...

x2 on confirming opening the air holes. When it does burn, how is the flame?

When it does burn, the flame is strong and tall. I'm thinking it may be the wiring - I need to try to figure that out.

stoveguy2esw · Mar 2, 2012

heat and airflow are both needed. most igniters do not contact the fuel but light it convectively, the key to successful lighting is simple, you need to have ample airflow through the igniter's compartment out to the fuel to transport enough heat to light the fuel. think air in-air out, one of the two is not happening unless the igniter itself is bad in which case it would be cold, igniters are basically a resistance coil, they get hot from this resistance similar to how a light bulb produces light, when they go bad usually its as with a light bulb due to the filament breaking. they usually are an "all or nothing" proposition, they dont usually "get weak" they just die light a light bulb

smwilliamson · Mar 2, 2012

Make sure you have the 15 fin igniter. You may have got a 13 fin swapped out for your old 13 fin...both would have been recalled but the 15 fin may not have existed yet

exoilburner · Mar 3, 2012

When you take the little door off the burn pot to clean out the ash inside be sure to tap on the igniter fins a bunch of times. Sometimes it gets full of fly-ash between the fins.

newpelletstove · Mar 3, 2012

Thanks everybody for your comments.

I opened the area under the burnpot, and cleaned it again (it was pretty clean). I tapped the burnpot and the igniter as best I could. I even blew the whole area out with some low-pressure compressed air, then revacuumed. Then I tried to start up, and got no ignition. The pellets fed, the igniter light said it was on, but after several minutes, the igniter was still as cold as ice - it clearly had not been on at all. It may be out like a light-bulb, as someone mentioned.

So I called the store that sold me the stove. He told me that the igniter can be expected to fail once every year or two on these. Wow !! It's $110 just to buy one, and maybe $150 additional to have someone install it !! To try to do it myself, he said I could access the wiring connection by removing the combustion blower. I removed it, but the wires are not accessible that way. (You can see the blue and yellow wires that run to the igniter disappear into a whole in the back, and in the igniter chamber, you can see a white and brown (?) wire disappear down a tunnel. There are connectors somewhere in between.) So I plan to pay to have the company here this week.

I didn't know I'd have to spend $250 or so every year or two for the privilege of burning pellets with auto ignition. I like auto ignition because I turn the stove down at bedtime, the house cools off as I sleep, and then at 3 am or whenever, it comes back on by itself. This seems like the best way to economize on pellets. Maybe I should go to manual lighting, and somehow change the way I operate.

fmsm · Mar 3, 2012

If you start the stove manually does it give a good burn?

newpelletstove · Mar 3, 2012

fmsm said:
If you start the stove manually does it give a good burn?

I haven't tried manual lighting yet. But the last time it burned (a day or two ago) it burned good and strong. It seems to work great except for igniting.

Also, the ignitor failure seems to have been gradual - it wouldn't light sometimes unless I cleaned out the burnpot real well, then it would. But now it won't ignite at all. Maybe it's the wiring connections, or maybe there are two problems - the igniter and something else.

exoilburner · Mar 4, 2012

With the power off to the stove are you able to disconnect the 2 igniter connections and measure them with a meter?? I believe the igniter should read 46-49 ohms. (be sure your meter reads zero ohms with its probes connected; if not compensate your igniter measurement for it) If the igniter reads outside that range its probably bad. I have seen posts by others who have replaced igniters that have only been used for a year.

superchips · Mar 4, 2012

Get a good 'one push' propane tourch. It will light your stove for years.

stoveguy2esw · Mar 4, 2012

newpelletstove said:
So I called the store that sold me the stove. He told me that the igniter can be expected to fail once every year or two on these. Wow !! It's $110 just to buy one, and maybe $150 additional to have someone install it !! .

are you serious??? !!!

! :bug: WOW indeed! pretty danged expensive for a part expected to die that frequently

Defiant · Mar 4, 2012

The year of your stove 2008 had many igniter issues due to poor quality igniters ( the replacement could have been from an old batch) see if you can find the production date of the replacement. New igniters my way go for $125, if you are a little mechanical they are easy to replace.

SmokeyTheBear · Mar 5, 2012

stoveguy2esw said:
newpelletstove said:

So I called the store that sold me the stove. He told me that the igniter can be expected to fail once every year or two on these. Wow !! It's $110 just to buy one, and maybe $150 additional to have someone install it !! .

Click to expand...

are you serious???! :bug: WOW indeed! pretty danged expensive for a part expected to die that frequently

I'll take my cheapo stove with the $27.00 one set screw and removing a couple of knuckle scraper screws to get the air intake tube off system. That's too rich for this critter as well.

jtakeman · Mar 5, 2012

SmokeyTheBear said:
stoveguy2esw said:

newpelletstove said:

So I called the store that sold me the stove. He told me that the igniter can be expected to fail once every year or two on these. Wow !! It's $110 just to buy one, and maybe $150 additional to have someone install it !! .

Click to expand...

are you serious???! :bug: WOW indeed! pretty danged expensive for a part expected to die that frequently

Click to expand...

I'll take my cheapo stove with the $27.00 one set screw and removing a couple of knuckle scraper screws to get the air intake tube off system. That's too rich for this critter as well.

But its a Harman! The Cadillac of stoves. Nothing but the best! ;-)

Or was that Harmon? Or Harmin? I don't remember anymore! :red:

smoke show · Mar 5, 2012

j-takeman said:
SmokeyTheBear said:

stoveguy2esw said:

newpelletstove said:

So I called the store that sold me the stove. He told me that the igniter can be expected to fail once every year or two on these. Wow !! It's $110 just to buy one, and maybe $150 additional to have someone install it !! .

Click to expand...

are you serious???! :bug: WOW indeed! pretty danged expensive for a part expected to die that frequently

Click to expand...

I'll take my cheapo stove with the $27.00 one set screw and removing a couple of knuckle scraper screws to get the air intake tube off system. That's too rich for this critter as well.

Click to expand...

But its a Harman! The Cadillac of stoves. Nothing but the best! ;-)

Or was that Harmon? Or Harmin? I don't remember anymore! :red:

Jay, your not making any friends with comments like that. :eek:

hh:

Even the overpriced, over engineered MtV AE ignitor isn't nearly that much. ;-)

stoveguy2esw · Mar 5, 2012

smoke show said:
j-takeman said:

SmokeyTheBear said:

stoveguy2esw said:

newpelletstove said:

So I called the store that sold me the stove. He told me that the igniter can be expected to fail once every year or two on these. Wow !! It's $110 just to buy one, and maybe $150 additional to have someone install it !! .

Click to expand...

are you serious???! :bug: WOW indeed! pretty danged expensive for a part expected to die that frequently

Click to expand...

I'll take my cheapo stove with the $27.00 one set screw and removing a couple of knuckle scraper screws to get the air intake tube off system. That's too rich for this critter as well.

Click to expand...

But its a Harman! The Cadillac of stoves. Nothing but the best! ;-)

Or was that Harmon? Or Harmin? I don't remember anymore! :red:

Click to expand...

Jay, your not making any friends with comments like that. hh:

Even the overpriced, over engineered MtV AE ignitor isn't nearly that much. ;-)

for the record though i was more shocked by the dealers statement that the igniter was only gonna last a season or two, this is a bit harsh at the price, now if it was a cheap part then i'd not reacted that way. but the igniter apparantly isnt just a "stock hot rod" design so i understand the cost, but still the frequency is kinda depressing if its accurate

Defiant · Mar 5, 2012

Some of the Harmans I service produced in 2002 still have the original igniters.

newpelletstove · Mar 5, 2012

exoilburner said:
With the power off to the stove are you able to disconnect the 2 igniter connections and measure them with a meter?? I believe the igniter should read 46-49 ohms. (be sure your meter reads zero ohms with its probes connected; if not compensate your igniter measurement for it) If the igniter reads outside that range its probably bad. I have seen posts by others who have replaced igniters that have only been used for a year.

Hi exoilburner, I can't get to the igniter connections. The blue and yellow wires from the controller disappear through a hole, and the white and brown wires from the ingiter dissappear down a tunnel going back. When the service guy gets here, I'll see if he can show me how to get to the connections.

newpelletstove · Mar 5, 2012

superchips said:
Get a good 'one push' propane tourch. It will light your stove for years.

Hi superchips, the thing is I want it to relight by itself in the middle of the night, if possible.

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