Controlling piping break from filling basement with 2000 gal.

700renegade said:

Has anyone thought up a reasonable way to clamp off that flow?

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Maybe I'm missing something, but I just put a quality swing check on the return-to-storage line.

--ewd

What about some leak detection switches in your basement. Wire them up so it would shut off your circulator and cut the power to some AutoMag valves?

Just food for thought but regardless of having storage if you get a leak in the house and have a make-up water valve it will continue to add water to your boiler(s) which will continue to heat it giving the same result.

jpassardi said:

Just food for thought but regardless of having storage if you get a leak in the house and have a make-up water valve it will continue to add water to your boiler(s) which will continue to heat it giving the same result.

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Very true and could put more than 2000 gals in the basement

Also depends on where in the entire system the leak springs from.

OOoooookaaay. You guys have me concerned. Now what?

jpassardi said:

Just food for thought but regardless of having storage if you get a leak in the house and have a make-up water valve it will continue to add water to your boiler(s) which will continue to heat it giving the same result.

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It seems unwise to me not to keep the fill-water circuit valved-off when not filling the system.

A good burn routine would include: Check storage temperature, check system pressure, light fire, load firewood. If system pressure is lower than expected for the approximate storage temperature, then something needs to be fixed before allowing more water into the system.

--ewd

700renegade said:

That covers the return, but there would still need to be something to keep water from blowing thru the circulator ( an IFC check would do little to hold back 15 psi + 16' tank head pressure ).

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The circulator is pumping from top of storage through load and back to bottom of storage, so the check valve keeps water from draining back through the return-to-storage piping.

If there is a leak in the house then as soon as the expansion tank empties then there is no more water that can flow rapidly towards the house. The piping to top of storage can continue to drain by glugging air back towards the tank, but as soon as there is air in the top of storage then the episode is over.

But, don't you want water to flow out of the bottom of storage while charging, but in when drawing from storage? So wouldn't a check there mess one or the other up?

EDIT: Unless, I guess, you have two pipes each going one way. Getting late...

My first and last reaction to this question on pipe break is that if this is a concern, disconnect the storage and boiler immediately and shut off all water to the house. A break in the water lines could spring a leak anywhere, spewing 50 psi or greater water throughout the entire house, endlessly when no one is at home, and filling the entire house with water leaking from windows and doors and ultimately the chimney. Also disconnect any LP or natural gas lines, as a break could fill the house with gas with an explosion that would make a water leak look like a stroll on the beach. And disconnect the electric power, as a break in 240v line could cause a fire and burn the house down, melt the pex, and cause a water leakage (that just might put out the fire).

Boiler water is less than 30 psi, and if pipe breakage is the concern, hire a competent plumber to do a first class job and rest easy. Who has heard of pex literally breaking in a less than 30 psi situation? I never have. But again, if this is your concern, rip out the pex and put in black iron pipe, then rest easy. Or perhaps put the pex inside of black iron pipe so there is double wall protection.

No matter how much redundancy you add , the end of time is in Dec. Just make sure you burn all your wood before then.

I can eliminate the 30psi blowoff valves,

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You nailed it to the wall ... the 30 psi blowoff valve is exactly the protection you need. Rest easy.

700renegade said:

Wow - I guess I'll have to eliminate my insane desire for an inexpensive precaution.

By extension, using this new logic, I can eliminate the 30psi blowoff valves, circuit breakers on my electrical, and all the other safety devices that I would have purchased for my system. Also, think of all the time I'll save by never having to sweep my chimney again.

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Make sure to have some storage if your never going to sweep your chimminey. I've never swept mine and it looks great ! I'd probably keep the circuit breakers. lol

The first question I asked myself was "I wonder what he has to stop the potable water flow when the vanity sink line bursts" (like my neighbor's did several years ago). Sometimes we worry too much. That said, I am going to have a threshold around my storage which will channel any leakage to my sump pump.

700renegade said:

Wow - I guess I'll have to eliminate my insane desire for an inexpensive precaution.

By extension, using this new logic, I can eliminate the 30psi blowoff valves, circuit breakers on my electrical, and all the other safety devices that I would have purchased for my system. Also, think of all the time I'll save by never having to sweep my chimney again.

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Not a fair comparison, those safety guards are required to keep said mechanical/electrical systems from exceeding their design parameters, with them and a professionally installed system (whether it be mechanical or electrical) you should have nothing to worry about. Sure you might get a drip or leak, but under very few circumstances would you have a full blown failure which would cause your entire storage to drain into your basement. I have been plumbing and pipe fitting for well over a decade and have only seen a couple catastrophic failures of piping systems. They have all been related to the pipes freezing.

I would be more worried about the line to my washing machine rotting out and failing, seen this happen quite a few times over the years. Washing machine hoses should be changed every 5 years or so (as your manual suggests). Plastic water lines to refrigerators I have also seen occasionally go as well. Always seem to go shortly after leaving for work rather then shortly before getting home.

Just a story to share, buddy of mine just up the road, works 3 weeks away, then is home for a week, house sits empty and no one checks on it. His very old galvanized expansion tank sprung a leak (the thing should have been upgraded years ago), nothing huge, just a pencil sized stream of water, my guess is it ran for the better part of three weeks with the amount of water in his finished basement (no sump pump either) He now turns his pump off when he leaves