Who is Correct?

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UglyStrike

New Member
Mar 9, 2012
23
KY
Hello everyone! After many years away from having a wood burning stove I have decided that it is time to install a stove insert into my pre-fad fireplace.

I have started the process and determined that my pre-fad fireplace is a Temco TFC 36-3 installed in 2002. Now come the questions:

1. The owners manual says that the Temco should not be used with inserts.

2. Dealer #1 states: All pre-fab fireplace manuals say that for liability reasons. If I buy his insert it would be fine, but any other insert would not work, even if I got the liner.

3. Dealer #2 states: Any insert that fits would be OK. He would recommend installing a liner, which he would be more than happy to supply.

4. Dealer #3 (The one that installed the fireplace) states: He believes that any insert that fits would be good, though most people do not. Up to me whether I want to install a liner or not.

So this is the information I have and I would like your opinions on the next course of action.

Note: My uncle has a Buck insert stored in his barn that he has offered to me, if I want it. He is going to check on the model number but believes it is a Model 20.

Thanks
 
Dealer one is correct that all the manuals say that, however, I think he just wants you to buy from him, hence "any other insert will not work."
 
The manual says you can't use an insert in it, so you can't use an insert in it. Period. But it's your house.
 
UglyStrike said:
Hello everyone! After many years away from having a wood burning stove I have decided that it is time to install a stove insert into my pre-fad fireplace.

I have started the process and determined that my pre-fad fireplace is a Temco TFC 36-3 installed in 2002. Now come the questions:

1. The owners manual says that the Temco should not be used with inserts.

2. Dealer #1 states: All pre-fab fireplace manuals say that for liability reasons. If I buy his insert it would be fine, but any other insert would not work, even if I got the liner.

3. Dealer #2 states: Any insert that fits would be OK. He would recommend installing a liner, which he would be more than happy to supply.

4. Dealer #3 (The one that installed the fireplace) states: He believes that any insert that fits would be good, though most people do not. Up to me whether I want to install a liner or not.

So this is the information I have and I would like your opinions on the next course of action.

Note: My uncle has a Buck insert stored in his barn that he has offered to me, if I want it. He is going to check on the model number but believes it is a Model 20.

Thanks
Click to expand...
If the insert manufacturer says not to, there approximately a zero% chance your home insurance is going to cover you in the event of a fire.
 
I think Buck makes an insert to install inside a prefab zero-clearance fireplace, but it's not the Model 20. Option 4: Remove the Temco and install your uncle's Model 20. Use the $ saved on a stove to build a nice hearth. :)
 
1. The owners manual says that the Temco should not be used with inserts.

Wood or pellet?
 
From the manual

20. WARNING: THIS FIREPLACE IS NOT INTENDED TO
BE USED WITH ANY COMPONENTS OTHER THAN
THOSE SPECIFIED IN THIS MANUAL (i.e.FIREPLACE
INSERTS, BLOWERS, GLASS DOOR EXTENSIONS,
HEAT CIRCULATORS). USE OF THESE ITEMS
COULD RESULT IN A SERIOUS FIRE HAZARD.

Didn't see any inserts specified in the manual.

Welcome, UglyStrike, by the way.
Some prefab fireplace manufacturers do permit the installation of an insert. They are generally tested with specific inserts, and those inserts are listed in the manual as 'approved'. That's all I found in the manual for your fireplace that mentions inserts.
 
The only concern would be the possibility of burning your house down.
 
UglyStrike said:
Hello everyone! After many years away from having a wood burning stove I have decided that it is time to install a stove insert into my pre-fad fireplace.

I have started the process and determined that my pre-fad fireplace is a Temco TFC 36-3 installed in 2002. Now come the questions:

1. The owners manual says that the Temco should not be used with inserts.

2. Dealer #1 states: All pre-fab fireplace manuals say that for liability reasons. If I buy his insert it would be fine, but any other insert would not work, even if I got the liner.

3. Dealer #2 states: Any insert that fits would be OK. He would recommend installing a liner, which he would be more than happy to supply.

4. Dealer #3 (The one that installed the fireplace) states: He believes that any insert that fits would be good, though most people do not. Up to me whether I want to install a liner or not.

So this is the information I have and I would like your opinions on the next course of action.

Note: My uncle has a Buck insert stored in his barn that he has offered to me, if I want it. He is going to check on the model number but believes it is a Model 20.

Thanks
Click to expand...

This question has a Wile E. Coyote feel to it.

You should pose the question to your insurance company. I believe they can straighten you out.
 
Ya know what doesn't make sense to me here. What could be safer than installing a wood burning appliance into another wood burning appliance. Isn't that like added protection? No way is the outside of the insert going to be hotter than the direct flames that where in there.
 
I'd go with the owners manual. I think the folks that make it would know best.

Anyone else who says other wise, would just want your money. My 2 cents.
 
wkpoor said:
Ya know what doesn't make sense to me here. What could be safer than installing a wood burning appliance into another wood burning appliance. Isn't that like added protection? No way is the outside of the insert going to be hotter than the direct flames that where in there.
Click to expand...

Don't think so? Shoot an IR thermo at the walls of a ZC fireplace with the usual ambiance burn they are made for. Then do it between the firebox of a wood stove that is cranking and those same firebox walls. Not to mention that five hundred pounds of weight sitting on the floor of the ZC that was designed for maybe forty pounds of wood sitting on it.

Bad idea. Really bad idea.
 
Make a hearth and put a freestanding stove, scrap the insert idea, a freestander will give you more heat and you wont have the liability problem of the insert in a prefab.
 
Seems to me your net is an awful small stove.

Ripping it out, maybe enlarging the bumpout and getting a bigger stove is not in the cards ?
 
wkpoor said:
Ya know what doesn't make sense to me here. What could be safer than installing a wood burning appliance into another wood burning appliance. Isn't that like added protection? No way is the outside of the insert going to be hotter than the direct flames that where in there.
Click to expand...

My thoughts are that putting a 500lb steel box into a sheet metal housing designed to hold 50lbs of firewood will end badly.

And shame on the stove shop 'pros' that encourage such adventures.
 
There was a post on here around 5 months ago where the owners of a newly built log home who were fairly new to woodburning had a chase built for a zero-clearance fireplace. Class A pipe was used, just as required for a ZC install. Problem was, they installed an insert RIGHT INTO THE CHASE. Yes they caught their house on fire, yes they could have lost their lives! Your install is not exactly the same as what those poor people did, but it's in the same ballpark. So if the manual doesn't say you can use an insert in there, DON'T USE AN INSERT IN THERE. Not trying to be harsh, and I don't even know you personally, but noone on Hearth.com wants to see you or someone you love lose their lives over saving a buck or two. Consider your joining Hearth.com a lifesaver, because it may very well have done just that.
 
BrotherBart said:
wkpoor said:
Ya know what doesn't make sense to me here. What could be safer than installing a wood burning appliance into another wood burning appliance. Isn't that like added protection? No way is the outside of the insert going to be hotter than the direct flames that where in there.
Click to expand...

Don't think so? Shoot an IR thermo at the walls of a ZC fireplace with the usual ambiance burn they are made for. Then do it between the firebox of a wood stove that is cranking and those same firebox walls. Not to mention that five hundred pounds of weight sitting on the floor of the ZC that was designed for maybe forty pounds of wood sitting on it.

Bad idea. Really bad idea.
Click to expand...
Maybe I don't have the typical ZC install then, but my ZC is siting inside a 12 foot wide by 3 foot deep chimney made of 2x6s and those sheet metal walls are covered with ceramic. Then the outside is insulated with the same fireblocking the whole chase is insulated with. Then the insert itself has walls design to block heat from escaping out the sides.
 
Thank you all for you replies! The information provided was excellent and I returned to the "professionals" provided them once again with the make and model of my insert and asked them to provide a warranty that their suggested products could be installed in my insert safely. I got no takers.

My next step is to have a chimney sweep come and provide me an estimate on how much it will cost to make my fireplace safe to install an insert. I expect this cost will be outside my budget, as I could not do the work myself.

My next question deals with burning wood in the fireplace I have. I have always had the understanding that a fireplace was useless for heating as you lost more heat up the chimney than was provided. Is this an accurate understanding?

Thanks
 
You will get some heat in the room the fireplace is in but other areas of the house will get colder. Most of the heat a fireplace generates goes up the chimney and that volume of air gets replaced by cold outside air.
 
wkpoor said:
You will get some heat in the room the fireplace is in but other areas of the house will get colder. Most of the heat a fireplace generates goes up the chimney and that volume of air gets replaced by cold outside air.
Click to expand...
+1. Fireplaces served well in colonial cabins because the cabins were usually one large room on the bottom floor. As time progressed homes got much bigger, and if you look at a farmhouse or mansion built in the mkd-1800s you will see several fireplaces (one per large room usually). The main reason was because a fireplace only gives you face radiant heat. Like wkpoor said, most of the heat goes up the flue on the combustion of the fire and draw of the flue. So as a rule of thumb, fireplace=decoration, stove or insert (or modern ZC fireplace)=heat.
 
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