Newbie Introduction & question - Warning - long post Blaze King Princess

bens33ford · Mar 11, 2012

Howdy, My name is Benjamin & I just moved up to Weed in No. Ca. Just purchased a new Blaze King Princess insert PI 1010A & the burn time seems extrememly low compared to all of the info/posts (only 4-5 hours max!). I'll try to provide as much info as I can so you guys can help determine if this is operator error or if there is an issue with the stove.
Installed by a local professional -2 story house-30' of 8" SS liner-cap & plate on top. First burn procedure followed to burn off paint/oils etc. I have loaded the stove 4 or 5 times now, trying different loading,stacking methods but can't the stove to "slow down" It seems like it is getting to much combustion air even tho the tstat is set to minimum. The wood I am using is dry, split & seasond log pole pine-with little or no bark. All tstat adjustments were made graduallly in 20 minute increments.
Here is the process I have been doing.
Load stove, open bypas, tstat on high, light stove & wait for temp to move into the active range.
Once in active range I close the bypass & make my 1st tstat adjustment down towards medium.

I continue to adjust the tstat down every 20 minutes (see the 1st picture after 1 hour-tstat is at medium)
I have checked to door seal & it doesn't seem to be allowing air in when it is closed. I can hear & feel the bypass damper as I close it.
The fan speed/adjustment doesn't seem to effect the burn times.
Even when the tstat is at minimum I can still see the flames & the wood is completely engulfed. I can even hear the draft/draw if I put my head on the right side of the stove. My expectation is that with the fan off, I shouldn't be able to hear the draft at all, & the stove should be in "smolder" mode & I shouldn't be able to see the flames reaching up like they have a strong air source.
After just 2 hours the wood appears to be 50% consumed.

The latest load is now nothing but glowing coals & it has only been 3.5 hours
I am going to call the dealer - (Orley in Medford) but I wanted to get some feedback from some experienced users.
Am I doing something wrong, or could it be that the tstat is not choking down the combustion air? How can I verify?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Benjamin

blades · Mar 11, 2012

You seem to be doing just fine, long burns that you spoke of are not going to happen with pine. You could possible extend it some by adding a damper to your flue, 30 ft a long one and I am sure once it is warmed up the draft is quite high. By adding a damper you could reduce the draft speed which would reduce the amount of combustion air being sucked into your stove resulting in a longer burn. You do not want to clamp it down to much or the flue will cool and start loading up with creosote. Each install is different so there are no absolutes involved.

bens33ford · Mar 11, 2012

Thanks for the quick reply Dolmar. I also have a non-catalytic Hearthstone stove in my Family room on the same floor. (similar flue length) where I burn the same cord wood & it seems to have longer burn times than this new Hi-E stove, I can't see any easy way to install a damper in the SS liner. I would think that if the combustion air was choked down or controlled within the stove.....the draft would not have such a strong impact.
Benjamin

wood4free · Mar 11, 2012

The only thing I know about cat stoves is from what I have read here on Hearth so hopefully other Blaze King users will help you out. I will say it looks like you have a ferocious fire going there. Cat stoves should be smoldering, especially if you don't need a tremendous amount of heat. Why not try dialing down the tstat much sooner after the wood has caught fire. Seems I recall most Blaze King users have their tstat set around 1 or 2 (I think).

jeff_t · Mar 11, 2012

I'm not familiar with the princess insert, but which way are you turning the dial? Mine moves 180Â°, with straight up 12 o'clock being closed, 6 o'clock wide open. Turns clockwise. Also note that the princess should have a 6" vent, but that shouldn't have that drastic of an effect. Or, something is wrong with the thermostat. You should be able to cut it back to a low smolder, regardless of the type of wood.

rdust · Mar 11, 2012

jeff_t said:
Mine moves 180Â°, with straight up 12 o'clock being closed, 6 o'clock wide open. Turns clockwise. Also note that the princess should have a 6" vent, but that shouldn't have that drastic of an effect. Or, something is wrong with the thermostat. You should be able to cut it back to a low smolder, regardless of the type of wood.

x2!

You may have a t-stat that is wound backwards. When you go from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock you should be able to hear the flapper in the t-stat close around 1 o'clock or so on a stone cold stove.(at this point it should be lights out..no flames) When the stove is hot you should hear it close at a higher setting say 3 o'clock when going from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock. As the stove gets hotter that closing point should be higher.

Here is a thread on the Faulty T-stat.

jeff_t · Mar 11, 2012

rdust said:
jeff_t said:

Mine moves 180Â°, with straight up 12 o'clock being closed, 6 o'clock wide open. Turns clockwise. Also note that the princess should have a 6" vent, but that shouldn't have that drastic of an effect. Or, something is wrong with the thermostat. You should be able to cut it back to a low smolder, regardless of the type of wood.

Click to expand...

x2!

You may have a t-stat that is wound backwards. When you go from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock you should be able to hear the flapper in the t-stat close around 1 o'clock or so on a stone cold stove.(at this point it should be lights out..no flames) When the stove is hot you should hear it close at a higher setting say 3 o'clock when going from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock. As the stove gets hotter that closing point should be higher.

Here is a thread on the Faulty T-stat.

I'm not sure how the insert works. I know there are dots instead of numbers. I would think the knob turns the same way? The stop allows mine to turn from about 8 all the way around to 6 o'clock. Going down past 1 doesn't matter, though, because it's closed all the way. Too bad it isn't as simple as pulling the t-stat cover off on the back of the stove, to see what's going on.

And Rick, I don't lnow if you've watched your stat work with the cover off or not, but on my stove 1.5 is closed, 3.5 is wide open, doesn't matter how hot the stove is.

rdust · Mar 11, 2012

jeff_t said:
And Rick, I don't lnow if you've watched your stat work with the cover off or not, but on my stove 1.5 is closed, 3.5 is wide open, doesn't matter how hot the stove is.

I haven't pulled the cover but I can hear it close at different spots depending on the temp. Stone cold is just over one, when I'm dialing it down after loading it I hear it close right around 1 3/4 or if I have it cooking just a touch under 2. I can't always tell when it closes since you hear it along with the flame going out on the wood and secondary fire in front of the cat/above the wood.

elwoodps · Mar 12, 2012

jeff_t said:
... Also note that the princess should have a 6" vent, but that shouldn't have that drastic of an effect.....

Actually, the "over-sized" 8 inch liner gives the exhaust more room to quickly expand and cool inside the flue, resulting in a weaker draft than you'd have with a "properly sized" 6 inch liner of the same height. :long:

bens33ford · Mar 12, 2012

Jeff, your right, it is a 6" flue/ I got confused with a different stove in the barn! I tried moving the tstat from 6:00 oclock to 12:00 oclock but no real diferemce in the draft noise or "dancing flame" effect. I can hear some clicks from the tstat but I cannot hear anuthing that sounds like the damper closing. I see full on flame dancing regardless of the tstat setting.

aansorge · Mar 12, 2012

The door handle is adjustable; maybe it doesn't shut the door tight enough and needs an adjustment.

bens33ford · Mar 12, 2012

Aansorge, The indentation on the door cord on the inside of the mating surface looks to be centered & tight. I have also used significant pressure (foot pressure) against the door to see if it effects the air flow (it doesn't) I guess I'll have to pull the insert away from the hearth to inspect the damper & tstat operations - but I was hoping for a simpler resolution. Just for reference, when the stove is on low fire (1 or 2 on the tstat) I should not really see any flames dancing & a full load of dried pine should last at least 12 hours?
Benjamin

rdust · Mar 12, 2012

bens33ford said:
Aansorge, The indentation on the door cord on the inside of the mating surface looks to be centered & tight. I have also used significant pressure (foot pressure) against the door to see if it effects the air flow (it doesn't) I guess I'll have to pull the insert away from the hearth to inspect the damper & tstat operations - but I was hoping for a simpler resolution. Just for reference, when the stove is on low fire (1 or 2 on the tstat) I should not really see any flames dancing & a full load of dried pine should last at least 12 hours?
Benjamin

Yes from my experience the flame will be out when the flapper on the t-stat closes, this happens between 1-2 o'clock on my t-stat. 12 hours on a full load of pine(picture below of mine full) with the stove on low(12 o'clock) after a 20-30 minute burn in I think is doable. You must be having a t-stat issue or a major air leak. When I dial mine down if I slowly go from high to low I'll hear a metallic clink(t stat closing) and the flames will go away, mine makes the same sound when I go to high(clockwise to 6 o'clock)

SolarAndWood · Mar 12, 2012

Sounds like door leakage to me. Have you done the dollar bill test? I would give the latch a full turn and see what happens.

bens33ford · Mar 12, 2012

Thanks fire God, I'll do the dollar bill test in the morning (when the fire goes out) & post the results.

weatherguy · Mar 12, 2012

Yeah, do the dollar bill test because my burn times went down quite a bit when my door was leaking. I have the same stove and the tstat is wide open at 12 oclock and closed at 6 oclock with 9 dots in between. I have 26' of 6 in flex and have one hell of a draft, mine usually shuts the flames down at dot 2 or 3, maybe with pine and 30' you'd have to turn ot down lower but it should still snuff out flames closed. You may have one of those faulty tstats. Check the door and adjust if needed and let us know how it goes from there.

North of 60 · Mar 12, 2012

blades said:
You seem to be doing just fine, long burns that you spoke of are not going to happen with pine. You could possible extend it some by adding a damper to your flue, 30 ft a long one and I am sure once it is warmed up the draft is quite high. By adding a damper you could reduce the draft speed which would reduce the amount of combustion air being sucked into your stove resulting in a longer burn. You do not want to clamp it down to much or the flue will cool and start loading up with creosote. Each install is different so there are no absolutes involved.

Try again. Pine or any other wood should be able to be snuffed out and smoulder just fine in this stove. This is not operating at all close to normal for this stove. It is not doing just fine.

To the OP. Being that this is an insert, its a tuff one to get to the thermostatic flapper. I think that it is hung up in the open position. Something has been dinted in the area that the flapper travels in and cannot move freely or bi-metal is disconnected. A warranty job for your installer.
Let us know the culprit and good luck.

Hass · Mar 12, 2012

I burned a good bit of pine this year... Absolutely snuffs it right out within seconds of turning it down to 1. Usually flames stop showing at about 1.5 on my stove... different stove though.
Turn your thermostat full open... Then flip it full shut past 1, you should hear the flapper make a "ting" sound. If it's not doing that something is wrong with your flapper/t-stat. You can do it stove burning or not... doesn't matter.

Wood Duck · Mar 12, 2012

I don't know any details about your stove, but your burn times and those pictures of the fire make me think you are getting a lot of air into that fire. Lots of air and long burn times don't go together. I agree something is wrong with the stove like an air leak or the air control isn't closing down properly.

bens33ford · Mar 12, 2012

Follow up & partial resolution. I performed the doller bill/thin paper test on the loading door gasket. Plenty of resistance when trying to remove the paper from the closed door. (in some areas it wouldn't budge) I adjusted the door slightly just for fun. Loaded up the stove to see if anything changed....nope. Pyro & Master - the problem IS with the damper/flapper. While it was blazing away I looked thru the louvres on the right side were the tstat is located. I saw how the stat is connected to a small flap damper via a small chain. (like a key chain or a pull chain on a lamp) With the stove blazing away & the tstat on low, the flap damper was about 1.25" open. I reached in with a thin srew driver & manually pushed the damper closed. Eureka! The flames slowed down tremendously. I manually manipulated the damper open & closed a few time & it seems to be easier to move, but it doesn't really close all the way even with the stove blazing away. I called the store & they informed the factory. The factory says that the damper closes just with it's own weight. They will send a repair guy out if the damper doesn't loosen up & close correctly. The flames do not completely extinguish but at least it a slow & lazy flame as opposed to a rapid fire. Here is a question for any other Blaze King Princess insert owners - With the damer closed can you hear air noise thru the damper? I get a high pitched constant whistle with the damper closed. I have to lift it slightly to keep it from whistling.
Thanks again to all for your advise.

weatherguy · Mar 12, 2012

bens33ford said:
Follow up & partial resolution. I performed the doller bill/thin paper test on the loading door gasket. Plenty of resistance when trying to remove the paper from the closed door. (in some areas it wouldn't budge) I adjusted the door slightly just for fun. Loaded up the stove to see if anything changed....nope. Pyro & Master - the problem IS with the damper/flapper. While it was blazing away I looked thru the louvres on the right side were the tstat is located. I saw how the stat is connected to a small flap damper via a small chain. (like a key chain or a pull chain on a lamp) With the stove blazing away & the tstat on low, the flap damper was about 1.25" open. I reached in with a thin srew driver & manually pushed the damper closed. Eureka! The flames slowed down tremendously. I manually manipulated the damper open & closed a few time & it seems to be easier to move, but it doesn't really close all the way even with the stove blazing away. I called the store & they informed the factory. The factory says that the damper closes just with it's own weight. They will send a repair guy out if the damper doesn't loosen up & close correctly. The flames do not completely extinguish but at least it a slow & lazy flame as opposed to a rapid fire. Here is a question for any other Blaze King Princess insert owners - With the damer closed can you hear air noise thru the damper? I get a high pitched constant whistle with the damper closed. I have to lift it slightly to keep it from whistling.
Thanks again to all for your advise.

I think even closed all the way a little air gets through, IIll close it down all the way and check it again but today we're 70 so Im not sure when Ill be firing it up again.
I usually hear a whistle from the air getting sucked in.
Sounds like you found your problem though, thats good, you should get at least 10-12 hour burns even with the wood your using.

cmonSTART · Mar 13, 2012

On the freestanding stoves there is a small hole in the flapper door which lets air through, even when closed. It's not much though.

I've never noticed a whistle on any BK stove or insert. That's interesting. It's not necessarily a problem, but it is a bit odd. Hmm.

Glad you found your problem. I personally get 12 hour burns out of pine, with my longest being 14.5 hours. (Sad that I keep track of that.)

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