Old Gravity System and New Yorker WC 130

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gtgoat

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Nov 22, 2008
12
Central CT
My CT home was built in the 1920's. It still has all its big iron radiators. The basement is full of piping angling from the furnace (2.5") and up towards the radiators (1"). I'm pretty sure it was originally a coal fired gravity feed system. It currently has a Burnham oil boiler with a circulator. We mainly rely on our wood insert which does a decent job of heating the living area. The problem is the bedrooms are under 60 degrees when it gets cold outside.

My solution: I have a friend getting ride of a New Yorker WC130 because he switched to an OWB. I'm thinking about relocating my oil burner with power venter and installing the WC130 in its place, just like the original gravity system. I'm estimating spending about $1,000 to relocated the oil burner and plumb in the WC130.

I have a few concerns.
- The current oil boiler never gets water temp above 130 degrees even after 3 hours of continuous burn due to the radiator mass. This leads to a lot of build up on the inside of the boiler. Will I have the same build up issue with the WC130?
- I don't plan on operating the WC130 with its blower motor. I want it to operate like my wood stove. I want it to burn when I load it up. I think the radiators will do a good job holding the heat so I don't need a circulator or thermostat on it calling for heat. Will that work?
- My friend got rid of his WC130 because of chimney fires (2 in 1 month). He had an exterior wall chimney (cold) and had the WC130 set up on a thermostat. It likely spent most of the day idling. If I run mine without a blower and thus don't idle it, will I avoid creosote problems?
- Am I crazy?

Thanks
 
You cant get the water temps above 130? That doesnt sound good at all, unless you have a boiler rated to handle the colder water temps all the time.

Why operate the system with a circulator and not just continue to operate it as a gravity system? This would let the temps in the boiler get plenty hot, and avoid the buildup.

If you were to put in a wood boiler, I would say that you would want return protection (something like a Danfoss valve, or an LK 820), and you would want to make sure that it ran full out. Sounds like you have the right idea to avoid a chimney fire...

I dont know enough about the New Yorker WC130 to be of much assistance, but it sounds like you have something else up with your current system. Even with all of the radiator mass, three hours of a full burn on your oil boiler should definitely bring the temps above 130..
 
You're right about the danfoos valve. It's probably my solution to bring up the oil burner temps (like a car thermostat).

I'm aware the reason for the temps never getting over 130 is due to the circulator constantly running and that there's over 200 gallons of water in the entire system plus at least 10 large cast iron radiators all on a single loop. Without a valve in there its trying to heat all that mass at once.

I've talked to a few "old timer" who have seen oil gravity systems. The problem is they swing 10 - 15 degrees. There is so much btu in oil that the thermostat shuts the burner off but the heat is already in the system and the big radiators keep releasing heat.
 
Is there a thermostatic mixer in there somewhere that keeps the rads at a max of 130? Your New Yorker will probably be quite a bit less powerfull than the oil boiler. I would run the system as a gravity loop as mentioned. I would also try to find some reasonably priced anthracite coal for when you need more heat or to keep the fire overnight. If the NY'er is rated for coal? Randy
 
It might just make sense to get the heating system zoned into two zones - one zone for the bedrooms where not much heat from the woodstove reaches, and one zone for everywhere else. I'd keep the Burnham boiler and invest in the zoning. I zoned my boiler for the bedrooms far from the woodstove and am quite happy with running the boiler once per day for <1 hour to keep the heat even throughout the house.
 
gtgoat said:
You're right about the danfoos valve. It's probably my solution to bring up the oil burner temps (like a car thermostat).

I'm aware the reason for the temps never getting over 130 is due to the circulator constantly running and that there's over 200 gallons of water in the entire system plus at least 10 large cast iron radiators all on a single loop. Without a valve in there its trying to heat all that mass at once.

I've talked to a few "old timer" who have seen oil gravity systems. The problem is they swing 10 - 15 degrees. There is so much btu in oil that the thermostat shuts the burner off but the heat is already in the system and the big radiators keep releasing heat.
Click to expand...

Well I'm not an 'old timer' yet and I had the pleasure of owning a converted to oil (from coal) gravity system in my last house. What a nightmare. Huge swings in temp and if the house got too cold it would run for hours. At 1.75 gpm.

Best fun I ever had was taking a sawsall to the whole system. It took the better part of four hours to drain all the water out of the system.
 
I had a New Yorker WC 130 in my house for 2 seasons. Right now it is in my basement, unhooked. I should have my Frohling up and running within a week or two.
I was never happy with the New Yorker. It made a lot of heat when it was running full blast, but when it idled it was a creosote machine. My biggest frustration with it was that I could never get it to burn more than 5 hrs without adding fuel. I ran only coal the first year. I mixed wood and coal the second year. Even when I had the coal heaped up inside, the fire would not last more that 5 hours. I tried different size coal-no difference. I finally called the manufacturer and they told me that it is only designed to burn around 5 or 6 hours.
If you want to add the boiler as a secondary unit to save on oil, I think it would be a good boiler. Having to get up at 3 or 4am everyday gets old in a hurry.
I ran mine with the fan. I have 7 zones, all radiant. One other thing to consider is if you burn coal and your house is not calling for heat it will overheat in a hurry. Make sure you have some way of getting rid of the extra heat. I ran my garage as a dump zone. Last winter it was always a toasty 80-90 degrees. It was nice cause our bedroom is above the garage, but I hated to see all that wasted energy.
 
Ben I am impressed you got 5 hours burns on your WC130. If I don't head down to the basement every 3 hours I would be starting a new fire. I set my timer switch to shut the fan off at 2.5hours.
 
At least I'm not the only one with creosote problems, and burn time problems in my WC 130... its never seemed to be the right temperature for it, too cold and it needed to be loaded ever 6 hours, too warm, and it was a creosote factory... switched to coal because I couldn't beat it...
 
I have been running my new Froling 40/50 for about 5 weeks now. I have 1550 gallons of storage. It has been mild this winter but it sure is nice to only burn for 5-6 hrs every couple of days. My system was not cheap but the most important thing is that it has made my wife a whole lot happier. I was so sick and tire of going down to the basement to throw wood on the new yorker. I still have not figured out a setting where I would recommend the wc130. Life with a gassifier is great. I am amazed at the efficiency and the technology that is in the Froling!
 
Ok now you are just showing off Ben :lol: :lol: What did the froling and storage set you back? Any Pics? We are thinking about selling our current house and buying my grandmothers house and I am going to make sure I do it right this time. Brian
 
It was not cheap. I am thinking the boiler, loading valve and everything else that came with it cost around 11k. I got my storage tank (1500 gal. unpressurized) and 4 copper coils for 6k. I found that from a local guy who bought it and never used it, so I saved some money there. Plumbing the system cost me more than I thought it would. If I had the knowledge and time I could have saved some money there. I wanted to go with 2 or 3 500 gallon propane tanks but ran into problems because our house is considered a commercial building here in PA due to the fact that my wife has a hair salon in the basement. I could have done that a lot cheaper. There is an Amish guy here who sells refurbished 500 gallon tanks for around $375.
It was a big investment, but it is a great feeling to have not used an ounce of propane since I got the system up and running. I have 13 acres of woods and thought it would be a good investment as well as a lot of fun processing the wood with my 3 kids when they get old enough. I will try to figure out how to put pictures up sometime in the near future.
 
I should mention that the New Yorker is still in my basement if anyone is interested. With all of my frustration with it, the guy who put it in for me never even made me pay him for
it. He thinks he has a new home for it.
 
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