Seasoning time for downed wood

BrianK · Mar 24, 2012

Hi folks,
Quick question...does it take less time for wood to season that's been down for a year or more, or is it mostly or entirely dependent on when it is C/S/S?

I'm going to be working over the coming weeks on a stack of trunks that was cut early last summer. I'm told its a mix of hardwoods including ash, cherry, oak and maple (frankly, I'm not yet sure what's in this stack, my wood ID skills are not yet up to speed), and I'm wondering if any of it will be ready for the coming season.

thewoodlands · Mar 24, 2012

Your ash & cherry would be the first to be seasoned if any.
zap

Snotrocket · Mar 24, 2012

In my opinion if you get that all spit and stacked in the next couple weeks it will be ready to burn this coming winter.

BrianK · Mar 24, 2012

Any idea what kind of wood is in there just from looking at the photo?

DexterDay · Mar 24, 2012

The front 2 logs look like Silver Maple. That along with any Ash and Cherry (as Zap stated), will definitely be ready for next year. The only species that would not, is any Oak.

Get it C/S/S A.S.A.P and you will be in fantastic shape.

BrianK · Mar 24, 2012

DexterDay said:
The front 2 logs look like Silver Maple. That along with any Ash and Cherry (as Zap stated), will definitely be ready for next year. The only species that would not, is any Oak.

Get it C/S/S A.S.A.P and you will be in fantastic shape.

Great, thanks.

Doing a search tonight, I found an interesting discussion from the Arborist site from a couple years ago with a number of interesting comments:

There are people who insist that wood should be dried (seasoned) for at least one or two years. Experimental evidence has established that that is nearly always unnecessary, as long as the pieces of wood are cut to length and stacked. Natural airflows through the stack, and particularly through the cut cells of the pieces of wood themselves, dries them sooner than that. Experimental evidence has established that one-foot long cut pieces generally dry to acceptable levels in just two or three months. Two-foot long cut pieces take about six or seven months for similar acceptability. Four-foot long cut pieces DO require at least a year.

Associated with this, covering the woodpile with a tarp slightly improves this, but probably not enough to make the expense of a tarp worthwhile, except in a climate where rain and very high humidity is common. Similarly, split pieces of wood tend to dry slightly faster than full diameter logs, but again by minimal amounts.

Speaking as a 48 year old man that has about 30 years of using wood as a sole heat source I agree with almost all that was said. Splitting has minimal effect on dry time as the wood is just a bunch of tubes that run with the grain. Also concerning the tubal nature of wood, the shorter it is cut the faster it cures. You can cure a 2" cookie in a couple of weeks.

In my experience tarps are good for the fall and winter when there is lots of rain and snow. I've used tarps once.

In my neck of the woods the best species of wood to cut and burn tomorrow is cherry. I don't mean orchard trees and I am talking about trees that are cut in the winter.

I know that some climates and conditions effect wood curing. Throwing green wood in the basement in May invites mold and SLOW curing. If I do this I have to leave windows open and a fan going to have any hope of having it ready for winter. A buddy of mine lives in the trees on a small lake surrounded by swampy ground. Constant shade, little wind, and high humidity. My wood cures faster than his because mine is stacked in the sun on a hill that divides two watersheds surrounded by fields.
Plenty-"O"-Wind.

Nine months is a long time. Around here I discount Nov. Dec. Jan. Feb. and March as months of curing time. That only leaves seven months in a year for curing. Having said that, if I cut trees down in January and February when the moisture content is low, then cut them up by June, I'm good to go come October. That's only 4 or five months dry time. Basically when I have time my wood get's what most people call two years. That's two summers dry time which may only be nine of my curing months if I'm working in August. The wood I burn is 24" long so I need more time than others using 14"-18" wood.

The time of year that the tree is cut down has a major effect on curing time. Curing time starts when the wood is cut to length. Shade coupled with low temps/high humidity and lack of wind extends dry time.

Locust Post · Mar 24, 2012

I would have to disagree with a lot of those statements from the "other site" that you speak of. Splits dry much better than rounds because you are exposing the cells of the wood more. This subject has been discussed over and over again on here. Wood really starts to dry well once split and a good year is always best 2 years is even better. As has already been stated in your situation the Ash and Cherry should be relatively good if c/s/s now and I would say the Maple should do ok. I would suggest split on the smaller side for splits and stack it in single rows with lots of wind exposure. If you want to cover it wait until late Fall.

ScotO · Mar 25, 2012

Yeah Brian, you definitely want to season your oaks AT LEAST two years after you split them. If you want an in-depth description from a true wood seasoning pro, talk to Backwoods Savage. Drier wood gives off more heat and burns MUCH MUCH cleaner than damp wood. I've seen unsplit rounds hold quite a bit of moisture for YEARS AND YEARS. So it pays to get your wood C/S/S as soon as you possibly can.

NH_Wood · Mar 25, 2012

Lots of variation here and no answer that fits all situations. I've had log length red maple sit off the ground in the woods for a couple years, and it had certainly dried a lot. On the other hand, same situation with red oak and I might as well had dropped it a few months before. As for splits and rounds drying as the same rate - all else equal, splits dry faster. And as for drying time, one thing to keep in might is the type of stove that the person is using. If the person quoted from the other site has an old smoke dragon, he can likely burn a lot of less than ideal wood. The newer air tight stoves really like dry wood to burn efficiently, throw good heat, create less creosote, and make starting and maintaining fires so much easier. Because of this, most of us recommend giving the wood a much longer time to dry than was suggested by the quote. Will some wood be ready earlier? Probably. Will all of the wood be ideal if left to dry in a good location for 2 or more years - absolutely (I give oak even longer). We tend to err on the side of time here - saves a lot of hassle and problems with burning wood. Cheers!

ScotO · Mar 25, 2012

As for the pic of your log pile Brian, I see several red oaks in the front and some silver maples on the top of that pile. You have a good variety of wood there. It would pay you to try and scrounge some standing dead oak and maple this spring and summer if you can, standing dead trees will season a lot faster than ones on the ground.

BrianK · Mar 25, 2012

Scotty Overkill said:
As for the pic of your log pile Brian, I see several red oaks in the front and some silver maples on the top of that pile. You have a good variety of wood there. It would pay you to try and scrounge some standing dead oak and maple this spring and summer if you can, standing dead trees will season a lot faster than ones on the ground.

There is a huge standing dead oak at my dad's place in Hollidaysburg that I'll be working on this spring. Honestly it's so big I'm not even comfortable trying to drop it so I have not tried to tackle it yet. Fortunately there's plenty of space to drop it.

DexterDay · Mar 25, 2012

The term "Seasoned" should be taken lightly... Its all about the M/C of the wood. But the way to ensure your M/C is low? Is to.let the wood sit C/S/S for at least one year (2-3 for Oak).

By getting a couple years ahead, this will eliminate any worries of wet wood. Get to work and you will have some Primo Product come Oct-Nov this year.

ScotO · Mar 25, 2012

BrianK said:
There is a huge standing dead oak at my dad's place in Hollidaysburg that I'll be working on this spring. Honestly it's so big I'm not even comfortable trying to drop it so I have not tried to tackle it yet. Fortunately there's plenty of space to drop it.

If you need a hand, send me a message. I'll help you drop it and buck it up. It'll be on me. I'm right up the road and I do trees on the side.

woodsmaster · Mar 25, 2012

Not only does it need split it needs to be off the ground. Those are probably pretty good being at the top of a hill, but they will still suck some moisture out of the ground.

BrianK · Mar 25, 2012

woodsmaster said:
Not only does it need split it needs to be off the ground. Those are probably pretty good being at the top of a hill, but they will still suck some moisture out of the ground.

It is "the top of a hill" too. This wood is at an elevation of about 2250' up here in the Laurel Highlands of west central PA, which isn't much by western standards but a good height here in the east. It's right on the crown of the plateau so it's been getting plenty of up slope wind over the past year.

BrianK · Mar 25, 2012

Scotty Overkill said:
If you need a hand, send me a message. I'll help you drop it and buck it up. It'll be on me. I'm right up the road and I do trees on the side.

Thanks Scotty! I will definitely take you up on your kind offer sometime this spring.

Wood Duck · Mar 25, 2012

I agree with Scotty that the two big logs in front are Red Oak. I see other woods like some maple in the pile, but it is hard for me to tell exactly what type from the picture.

Backwoods Savage · Mar 25, 2012

For sure some nice red oak and maple in that stack.

As for drying time, there is no cut and dried (pun intended) way to determine what you are asking. The logs are down, some touching ground and some not touching. There can and probably will be a tremendous difference between some of those logs of the same type. We've cut into dead oak that has been down and the danged stuff had more moisture than if you'd have cut it green. I've never cut an oak and had it dry enough to burn that first year.

On the other hand, I have some soft maple that are down now. I cut them down a couple years ago but never cut them up. I can cut them up now though and could burn them right away. Different wood; different dry time. It still pays though to assume downed wood will take as long to dry as fresh cut and sometimes longer. However, if the downed wood is not touching the ground, it will be much better quality.

I guess to answer the quotes from the other forum, you can do what you wish. The one fellow is 48 years old and has been burning wood for 30 years. Okay, he has some experience. What we don't know is if that is 30 years experience or 1 year of experience done 30 times! We find that a lot. Also one has to realize that even in my case where I've burned a bit longer, I still had some experimenting to do once we got an epa stove. They are just a different animal than the old stoves, so all those years of experience are nice but one still has much to learn. I, for one, hope I do not stop learning, but one thing I have learned that has never failed is to make sure your wood is good and dry. It should be dry enough that you do not have to resort to checking it with a meter. You should know when it is ready to burn but that does come with experience.

BrianK · Mar 25, 2012

Backwoods Savage said:
I, for one, hope I do not stop learning, but one thing I have learned that has never failed is to make sure your wood is good and dry. It should be dry enough that you do not have to resort to checking it with a meter. You should know when it is ready to burn but that does come with experience.

Thanks Dennis. I truly appreciate all the feedback on this thread. I simply posted the quotes from the other site as fodder for discussion.

We have a huge standing dead oak at my dad's place. Its been dead several seasons already, two or three at least, and I was over it his place sizing it up again this evening.

Any ideas how long dead standing oak will need to season, or is it more a matter of cutting it down and C/S/S and play it by ear?

Backwoods Savage · Mar 25, 2012

BrianK said:
Thanks Dennis. I truly appreciate all the feedback on this thread. I simply posted the quotes from the other site as fodder for discussion.

We have a huge standing dead oak at my dad's place. Its been dead several seasons already, two or three at least, and I was over it his place sizing it up again this evening.

Any ideas how long dead standing oak will need to season, or is it more a matter of cutting it down and C/S/S and play it by ear?

Likely that oak will have some punk all the way around and perhaps 2-3" thick. That alone will help hold any moisture in the rest of the tree. I've give it 2 years minimum for drying and possibly still stick to 3 years. You will not be sorry for waiting.

PapaDave · Mar 26, 2012

Brian, the guy on AS isn't completely wrong. The wood can dry to a level that it will burn in just a few months.
Or less.
I proved that when I first started burning. It took a LOT of effort to get the fire going, and it took a LOT of wood to produce an appreciable amount of heat. I got that wood about a month or so before burning, and it had JUST been c/s before delivery. Most of us know that story.
I have some oak (well, almost all oak) in the shed that was c/s/s back in '09 that still has a bit of sizzle. Not all of it, but some.
When I finally got the oak I have mostly DRY, it burns so much better that I've vowed to myself that come hell or high water, I don't EVER want to burn wood that hasn't been dried well.
Drying time can be dependent on many factors.
Your best bet, as has been said on this site longer than I've been here, is to get the wood you want to burn c/s/s ASAP. Then, wait. Or, you can get a MM.
If you don't want to get a MM, then wait. I'd give oak a minimum of 2 years. I've been burning 90-95% oak since '06 and that seems to be the least amount of time for it to be useful. Most here say the ash will dry pretty quick. I have no experience with ash or cherry.
I've found that wood that has been in log form for a while will dry quicker once c/s/s than fresh cut, as long as they've been off the ground. Don't have a timetable for ya. YMMV
HTH

Stegman · Mar 26, 2012

The wood I burned this year was a mix of ash and cherry that was delivered in phases through the spring and summer. The first two cords I burned were split and stacked in April/May and the wood burned fine. More recently I tapped into some stuff that was delivered in June and July and that still burned OK, though not quite as good. That included some maple, which might explain why it wasn't quite as dry.

smokinj · Mar 26, 2012

Scotty Overkill said:
If you need a hand, send me a message. I'll help you drop it and buck it up. It'll be on me. I'm right up the road and I do trees on the side.

Awesome!

qualityleashdog · Mar 27, 2012

I don't know what to believe when it comes to how long you should let wood season. I do believe in getting it split and stacked, and the more wind and sun, the better. I've been cutting oak right now, splitting and stacking it. I expect to be able to burn it 12-13 season. I also have elm and maple that I'm working on and mixing in my stacks. I believe anything I get css by May will be ready for next season, especially if I go FIFO on my stacks. I estimate I'll have six full cords ready by the end of April and be ready for burning next fall. I've got about three right now. Now about one cord of that, mostly oak, will be on the north side of my house, in the shade, getting only a rare north wind but also largely sheltered from the rains blowing from the south. Will there be a tradeoff in less wind and sun, but also less rain randomly saturating it? My plan is to get a moisture meter, test the different cords when I'm ready to burn and go with that. If the oak, as many say should not be ready to burn, is at the right moisture level, I'm going to burn it. Is the moisture meter reliable? I don't know. This forum is the first I've heard of them, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Any suggestions on how much to spend on one? I wouldn't want to cheap out and get something unreliable.

Realstone · Mar 27, 2012

qualityleashdog said:
I don't know what to believe when it comes to how long you should let wood season. I do believe in getting it split and stacked, and the more wind and sun, the better. I've been cutting oak right now, splitting and stacking it. I expect to be able to burn it 12-13 season. I also have elm and maple that I'm working on and mixing in my stacks. I believe anything I get css by May will be ready for next season, especially if I go FIFO on my stacks. I estimate I'll have six full cords ready by the end of April and be ready for burning next fall. I've got about three right now. Now about one cord of that, mostly oak, will be on the north side of my house, in the shade, getting only a rare north wind but also largely sheltered from the rains blowing from the south. Will there be a tradeoff in less wind and sun, but also less rain randomly saturating it? My plan is to get a moisture meter, test the different cords when I'm ready to burn and go with that. If the oak, as many say should not be ready to burn, is at the right moisture level, I'm going to burn it. Is the moisture meter reliable? I don't know. This forum is the first I've heard of them, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Any suggestions on how much to spend on one? I wouldn't want to cheap out and get something unreliable.

From what I understand, there are two types of drying out for wood. One is just the general moisture of the wood itself and is subject to rain, humidity etc. and the other has to do with the cells releasing their moisture. The second type is probably what is referred to seasoning. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this one. So if what I understand is correct, the stack on the north side may take a bit longer to cure than the unsheltered stacks facing a sunnier, windier direction. But this is JMO.

As for the MM, can't help you there, but try 'The Gear' forum on this site.

Seasoning time for downed wood

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