So I have a 2 cylinder Kubota engine that I haven't really figured out how to start "quick." Right now its always 50+ degrees out. So here is what I do and where I am confused. What I do: turn key to glow for 10 seconds, set throttle somewhere, turn key to start and it cranks and cranks for a while, its puffing smoke the whole time and it often sounds like it wants to go but it doesn't, I keep holding key until it fires. I found out that every time it sounds like it wants to go that I should hit the glow plugs for like 10 more seconds and try again...this helps a great deal but it still doesn't start right up like a Cummins will without glowplugs or preheating in 20 degrees. So what am I doing wrong? Where should the throttle be set for starting? Yeah its older and leaks a little here and there but runs well once started and I am sure there are lots of things that could be done to fine tune it but I am just trying to refine my technique not so much spend time on working on the engine.
Kubota Diesel Starting Tips?
- Thread starter NoPaint
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Set throttle to 1/2-WOT and glow for 10-12 secs should be fine. Once it catches, pull the throttle down to idle ish, don't let it run up to the governor with a cold motor.
Halligan
Feeling the Heat
I would start by checking the glow plugs and glow plug relay to make sure they are functioning properly. Even one bad glow plug could give you a hard start condition.
Of course if you have a Mrs. NoPaint you could just take her hairdrier and use it like a Binford Tool Hot Air 2000 forced induction Kubota starter
.
Of course if you have a Mrs. NoPaint you could just take her hairdrier and use it like a Binford Tool Hot Air 2000 forced induction Kubota starter
.Yeah some are just super cold blooded. I rented a 7500lb compactor this weekend and they told me don't let it get cold. I think we used 1/2 a can of ether getting it fired up to get on my trailer. Wasn't cold outside either, somewhere around 45*ish!
Gotta love the Cummins with the "grid heater" vs. the "glow plugs"
!!
A 1-2 second blast of ether will start that bad-boy up no problem. At least until you get the starting problem figured out.
!!A 1-2 second blast of ether will start that bad-boy up no problem. At least until you get the starting problem figured out.
salecker
Minister of Fire
Hi No Paint
How long does it sit befor you have to restart?
If the glows are working i would be looking for a leak in the fuel system.The leak could be anywhere,causing air to enter the filter/injection pump.Is the smoke whitish?Thats usally a sign of air in fuel.I have a older GM diesel,used to have an air leak issue and acted just like yours.I used about 4psi preasure in the tank to find my leak.I never used the truck all winter this year,started this spring like i had been using it all year.
Good Luck
Thomas
How long does it sit befor you have to restart?
If the glows are working i would be looking for a leak in the fuel system.The leak could be anywhere,causing air to enter the filter/injection pump.Is the smoke whitish?Thats usally a sign of air in fuel.I have a older GM diesel,used to have an air leak issue and acted just like yours.I used about 4psi preasure in the tank to find my leak.I never used the truck all winter this year,started this spring like i had been using it all year.
Good Luck
Thomas
Flamestead
Feeling the Heat
The Kubota diesel's I've run don't require glow plugs at temps above freezing. I did have a Farmall that was cold blooded (literally anything less than an 80 degree day required glow plugs). I finally re-read the manual (you have a manual?), which said to use the glow plugs for up to a minute and a half in cool weather, and that did the trick. Also a strong battery to spin the starter fast resulted in much greater success.
Ether and glow plugs are a combination I shy away from.
Ether and glow plugs are a combination I shy away from.
I'd start by checking the glow plugs to make sure they operate properly. They do wear out eventually and they slowly get worse and worse until they leave you stranded on a cold morning.
Dirty/sticking injectors and low cranking speeds aren't going to help your cause either. This is the #1 most overlooked item on mechanically injected diesels with some hours/age on them. Injectors with a lousy spray pattern will still run ok but starting will be noticably more difficult. If new glow plugs don't help it fire the way you want then I'd take the injectors to a diesel service shop to get them serviced/rebuilt or replace them if that's more cost effective.
There is some poor advice on this thread regarding using ether to start this engine. You should NEVER use ether on a diesel that has another starting aid like glow plugs or a intake pre-heater (toaster!). That's a great way to lose some body hair at best or body parts at worst. Not to mention engine damage. If you intend to use the juice anyways, at least disable the glow-plug/pre-heater system.
Is this on a Kubota low-boy generator? They were very good units.
FWIW: That Kubota with indirect injection is never going to fire with the punch a Cummins does but it should crank and light pretty easy (<10 secs cranking after a 30 second glow).
Dirty/sticking injectors and low cranking speeds aren't going to help your cause either. This is the #1 most overlooked item on mechanically injected diesels with some hours/age on them. Injectors with a lousy spray pattern will still run ok but starting will be noticably more difficult. If new glow plugs don't help it fire the way you want then I'd take the injectors to a diesel service shop to get them serviced/rebuilt or replace them if that's more cost effective.
There is some poor advice on this thread regarding using ether to start this engine. You should NEVER use ether on a diesel that has another starting aid like glow plugs or a intake pre-heater (toaster!). That's a great way to lose some body hair at best or body parts at worst. Not to mention engine damage. If you intend to use the juice anyways, at least disable the glow-plug/pre-heater system.
Is this on a Kubota low-boy generator? They were very good units.
FWIW: That Kubota with indirect injection is never going to fire with the punch a Cummins does but it should crank and light pretty easy (<10 secs cranking after a 30 second glow).
Bigg_Redd
Minister of Fire
flyingcow
Minister of Fire
I agree, stay away from this unit with the ether. I wouldn't think you would need glow plugs at 50f outside. But this unit probably is old and has a few hours on it. Chances are, valves are "loose" and takes a bit to start. I've had old farm tractors that needed just a sniff of ether(they had no glow plugs) to start every time. Also, ether will erode the valves also. No lubrication. Once a machine gets "hooked" on ether, it needs it until a rebuild.
I would experiment with the hair dryer trick. If it works, you're all set to go. Get a good old fashioned hot unit.
I would experiment with the hair dryer trick. If it works, you're all set to go. Get a good old fashioned hot unit.
salecker
Minister of Fire
Hi All
I actually have around a dozen diesels in various platforms,semis, skidder, loaders, excavator grader ect.
The makes range from cummins,isuzu,caterpiller,detriot.mack,and kabota, i use ether on them all,sometimes.Depending on temperature,lenght of time since they have been run.None of mine get hooked on ether.The thing to remember is to warm the engine with the glows then give it a wiff as you are turning it over.
I'v been using it in this way for many years,my one loader has been in my use since 1986,it's a 950 Cat,one of the first articulating ones never been rebuilt and i know that it will start at -20 without being plugged in with good batterys,that means using glowplugs and ether.
Up here ether is a way of life in the winter with a diesel.I have heard of storys of people blowing head gaskets using ether and glows,but i have never seen any.
Give a moron a good diesel and i'm sure they could screw it up.
Moderation,it just takes a sniff to give it the little extra to get them going,sometimes up here you only get the one chance to get it going.
That said if you are in a warm climate and the starting, fuel and glow system are in good condition you should have no need for ether.Up here it's just a part of life.
My money is on a air leak in the fuel system.
Do you have a preasure gauge on the fuel system?
Have you changed the filter recently?
Try installing a electric fuel pump in the line to the filter and preasure it up befor you start it,that way you will fill the system if it is draining back from an air leak.
The white smoke is allways a tell of air in your fuel system,unless it's smoking white after it's warmed up.Thats a different can of worms.
Good luck
Thomas
I actually have around a dozen diesels in various platforms,semis, skidder, loaders, excavator grader ect.
The makes range from cummins,isuzu,caterpiller,detriot.mack,and kabota, i use ether on them all,sometimes.Depending on temperature,lenght of time since they have been run.None of mine get hooked on ether.The thing to remember is to warm the engine with the glows then give it a wiff as you are turning it over.
I'v been using it in this way for many years,my one loader has been in my use since 1986,it's a 950 Cat,one of the first articulating ones never been rebuilt and i know that it will start at -20 without being plugged in with good batterys,that means using glowplugs and ether.
Up here ether is a way of life in the winter with a diesel.I have heard of storys of people blowing head gaskets using ether and glows,but i have never seen any.
Give a moron a good diesel and i'm sure they could screw it up.
Moderation,it just takes a sniff to give it the little extra to get them going,sometimes up here you only get the one chance to get it going.
That said if you are in a warm climate and the starting, fuel and glow system are in good condition you should have no need for ether.Up here it's just a part of life.
My money is on a air leak in the fuel system.
Do you have a preasure gauge on the fuel system?
Have you changed the filter recently?
Try installing a electric fuel pump in the line to the filter and preasure it up befor you start it,that way you will fill the system if it is draining back from an air leak.
The white smoke is allways a tell of air in your fuel system,unless it's smoking white after it's warmed up.Thats a different can of worms.
Good luck
Thomas
I agree. Where I mentioned using it on a compactor, the engine didn't have any cold starting aids. A friend blew the intake manifold apart on an excavator when the non working grid heater all of a sudden worked when there was a ton of ether that had been sprayed.
He's lucky to not be picking pieces of that manifold out of his skull. I've been around quite a few old farm tractors that were designed to use ether for cold starts. They have no other provisions for cold-starting and only a very quick shot is required.
I don't even use ether on gas engines. Carb cleaner is safer and works just as good. Helluva lot easier on engines too.
Snotrocket
Feeling the Heat
Gotta love the Cummins with the "grid heater" vs. the "glow plugs"
A 1-2 second blast of ether will start that bad-boy up no problem. At least until you get the starting problem figured out.
Ether on a diesel is a big no no.
I would check the glow plugs. Just because the light is on saying they're glowing it doesn't mean they are. If the glows are working fine it should fire right up especially at 50 degrees.
Plenty of equipment comes factory with ether cold start. Either it's an automatic system or it's manual and you push a button and it gives a shot of ether into the intake out of a small tank (about the size of a propane torch tank)
When it's -30* and the dozer NEEDS to start no one is worrying, oh this ether is going to ruin the engine.
When it's -30* and the dozer NEEDS to start no one is worrying, oh this ether is going to ruin the engine.
I am finding some of the new tier 4 compliant motors are tough starting, even the Cummings 4B.
I have a garden tractor with a D600 in it and it needs the glow plugs to start. After it warms up it will kick off but there's no way it will start with out the plugs.
You should be able to check your plugs with an OHM meter. Make sure you remove the wires before you test as you wont get a good reading when they're tied together.
K
You should be able to check your plugs with an OHM meter. Make sure you remove the wires before you test as you wont get a good reading when they're tied together.
K
Snotrocket
Feeling the Heat
That's true for certain kinds of equipment made 20 years ago and probably certain super size construction equipment.
It's not that way anymore, and using ether to start a small Kubota tractor when it's 50 degrees out is not good for it.
salecker
Minister of Fire
I'd say nate379 could use ether on any diesel regardless of temp without damage to it.Like i said up here if you have a diesel you have ether and you have used it at one time or another.My last fuel truck,671 detroit had the factory propane can system.My western star,3406b Cat had one,it's broke and the truck dosn't see much winter work.My 426 Cat backhoe has the same bottle,it's got a perkins in it.Theres three different manufactures with factory ether systems.
Hey mabey we could get Mythbusters to do an episode on the explosive ether,you know that they will get it to blow one way or another.
Lots of myths when it comes to diesels,not many people are around them everyday,i grew up around them,we had to generate our own power where i grew up,learned early the right timing of using ether,our power plants were hand crank to get them running.An ether lock will jar your teeth.There arn't to many days of the year that i don't have at least one diesel running,and there's only one that i havn't used ether on.
Anyhow this debate on ether isn't helping the OP get his to start better.
Nopaint have you had time to look into any of the systems,glow,fuel or cranking?It takes all three to be in good order for a diesel to start nice.
Right now my tow truck has a weak link,but it lives inside and i'm building my house so it has to wait.It takes a little extra cranking to fire,then it smokes white and struggles for a about 5 secs then the exhust cleans up and has the nice crisp diesel rattle,the cranking time gets longer as it sits.I know the glows are good,new and double check with a test light.I'd be willing to bet a weeks labour on my house that it is a leak in the fuel system.
Anyhow not trying to ruffle feathers,just trying to help and pass on what works.
Thomas
Hey mabey we could get Mythbusters to do an episode on the explosive ether,you know that they will get it to blow one way or another.
Lots of myths when it comes to diesels,not many people are around them everyday,i grew up around them,we had to generate our own power where i grew up,learned early the right timing of using ether,our power plants were hand crank to get them running.An ether lock will jar your teeth.There arn't to many days of the year that i don't have at least one diesel running,and there's only one that i havn't used ether on.
Anyhow this debate on ether isn't helping the OP get his to start better.
Nopaint have you had time to look into any of the systems,glow,fuel or cranking?It takes all three to be in good order for a diesel to start nice.
Right now my tow truck has a weak link,but it lives inside and i'm building my house so it has to wait.It takes a little extra cranking to fire,then it smokes white and struggles for a about 5 secs then the exhust cleans up and has the nice crisp diesel rattle,the cranking time gets longer as it sits.I know the glows are good,new and double check with a test light.I'd be willing to bet a weeks labour on my house that it is a leak in the fuel system.
Anyhow not trying to ruffle feathers,just trying to help and pass on what works.
Thomas
Not gonna keep argueing with you, but just to give you a background, I went to school for heavy equipment/diesel maintenance and have worked on many types of equipment, anything from little forklifts to huge dozers and excavators. I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm also not just talking out of my butt either.
OP it's too bad that your not closer to me cause I wouldn't mind at all taking a look at your tractor and helping you get this figured out. Might be simple as needing new glowplugs or perhaps the timing has slipped a bit. Or when the engines get a bunch of hours you lose some compression. It's one of those things where you spray a bit of ether in the morning vs rebuilding the motor.. for a while anyway. $5 can of spray is much cheaper!
The horror stories usually come from people that spray WAY too much or spray with working preheater (glow plugs, grid heater, etc). Just a few sec spray is all that should be used in most cases.
OP it's too bad that your not closer to me cause I wouldn't mind at all taking a look at your tractor and helping you get this figured out. Might be simple as needing new glowplugs or perhaps the timing has slipped a bit. Or when the engines get a bunch of hours you lose some compression. It's one of those things where you spray a bit of ether in the morning vs rebuilding the motor.. for a while anyway. $5 can of spray is much cheaper!
The horror stories usually come from people that spray WAY too much or spray with working preheater (glow plugs, grid heater, etc). Just a few sec spray is all that should be used in most cases.
This thread has run its course and isn't going anywhere but in circles now. Time to shut 'er down, I'd say.
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