Whats your opinion of the GM volt electric car?

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oldspark said:
Dune said:
oldspark said:
The posts got screwed up but cozy heat made my point about the performance of the volt and fit.
Click to expand...

All relative I guess. Compared to my Subaru GL, the Volt is a pavement stomper.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what your whole point was about the performance thing and your Subaru being a pavemnet stomper.
Click to expand...

Read it again, it was quite clear.
 
Politics belongs in the ashcan. Let's stay on topic.
 
mikefrommaine said:
Saw this on Fox news last week. Make sure you read the subtitles. Made me laugh.

http://www.obamavolt2012.com/Site/Obama_Volt_2012.html


<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/37540767?byline=0&portrait=0" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

Chevy Volt - Building a Better Tomorrow from Ben Howe on Vimeo.</p>
Click to expand...

Found this, which disproves all the lies in your link. http://www.treehugger.com/cars/obamavolt-video-chockfull-lies-and-misinformation.html
Can we keep this non-partisan?
 
Seasoned Oak said:
i keep hearing how EXPENSIVE the volt is but as i said earlier a $349 lease is a WHOPPING $16 more than the last car i leased. That car got 25 MPG and was no hybrid . Wheres the huge expense. After the 3 year lease is up if the volt dont depreciate it will be a bargain to exercise the option to purchase,if it does depreciate too much ill just give it back, 3 years is a lifetime as far as electric car advances go,besides there will probably be a dozen other choices by that time including a $249 lease on a NEW 2015 Volt with an 80 mile range.
Click to expand...

I've never leased a car. It's never made good economic sense for me. But if you are going to lease, then sure why not try one? When test driving, also try out the Ford Fusion Hybrid. I hear it's a nice vehicle and also made in the USA.
 
Dune said:
oldspark said:
Dune said:
oldspark said:
The posts got screwed up but cozy heat made my point about the performance of the volt and fit.
Click to expand...

All relative I guess. Compared to my Subaru GL, the Volt is a pavement stomper.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what your whole point was about the performance thing and your Subaru being a pavemnet stomper.
Click to expand...

Read it again, it was quite clear.
Click to expand...
I guess I dont understand, you made a statement the volt was a performance car and the fit was not, so the fit is faster 0 to 60 and in the 1/4 mile so that is what baffles me, oh well I just will have to settle for being confused or is their some one who can spell it out for me.
 
While the auto companies are coming up with a reasonably priced electric car that will match the distance I drive every day I'd like to see CNG cars other than the Honda Civic make an appearance. The technology is here now, there are minimal changes needed to current vehicles to switch them over and it would be real easy to get pumping stations to set up a CNG pump.

MAtt
 
BeGreen said:
That is essentially the difference. It's not even in the same league. The Geo Metro had a curb weight of about 1700 lbs or almost half that of a regular car. It was a total dog for performance with dubious handling and safety. There's really no comparison to the fit, finish, safety, performance and comfort of modern electrics or hybrids. Drive a Nissan Leaf, Toyota Prius or the Volt to compare.
Click to expand...
WOW you read a lot in my post, I guess you think I am an idiot. For some all they want is high milage and the Metro did just that.
 
EatenByLimestone said:
While the auto companies are coming up with a reasonably priced electric car that will match the distance I drive every day I'd like to see CNG cars other than the Honda Civic make an appearance. The technology is here now, there are minimal changes needed to current vehicles to switch them over and it would be real easy to get pumping stations to set up a CNG pump.

MAtt
Click to expand...

One of my Uncles had a Dodge 3/4 ton p/u back in the late '80s that he installed propane converter on it.With a flip of the switch he could change from propane to gasoline.Damn good idea if you ask me.
 
EatenByLimestone said:
While the auto companies are coming up with a reasonably priced electric car that will match the distance I drive every day I'd like to see CNG cars other than the Honda Civic make an appearance. The technology is here now, there are minimal changes needed to current vehicles to switch them over and it would be real easy to get pumping stations to set up a CNG pump.

MAtt
Click to expand...
GM and Dodge just announced their HD trucks will have a CNG option. It also looks like it will be between 10 and 13K Too much for any MPG savings IMO I think The Honda CNG also adds 6-7K ,Seems like a lot for what amounts to an additional Fuel tank and a few switches. Perhaps if the Electric car rebate were extended to CNG conversions we may have something.
THey are considering taxing GAS Extraction in PA So now would be a good time to strike a deal with the Gas companies ,Convert x number of cars and trucks to CNG in exchange for x amount of tax relief.
 
BeGreen said:
Seasoned Oak said:
i keep hearing how EXPENSIVE the volt is but as i said earlier a $349 lease is a WHOPPING $16 more than the last car i leased. That car got 25 MPG and was no hybrid . Wheres the huge expense. After the 3 year lease is up if the volt dont depreciate it will be a bargain to exercise the option to purchase,if it does depreciate too much ill just give it back, 3 years is a lifetime as far as electric car advances go,besides there will probably be a dozen other choices by that time including a $249 lease on a NEW 2015 Volt with an 80 mile range.
Click to expand...

I've never leased a car. It's never made good economic sense for me. But if you are going to lease, then sure why not try one? When test driving, also try out the Ford Fusion Hybrid. I hear it's a nice vehicle and also made in the USA.
Click to expand...
If you have no intention of keeping the car longer than 3 years you may save serious money in some cases. AS long as the car is in fairly good condition or you didnt go way over the Milege,
ON the other hand trade in a 3 year old car you purchased and watch the shellacin you take on the deal. All lease deals are NOT alike,there are good ones and bad ones.
Volt tech is too new and to improving too rapidly too keep the first one out of the gate for more than 3 years.IMO.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
EatenByLimestone said:
While the auto companies are coming up with a reasonably priced electric car that will match the distance I drive every day I'd like to see CNG cars other than the Honda Civic make an appearance. The technology is here now, there are minimal changes needed to current vehicles to switch them over and it would be real easy to get pumping stations to set up a CNG pump.

MAtt
Click to expand...
GM and Dodge just announced their HD trucks will have a CNG option. It also looks like it will be between 10 and 13K Too much for any MPG savings IMO I think The Honda CNG also adds 6-7K ,Seems like a lot for what amounts to an additional Fuel tank and a few switches. Perhaps if the Electric car rebate were extended to CNG conversions we may have something.
THey are considering taxing GAS Extraction in PA So now would be a good time to strike a deal with the Gas companies ,Convert x number of cars and trucks to CNG in exchange for x amount of tax relief.
Click to expand...

It does cover natural gas cars. It is not an electric car subsidy, it is an alternative fuel car subsidy.
 
A $7,500 tax credit is wothless to most people. Who pays $7,500 in income tax. Not very many people. If your paying that kind of income tax you probably dont really need the credit anyhow. Your probably pretty well off.
 
BeGreen said:
Seasoned Oak said:
i keep hearing how EXPENSIVE the volt is but as i said earlier a $349 lease is a WHOPPING $16 more than the last car i leased. That car got 25 MPG and was no hybrid . Wheres the huge expense. After the 3 year lease is up if the volt dont depreciate it will be a bargain to exercise the option to purchase,if it does depreciate too much ill just give it back, 3 years is a lifetime as far as electric car advances go,besides there will probably be a dozen other choices by that time including a $249 lease on a NEW 2015 Volt with an 80 mile range.
Click to expand...

I've never leased a car. It's never made good economic sense for me. But if you are going to lease, then sure why not try one? When test driving, also try out the Ford Fusion Hybrid. I hear it's a nice vehicle and also made in the USA.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered a lease either. But we are talking new technology, technology that will be vastly better in a few years, and if like the iPads, better in a couple of months ;)

So leasing a Volt would be the time I would seriously consider leasing. Your ownership costs would not be that bad or that far off from buying a "regular" car. $30 a week for gas and a car payment could easily top the $349 a month for the lease. My pickup payments for a used pickup (old truck so a 30 month payment plan is $280 a month, and getting 18 mpg the $30 a week estimate is low :))

A Volt looks like a money saver for me. Now to talk to my power company in the town I work in. They are great and would probably be interested in setting up a "Charging Center". Maybe use their EV to drive people to and from their facility. Ooh look, a potential job creation opportunity. Could get a valet crew to drive people to and from work, park their EV's at a charging facility so the chargers could be centralized... If we thought about the future instead of cowering in fear of change we could get some progress in this country.


Garygary, I used your plans to put up some solar panels on my roof. Thank you for putting up that site, it has been great ;) I made some mistakes in the implementation of my panels, but even with the mistakes, which I plan to fix this spring when I add more panels I have cut my oil use for hot water dramatically... Thank you for posting the plans that others have made, it has helped me see that solar is possible and feasible. Even in my little wooded corner of Maine.
 
woodsmaster said:
A $7,500 tax credit is wothless to most people. Who pays $7,500 in income tax. Not very many people. If your paying that kind of income tax you probably dont really need the credit anyhow. Your probably pretty well off.
Click to expand...

The credit is being changed to 10K and also will go to the dealer instead. This change may make a big difference.
 
If the dealer could drop the price that would be better for the consumer than uncle sam tricking you into thinking that your
getting a break that you never get or cant use fully.
 
Thistle said:
EatenByLimestone said:
While the auto companies are coming up with a reasonably priced electric car that will match the distance I drive every day I'd like to see CNG cars other than the Honda Civic make an appearance. The technology is here now, there are minimal changes needed to current vehicles to switch them over and it would be real easy to get pumping stations to set up a CNG pump.

MAtt
Click to expand...

One of my Uncles had a Dodge 3/4 ton p/u back in the late '80s that he installed propane converter on it.With a flip of the switch he could change from propane to gasoline.Damn good idea if you ask me.
Click to expand...
I lived on the plains of CO in the 80's and one of the locals had a CNG truck. He loved it, but learned the hard way not to paint the tank to match the truck color :) He said he was driving down the road and the tank got so hot it "blew off" and vented!

He loved that truck, and is probably still driving it. He owned the gas station in town, so CNG was not an economic decision for him.
 
Dune said:
woodsmaster said:
A $7,500 tax credit is wothless to most people. Who pays $7,500 in income tax. Not very many people. If your paying that kind of income tax you probably dont really need the credit anyhow. Your probably pretty well off.
Click to expand...

The credit is being changed to 10K and also will go to the dealer instead. This change may make a big difference.
Click to expand...

Not sure if the $7500 comment was meant to be sarcastic or not. While they say almost 50% of the population don't pay income tax (hence everything from the government is a a free gift), so it may be true. A person making a little over $35,000 could fall into the 25% tax bracket and pay over $8,750 in income taxes.

$10K to the dealer is probably the worst of all, though I suppose it does save a bit of hassle ...I remember many cases when the stove tax credit was in effect...suddenly a $2000 stove shot up to $3000+ with the lure of some tax credit to 'save you' $1000.
 
cozy heat said:
Dune said:
woodsmaster said:
A $7,500 tax credit is wothless to most people. Who pays $7,500 in income tax. Not very many people. If your paying that kind of income tax you probably dont really need the credit anyhow. Your probably pretty well off.
Click to expand...

The credit is being changed to 10K and also will go to the dealer instead. This change may make a big difference.
Click to expand...

Not sure if the $7500 comment was meant to be sarcastic or not. While they say almost 50% of the population don't pay income tax (hence everything from the government is a a free gift), so it may be true. A person making a little over $35,000 could fall into the 25% tax bracket and pay over $8,750 in income taxes.

$10K to the dealer is probably the worst of all, though I suppose it does save a bit of hassle ...I remember many cases when the stove tax credit was in effect...suddenly a $2000 stove shot up to $3000+ with the lure of some tax credit to 'save you' $1000.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are going to raise the price...I think they are pretty desperate to sell some cars.
 
Dune said:
I don't think they are going to raise the price...I think they are pretty desperate to sell some cars.
Click to expand...

It is inevitable that a subsidy raises the price. It is one of the imperfections of subsidies. Moving the subsidy from the tax payer to the dealer lets more people into the game but also means more people take advantage of it and it becomes a bigger tax burden. It also keeps the price artificially high.

They are desperate. I checked the inventory and just about every configuration/color combo is sitting on a lot within 50 miles of me.
 
SolarAndWood said:
Dune said:
I don't think they are going to raise the price...I think they are pretty desperate to sell some cars.
Click to expand...

It is inevitable that a subsidy raises the price. It is one of the imperfections of subsidies. Moving the subsidy from the tax payer to the dealer lets more people into the game but also means more people take advantage of it and it becomes a bigger tax burden. It also keeps the price artificially high.

They are desperate. I checked the inventory and just about every configuration/color combo is sitting on a lot within 50 miles of me.
Click to expand...

I have had a hard evening and I am very tired, but I don't see why it is inevitable. They are not selling now, they will make just as much money without raising the price. Oh well, we will find out soon.
 
Cross a supply and demand curve and you find an equilibrium price and quantity sold. Add the subsidy and the price goes up to generate the increased quantity sold. Kind of the point of a subsidy but it does inflate the price.

Put another way, they would have to drastically reduce the price to move all the units sitting on the lots right now. The subsidy artificially inflates the price.
 
Thistle said:
EatenByLimestone said:
While the auto companies are coming up with a reasonably priced electric car that will match the distance I drive every day I'd like to see CNG cars other than the Honda Civic make an appearance. The technology is here now, there are minimal changes needed to current vehicles to switch them over and it would be real easy to get pumping stations to set up a CNG pump.

MAtt
Click to expand...

One of my Uncles had a Dodge 3/4 ton p/u back in the late '80s that he installed propane converter on it.With a flip of the switch he could change from propane to gasoline.Damn good idea if you ask me.
Click to expand...

My dad had the local propane guy put one on 73 Chevy p/u in the late '70s. I believe back then gas would shoot up while propane and corn did not making it more feasible. Today propane and corn rise in price with gasoline. Even if you are a farmer with your own corn, you would be money ahead to sell all the corn and buy gasoline rather than having a small still to "brew" your own. The self sufficient part of it would be nice though in case of some type of nationwide disaster but I'm not sure an E85 vehicle would run on 100% alcohol. The CNG has it's own challenges, most notable the time it takes to fuel. It takes about 4 hours of fueling to replace 50 miles of driving CNG details, but you can do it in your garage so it's kind of like a plug in vehicle. I'm sure this could be improved upon but maybe not to the extent of today's gas stations. My FIL's company looked at CNG a few years ago for their cement trucks but the fueling time and station cost was a deal breaker and they only use them 8 hrs a day tops. A least NG is clean burning and available in US so it may still be our answer to foreign oil.

LINK fixed
 
tatnic corners said:
BeGreen said:
Seasoned Oak said:
i keep hearing how EXPENSIVE the volt is but as i said earlier a $349 lease is a WHOPPING $16 more than the last car i leased. That car got 25 MPG and was no hybrid . Wheres the huge expense. After the 3 year lease is up if the volt dont depreciate it will be a bargain to exercise the option to purchase,if it does depreciate too much ill just give it back, 3 years is a lifetime as far as electric car advances go,besides there will probably be a dozen other choices by that time including a $249 lease on a NEW 2015 Volt with an 80 mile range.
Click to expand...

I've never leased a car. It's never made good economic sense for me. But if you are going to lease, then sure why not try one? When test driving, also try out the Ford Fusion Hybrid. I hear it's a nice vehicle and also made in the USA.
Click to expand...
I've never seriously considered a lease either. But we are talking new technology, technology that will be vastly better in a few years, and if like the iPads, better in a couple of months ;)

So leasing a Volt would be the time I would seriously consider leasing. Your ownership costs would not be that bad or that far off from buying a "regular" car. $30 a week for gas and a car payment could easily top the $349 a month for the lease. My pickup payments for a used pickup (old truck so a 30 month payment plan is $280 a month, and getting 18 mpg the $30 a week estimate is low :))

A Volt looks like a money saver for me. Now to talk to my power company in the town I work in. They are great and would probably be interested in setting up a "Charging Center". Maybe use their EV to drive people to and from their facility. Ooh look, a potential job creation opportunity. Could get a valet crew to drive people to and from work, park their EV's at a charging facility so the chargers could be centralized... If we thought about the future instead of cowering in fear of change we could get some progress in this country.
this at your work parking lot or garage. The metering method if actually necessary would be the most expensive part of it.

Garygary, I used your plans to put up some solar panels on my roof. Thank you for putting up that site, it has been great ;) I made some mistakes in the implementation of my panels, but even with the mistakes, which I plan to fix this spring when I add more panels I have cut my oil use for hot water dramatically... Thank you for posting the plans that others have made, it has helped me see that solar is possible and feasible. Even in my little wooded corner of Maine.
Click to expand...


No special charging center is really necessary. A 240V outlet would charge it in 3 hrs. A 120V takes about 10-11 hrs for full charge. We're not talking millions in federal spending to accomplish this. Some basic electrician work and any parking lot could be set up this way. The metering method would probably be the most costly and that is only if precise measurement is really necessary. I contend an employer could get a reasonable measurement setup that would cover their cost of electricity and make everyone happy. The cost of the additional service and putting in outlets would probably be picked up by the employer to jump start use.
 
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