I'm gonna have to try this....

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ScotO

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Was milling through the morning threads on AS this morning when I stumbled onto a simple solution to the ethanol problems we face with our OPE. Read this thread and think about it. Halfway into this thread there is a simple formula to remove the ethanol from your gas. It makes perfect sense, I'm gonna do an experiment tomorrow to see how it works.

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/195132.htm
 
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The poster states: "I mix 2 quarts of water w/ 5 gallons of RUG (regular unleaded gas) in a clear container with a drain valve in the bottom of it. Shake it up good, come back tomorrow, you'll see a clear separation between the two, the gas is on top.

Drain it!

Done."
 
I watched in science class once a long long long time ago the teacher pour alcohol of a certian amount(we'll say 2oz) into water of a certian amount (we'll say 2oz) and didnt come up with 4 oz. The molecules fit inbetween the molecules of water. Thats how gas water treatments work. Look at the bottles an almost all of them are some form of alcohol. Its still there with them but it helps burn them off.
 
So, I guess to know if this worked is when you drain to the separation line you wind up with more than 2 qts of fluid?
 
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Threads like this (and the one at AS) make me grateful for

04092012108.jpg

Where I buy my gas...
 
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Muncy, you are correct. Ethan, you are a lucky dog if you still have real gasoline at the local gas station! Don't let the federal government know that! ;)
 
Scotty Overkill said:
The poster states: "I mix 2 quarts of water w/ 5 gallons of RUG (regular unleaded gas) in a clear container with a drain valve in the bottom of it. Shake it up good, come back tomorrow, you'll see a clear separation between the two, the gas is on top.

Drain it!

Done."
Click to expand...

I shake the can before every fill-up. Just a good habbit!
 
Scotty Overkill said:
The poster states: "I mix 2 quarts of water w/ 5 gallons of RUG (regular unleaded gas) in a clear container with a drain valve in the bottom of it. Shake it up good, come back tomorrow, you'll see a clear separation between the two, the gas is on top.

Drain it!

Done."
Click to expand...


He's causing the fuel to undergo Phase Separation. Yeah it pulls the ethanol out of the fuel but it also ruins it. The "gas" you're left with is going to be low-octane. Ethanol gives auto fuel a boost in it's octane rating.

Wonder if you could pump the octane rating back up with an additive? Then what's the fuel quality like?

This is crazy. Reminds me of prohibition (no, I'm not anywhere near that old...) where people would create their own custom, often toxic, concoctions.
 
MasterMech said:
He's causing the fuel to undergo Phase Separation. Yeah it pulls the ethanol out of the fuel but it also ruins it. The "gas" you're left with is going to be low-octane. Ethanol gives auto fuel a boost in it's octane rating.

Wonder if you could pump the octane rating back up with an additive? Then what's the fuel quality like?

This is crazy. Reminds me of prohibition (no, I'm not anywhere near that old...) where people would create their own custom, often toxic, concoctions.
Click to expand...
I'm going to try it, what can it hurt? The guy who posted the idea on AS has been using it for several years. Its a simple idea that makes perfect sense. You're exactly right, it is intentional phase separation, and I'm sure you can use an octane booster to make it a little more "hi-test".
 
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Guess this is as good a place as any to post this . . .

Watch the video. Take the easy quiz. Pehaps win free stuff. I found it informative and worth the few minutes to watch the video.

http://ethanol.husqvarna.com/
 
firefighterjake said:
Guess this is as good a place as any to post this . . .

Watch the video. Take the easy quiz. Pehaps win free stuff. I found it informative and worth the few minutes to watch the video.

http://ethanol.husqvarna.com/
Click to expand...
Good info, FFJ, but did you see where they say in the video that E15 is unacceptable to use in OPE? That is what the EPA just OK'd as standard fuel in the US. All the more reason to figure out a way to get the ethanol out of your gas.
 
Scotty Overkill said:
Muncy, you are correct. Ethan, you are a lucky dog if you still have real gasoline at the local gas station! Don't let the federal government know that! ;)
Click to expand...
Thats at the local safeway gas station. Id guess about 30% of the stations around here (Rapid City, SD) are 100% gas all grades and 95% of the stations are 100% gas in 91 octane.
 
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Guys, guys, several posters on here said they have never had a fuel related problem with their OPE. Its all in our heads, its all good. Todays fuels are way better than they used to be and they would never go back. Those of us that complain about ethanol don't know what we are talking about. ;)
 
wkpoor said:
Guys, guys, several posters on here said they have never had a fuel related problem with their OPE. Its all in our heads, its all good. Todays fuels are way better than they used to be and they would never go back. Those of us that complain about ethanol don't know what we are talking about. ;)
Click to expand...
Wikipedia describes it as mass hysteria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria or Mass psychogenic illness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_psychogenic_illness
A common manifestation of mass hysteria occurs when a group of people believe they are suffering from a similar disease or ailment. Sometimes referred to as mass psychogenic illness or epidemic hysteria, there is a clear preponderance of female victims.
Click to expand...
 
It's easy to live life based on beliefs, superstition, rumor and fantastic claims than to rely on facts, science, and rational actions. Why let facts get in the way of what we believe? The latest medical "cure," the hottest energy from nothing craze, the pill that dissolves fat and turns a couch potato into a six pack (of beer?), all let us live without any responsibility for our own well being or the well being of our lowly planet -- and let us blame everyone else for not being responsible, blame the govt for our own failures, blame, blame and blame. Honesty and rational thinking are in short supply.
 
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Sorry guys, not trying to start a war here. But the facts about ethanol 'enriched' gas are there, and the stuff is garbage for older internal combustion engines. Even modern engines, if ran on 'pure' gasoline, would get much better mileage. Ethanol being in the gas lessens the efficiency of almost every motor it is put into, and that means you need more fuel to run said engine. Not to mention the damage it does to a lot of the rubber and gasket material in older engines. Watch the video link developed by Husqvarna that FirefighterJake put in his post above....it clearly states that fuels rated E15-up are NOT TO BE USED IN SMALL ENGINES. And our beloved government just passed the bill that will allow E15 fuels to replace E10. I really don't care if you call me crazy or not, the facts are right there to see. Go ahead and ruin your small engines, mine will be good to go because I will be removing the ethanol from my gas.
 
I never had problems with E-10 in OPE.
I do track mileage for my vehicles with every fill-up. There is a definate difference in economy and performance for the worse with E-10. I proved it both with hand calculations and the digital milage indicator in my car. About -2 MPG with my truck and about -1.5 MPG with my 300C. Both average mid teens with combined driving so thats around 10%.
If I got better economy or better performance with E-10, I would be all for it, but I don't. No hysteria, superstition, or imagined problems here, actual documented proof ethanol polluted gas is crap. Don't worry about planet earth, it is and will be fine. The globalists just need something everyone on the planet would be concerned about to draw them to a common cause and produce unity. It's all BS.


Removing the ethanol with water will leave you with about 85 octane "fuel". Proceed carefully. Not sure if there is anything sold that would get it back to 87 and be cost effective. Most octane boosters will raise it by a few points, not whole numbers.
There are no ethanol free gas in PA. PA built an ethanol production plant and all gas sold in the state must be at least E-10, most likely because the plant construction and operation is/was gov't subsidized. Stickers are not required on the pumps either in PA. Only way is to test with water.
 
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kettensäge said:
I never had problems with E-10 in OPE.
I do track mileage for my vehicles with every fill-up. There is a definate difference in economy and performance for the worse with E-10. I proved it both with hand calculations and the digital milage indicator in my car. About -2 MPG with my truck and about -1.5 MPG with my 300C. Both average mid teens with combined driving so thats around 10%.
If I got better economy or better performance with E-10, I would be all for it, but I don't. No hysteria, superstition, or imagined problems here, actual documented proof ethanol polluted gas is crap. Don't worry about planet earth, it is and will be fine. The globalists just need something everyone on the planet would be concerned about to draw them to a common cause and produce unity. It's all BS.


Removing the ethanol with water will leave you with about 85 octane "fuel". Proceed carefully. Not sure if there is anything sold that would get it back to 87 and be cost effective. Most octane boosters will raise it by a few points, not whole numbers.
There are no ethanol free gas in PA. PA built an ethanol production plant and all gas sold in the state must be at least E-10, most likely because the plant construction and operation is/was gov't subsidized. Stickers are not required on the pumps either in PA. Only way is to test with water.
Click to expand...

I'm going to start out with E10 at 94 octane, see where I end up from there. Should still be above 87 octane nonetheless. Wait until a year or two when we are all forced to use E15 gas. I just figure (for myself anyway) that it is time to try and figure out a way to protect my equipment, esp. when they put the E15 out there. I'm not talking about taking the ethanol out of all my gas for my cars (wifes car is E85 compatable), I'm talking about my OPE that will be destroyed using it.
 
Facinating...... There may be something to the gas not being good to run W/O alcohol. My buddy hauls gas to service stations, and he inquired about getting gas W/O the ethanol in it. (It gets added when it goes into his truck, 1st the alcohol, then the gas, separately.) He was a told it would't be good to run with no ethanol in it.

However.......what if you started with a gallon of high-test, removed the alcohol as described above, and re-mixed it with another gallon of high-test? Would that not leave you with something relatively high octane, and only containing 5% alcohol?

Also as an interesting side note, I have another buddy that likes the old Dolmar Sachs saws, and he uses 100+ octane Low Lead gas he gets from airports. No Alcohol....His saws run like crap, not sure if it's the gas, though......any comments on this?
 
clr8ter said:
Facinating...... There may be something to the gas not being good to run W/O alcohol. My buddy hauls gas to service stations, and he inquired about getting gas W/O the ethanol in it. (It gets added when it goes into his truck, 1st the alcohol, then the gas, separately.) He was a told it would't be good to run with no ethanol in it.

However.......what if you started with a gallon of high-test, removed the alcohol as described above, and re-mixed it with another gallon of high-test? Would that not leave you with something relatively high octane, and only containing 5% alcohol?

Also as an interesting side note, I have another buddy that likes the old Dolmar Sachs saws, and he uses 100+ octane Low Lead gas he gets from airports. No Alcohol....His saws run like crap, not sure if it's the gas, though......any comments on this?
Click to expand...
the reason it wouldn't run good with no ethanol is because of the lower octane. If you start out with 94 octane E10 and remove the ethanol, you should end up with something above 87 or so octane, that would be sufficient, I would believe. your buddy's saws could be worn out, or in need of tune-ups, because if he's running AvGas in them like you say he is, they should run like ***** apes.......I know when I run AvGas I have to re-tune my saws, and let me tell you there is a NOTICEABLE difference in performance, BIG TIME......wait til a year or two when E15 is mandatory, say bye-bye to your chainsaws unless they start selling off-road gasoline....
 
There's a Liberty gas station in Fulks Run, VA, that sells no-ethanol gasoline. I prefer my ethanol from the local ABC store.
 
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Read the AS link. It occurred to me while reading it that alcohol can hold water in suspension, even in gasoline. Now I've always been told that running water through your engine is one of the worst things you can do to it. Is it not the same thing, even though the water is held in suspension?
 
Realstone said:
Read the AS link. It occurred to me while reading it that alcohol can hold water in suspension, even in gasoline. Now I've always been told that running water through your engine is one of the worst things you can do to it. Is it not the same thing, even though the water is held in suspension?
Click to expand...
not entirely, as alcohol will only pull in water if it is exposed to it (I.E. humid ambient air, or water in the underground tank at the gas station, etc. But, alcohol is also a solvent, and very hard on other parts in the engine. I'll do my experiment when I get a chance and touch back on this subject. I just spent the past two days dealing with one of my little Stihl 015's, had it torn down all the way to the roller bearings in the connecting rod........finally got it back together this evening and working the bugs out of the carb (probably an ethanol issue, we'll save that for another post!)
 
Realstone said:
Read the AS link. It occurred to me while reading it that alcohol can hold water in suspension, even in gasoline. Now I've always been told that running water through your engine is one of the worst things you can do to it. Is it not the same thing, even though the water is held in suspension?
Click to expand...

Very small amounts of water are not usually a problem. Hell, back in the day, many engines (especially kerosene0 actually intentionally introduced water to control pre-ignition. Now the turbo/supercharger guys are running methanol/water injection on high-boost engines to control preignition and cool the intake charge. Large amounts of water create insane cylinder pressures by flashing to steam. Major damage can result and diesels are particularly vulnerable due to their injection systems and already high cylinder pressures.

Diesel fuel is hygroscopic just like alchohol (ethanol) is. Small amounts of water that can be absorbed and carried by the fuel will not cause harm but all hell breaks loose when that capacity is exceeded and ethanol phase-separates or diesel just can't hold anymore and straight water is injected into a running cylinder.

Ethanol blended fuels won't play nice with Scotty's equipment 'cause he doesn't believe in saws built less than 30 years ago. ;) Viton and other alchohol resisant materials in fuel lines and diaphram materials have made newer equipment more ethanol friendly but the moisture/storage issues remain.
 
Good description from both of you, thanks. Scotty, don't you risk carrying water into your cylinders by adding the water to the gasoline either by suspension in the gas or the alcohol? But perhaps I don't understand the process fully. Anyway, on a similar note, I have read that ethanol can cause vapour lock in aircraft at altitude. Source here.
 
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