My recent dealing with my propane supplier 03-12

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kinsmanstoves

kinsmanstoves

Minister of Fire
Aug 29, 2007
3,480
Ravenna, Ohio 44266
kinsmanstoves.com
This why I heat with a pellet stove.

I have two LP hot water systems. One is an on demand mounted in a cabinet above the toilet in the main bathroom. It works the shower, bath sink, kitchen sink, and dish washer. The other is a standard 30 gallon for the laundry room and the kids full bathroom. We use approx one tank 325 gallon - 20% a year. We do have a forced air LP furnace but it has not ran in 5 years and the valve is shut off.

I got a bill in the mail for $71 for tank rental. I call the provider and they said I am not a high volume customer so I have to pay tank rental. Well I tell them I just hit 20% on the tank and would like to get a fill. The rate was quoted at $2.79. I told them to come and get their tank and credit me for the 20% or give me a price to buy the tank. The lady starts to stutter and asks me to expalin. I tell her the same thing and ask what enviormental procedure does she need to do to remove the lp and haul out an LP tank. She said she needs to talk to her boss and will call me back.

She calls back and says they would much rather sell me the tank for $450 then remove it but they can offer me a fill at $1.90 a gallon plus tax. I told her to fill it.

Why could they not just fill it at $1.90. I will have to remember this when I sell pellets and offer the same type of deal.
 
kinsmanstoves said:
Why could they not just fill it at $1.90?
Click to expand...

I'll tell ya why, because they S%#*!!!

There are a couple of other points in life I can compare the feeling I got when I realized my pellet stove took the place of my LP furnace!

After 10 years of hassle, these Buttwads (and that's being very nice) will not have that control over me EVER again. Granted, I still have a stove and HW heater that run off the LP, but overall that's a drop in the bucket compared to what we dealt with.

Thankfully, I haven't had to deal with any of the repercussions of being a less important customer yet (less volume). Time will tell on that.........

The hunting for pellets, hauling, stacking, stove cleaning ect........is peanuts to dealing with them!

Can you tell I enjoy payback? =
 
Similar situation here.
I'm prepared to buy my tank the minute my BS meter goes off. I've had a few problems with my vendor right here in town and I see the writing on the wall. Word is they've been selling 'pane the other side of the county (40 miles away) for around a $1 less a gallon.
 
Another good reason is you can stock pile wood pellets, can't do that with LP or oil, your limited to the size of the tank. I love holding the 6+ tons I got on hand; knowing that I will not be subject to sticker shocked next year when oil, gas and wood pellets go up. If oil and LP drop, then fine I will use that, either way I figured I've hedged my bets pretty good. One things for sure, I won't be cold and broke.
 
Bank said:
Another good reason is you can stock pile wood pellets, can't do that with LP or oil, your limited to the size of the tank. I love holding the 6+ tons I got on hand; knowing that I will not be subject to sticker shocked next year when oil, gas and wood pellets go up. If oil and LP drop, then fine I will use that, either way I figured I've hedged my bets pretty good. One things for sure, I won't be cold and broke.
Click to expand...


With the writting on the wall for this summer if you have 6 tons in the bunker I would try to get a few more somewhere else. As a wholesaler I will say these are the cheapest pellet prices you will see for a while.

Eric
 
They tried the same crap with me too. Called and asked if I had switched to another heating system because I haven't ordered propane since 2009, (two 150 gal tanks) that I only use for cooking and the BBQ grill. They told me that I needed to make a minimum order each year or they were coming to get the tanks. I told them I have about 60% left in them and if they wanted to come get the tanks, be my guest, but I want a credit for the 60% they are taking back at what I paid for it. They said that there was an unloading fee of $200 and that they were sending a bill for the lease of the tanks. I kindly reminded them of last year they tried the same thing and I said to come and get your tanks but you never did and as I see it, you left the tanks here, so if you hit me with a lease, I will bill you for storage of your equipment on my property...they said they would get back to me.

bastards.
 
I pay $20.89 a yr on my Main tank for the house (500 gal). The one for my garage, they forgot about (in between my wood stacks). They just started billing me $99 a yr for no usage. My last fill was Nov 09 (2.5 yrs ago) and I have 40%-45% left. In 2 yrs when its empty, they can take both of them.

So its still gonna cost me $200 (for 2 yrs no usage) and then $42 (for 2 yrs of rental). I already have Two 100 gal tanks. That will last me almost 2 yrs.....

I hate the LP companies. Hates a strong word and use it very little. But they are crooks.

2 more yrs and $242 and I will be done with them........ If we didnt cook with LP, I wouldnt use any.

Good for you Eric. Thats a great price. Stickin to your guns........ ;)
 
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smwilliamson said:
They tried the same crap with me too. Called and asked if I had switched to another heating system because I haven't ordered propane since 2009, (two 150 gal tanks) that I only use for cooking and the BBQ grill. They told me that I needed to make a minimum order each year or they were coming to get the tanks. I told them I have about 60% left in them and if they wanted to come get the tanks, be my guest, but I want a credit for the 60% they are taking back at what I paid for it. They said that there was an unloading fee of $200 and that they were sending a bill for the lease of the tanks. I kindly reminded them of last year they tried the same thing and I said to come and get your tanks but you never did and as I see it, you left the tanks here, so if you hit me with a lease, I will bill you for storage of your equipment on my property...they said they would get back to me.

bastards.
Click to expand...


I do believe there is some enviormental issues about pumping out of a tank and hauling a tank that is not 100% empty. Now if they do it right or just do it but if they were to remove the tank I would insist on following the rules.

Eric
 
Best thing I did was purchase my own tank. Found a used one with 200 gals of fuel for $400. 500gal.
 
kinsmanstoves said:
I do believe there is some enviormental issues about pumping out of a tank and hauling a tank that is not 100% empty. Now if they do it right or just do it but if they were to remove the tank I would insist on following the rules.

Eric
Click to expand...

Don't be too sure about that Eric after all they haul both empty and full tanks around all of the time (full in the LP world is 80% of the tanks capacity). Including that fill'em up truck.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
Don't be too sure about that Eric after all they haul both empty and full tanks around all of the time (full in the LP world is 80% of the tanks capacity). Including that fill'em up truck.
Click to expand...
The 1000 gal tank at my workplace was "venting" on a very hot summer day 3 years ago. The LP company sent a tech over who ordered the almost full (maybe too full, above 80%) removed. They did not offload anything, we just waited for the big boom as it was hoisted on to a truck. Didnt happen. Since then, they repainted the tanks white from deep green.
 
kinsmanstoves said:
I do believe there is some enviormental issues about pumping out of a tank and hauling a tank that is not 100% empty. Now if they do it right or just do it but if they were to remove the tank I would insist on following the rules.

Eric
Click to expand...
no real environmental issues unless they are backing across your septic tank.. they either use a small vapor compressor to pressure your tank from the bulk truck to push the liquid back to the bulk truck. The other method uses a suction method with less movable parts but more of a pain in the arse to use.

DOT doesn't allow anything over 2% over the road unless it's an emergency situation. But that doesn't man the shifty company man to take the screw mounted magnetic gauge face off.

propane_gauge.jpg
​
not that I was ever GUILTY of such a thing...​
 
kinsmanstoves said:
This why I heat with a pellet stove.

I have two LP hot water systems. One is an on demand mounted in a cabinet above the toilet in the main bathroom. It works the shower, bath sink, kitchen sink, and dish washer. The other is a standard 30 gallon for the laundry room and the kids full bathroom. We use approx one tank 325 gallon - 20% a year. We do have a forced air LP furnace but it has not ran in 5 years and the valve is shut off.

I got a bill in the mail for $71 for tank rental. I call the provider and they said I am not a high volume customer so I have to pay tank rental. Well I tell them I just hit 20% on the tank and would like to get a fill. The rate was quoted at $2.79. I told them to come and get their tank and credit me for the 20% or give me a price to buy the tank. The lady starts to stutter and asks me to expalin. I tell her the same thing and ask what enviormental procedure does she need to do to remove the lp and haul out an LP tank. She said she needs to talk to her boss and will call me back.

She calls back and says they would much rather sell me the tank for $450 then remove it but they can offer me a fill at $1.90 a gallon plus tax. I told her to fill it.

Why could they not just fill it at $1.90. I will have to remember this when I sell pellets and offer the same type of deal.
Click to expand...
 
$1.90 is a great deal to me, I was paying 3.89 an gallon with just my cooking stove, when I put in the gas log last November they brought me a 100 gallon tank and filled it for $3.09 a month later it went to $3.19 and it is still there. I don't know if i would have went with the recent pellet stove install if I was getting LPG for under 2 bucks a gallon.
 
If you decide to buy your tank make sure you get a letter/bill of sale. Around here gas companies won't fill a tank unless you lease from them or can prove ownership. They also charge more if you own the tank. I own my tank and just use LP for the BBQ and fireplace. LP is going for about $4.00/gallon. Put my pellet boiler in this year and stopped using the fireplace (as well as oil boiler). My propane and oil tanks are burried. According to my insurance company, the issue with removal is soil contamination: in many states if one of the suppliers removes the tank they have to file some sort of report indicating they tested for leaks and soil contamination. If they found any contaminaton they have to claim they mitigated. Once my tanks are empty I plan to pull them out of the ground. While I really don't want to look at them, I was told by my agent that many companies won't write a new homeowners insurance policy if you have underground oil or propane tanks. When I sold my folks place in New Jersey I had to have the burried tank tested and certified prior to closing. Neighbor had to have "soil contamination" cleaned before they could sell their house. Cost them about $35,000.
 
GrahamInVa said:
$1.90 is a awesome price. I paid $3.80 back in November.
Click to expand...

$3.80! I only wish, we are customers of one of the biggest LP crooks in the industry, they were just investigated by the state for bad business practices. We always pay between $4.00 - $4.85 a gallon every fill up, and it swings up and down every month. We are also a very low volume customer, using it only for hot water and the oven.

We will call and complain, they will lower it by 50 cents, then next month it's back up to what it was before or higher. We also pay about $50.00 a year to rent the tank.
 
A lot of folks own their tanks around here. We don't have yearly lease fees, but if its their tank you pay more per gallon. So I guess its the same as a lease fee, execpt the more gallons you consume the more fee you pay. Which is why I own my tank. Any local company will fill it. That always pi$$ed me off cause I felt like I was getting penalized for being a good customer. I shop around when the time comes.
 
oil vs propane...
oil is liquid..leaks as a liquid
LP is delivered as a liquid but is used as a pressurized vapor

NJ is a whole another ballgame..
 
Thrifty LP will fill a tank from $1.80 to $2.00 a gallon if you have your own tank. They do not check on ownership.
 
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