I don't think I can fit an insert in here...

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RK05

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May 5, 2011
37
South West Ohio
I have been doing some research on inserts for the first floor fireplace of our ranch home. I think I have come to the conclusion that we may not be able to put one in due to the fireplace dimensions. At the front opening it measures roughly 30" wide by 27" height. The inner bricks then tapper in giving a 22" wide inner back at a depth of 19" at its deepest point.

I was looking at the Timberwolf EPI22 and the Century CW2500 but I think even with the CW2500 10" depth I would not be able to use it because it may still touch the inner bricks due to the tapper.

Here are two pics of what we have:

fba01e84.jpg


4f120bb5.jpg


Is there any inserts that have a rear tapper to them?

Thanks!
 
You could always go "freestanding stove in the fireplace" route....
 
I don't have the manuals out, but there are some shallow inserts and some that are not too wide. A Lopi Answer should easily fit. What is the width 13" in from the front?

How much heat are you hoping for here? Do you want a 24/7 burner or just an occasional fire.
 
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begreen said:
I don't have the manuals out, but there are some shallow inserts and some that are not too wide. A Lopi Answer should easily fit. What is the width 13" in from the front?

How much heat are you hoping for here? Do you want a 24/7 burner or just an occasional fire.
Click to expand...
I agree, check out the Lopi Answer as I had a similar issue.
Actually, a good idea besides measuring is to take a large piece of cardboard and cut it so it would fit inside your fireplace....you can then measure the lenght/width of the cardboard cutout to see what room you have to work with. (I did this as I was getting confused by the angles towards the back as my fireplace also tapered in from front to back. Good luck
 
begreen said:
I don't have the manuals out, but there are some shallow inserts and some that are not too wide. A Lopi Answer should easily fit. What is the width 13" in from the front?

How much heat are you hoping for here? Do you want a 24/7 burner or just an occasional fire.
Click to expand...

Not sure if I understand your question on the 13" but the hearth in front of the opening is I believe 18" but would have to measure to be sure.

We just plan to burn right now to give us a little break from our natural gas $$ and if we were to have a power failure during the winter. I don't think I have the time right now to get and cut wood to supply all the heating.

I can try the cardboard trick this weekend.
 
The Answer Insert is 13.5" deep, but only 23.5" wide. Measure the width of the fireplace at 13.5" from the front edge of the fireplace opening to see if you have 24" width there.

Also, the Buck 18 can be installed as an insert and it does have a tapered back to fit in your style fireplace. I'm pretty sure it would fit fine.
 
If the Lopi will fit, then the Enviro 1200 will fit. Enviro has a bigger firebox.
 
Good suggestion, I was wondering about the Enviro.
 
Can you remove some of the bricks at the back of the stove? When my Rainier was installed they removed some bricks at the side and back of the firebox to make it fit. There was enough brick in the chimney (it's an old house) so removing bricks wasn't an issue.

Hope this helps ...

Berardino
 
I understand now on the 13" measurement, will get some cardboard make a template and check that spec.

I'm not sure how much bricks are behind there. I have the flue for the hot water heater to the left of the fireplace so not sure if I removed anything if it will open that space up to it.

You guys have any places in mind to buy these suggested inserts from? I've found a few places online that has the price for the Lopi but not the VC. I was trying to stay as least expensive as possible in case we don't us it that much but it looks like I still may be able to do that with some of the inserts.
 
If a 1200 sq.ft. heater will suit your needs, the Pacific Energy Vista insert at http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacvisin.htm needs just 24" width at 15" depth. The VIsta is a flush-mount model, and will not require that you extend your existing 18" hearth.

If you need a 2000 sq.ft. heater, the Pacific Energy Super insert at http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsupins.htm needs just 21-3/4" width at 18" depth. About 6" of the Super stands outside the fireplace on the hearth, so you'd need to add 4" of floor protection in front of the existing hearth to accomodate this model.
 
How far does your hearth come out? You may be better off with a freestander especially if you want more heat in case of a power failure.
 
The hearth actually only comes out 15" but it is raised off the floor 12". Does it matter that the flooring in front of the hearth is wood? With where the fireplace is in the living room I don't know one how it would look if we needed to extend the hearth out and also how it would affect the flow of traffic through the room.
 
To be code compliant there should at least be an ember shield extending out 18" from the front of the insert's glass. This could be a removable hearth pad or a built-in extension. Depending on the floor construction it may be possible to make the extension flush with the current flooring. With the right material (stone, half-brick, tile, etc.) it can look very intentional.
 
begreen said:
To be code compliant there should at least be an ember shield extending out 18" from the front of the insert's glass. This could be a removable hearth pad or a built-in extension. Depending on the floor construction it may be possible to make the extension flush with the current flooring. With the right material (stone, half-brick, tile, etc.) it can look very intentional.
Click to expand...

You used the term "removable" hearth pad. I thought I have seen a carpet like pad that was suppose to be used by a fireplace. Could I build a removable tile hearth to be placed in front of the insert only when it's being used?
 
Tile might work. Can be put on over the wood floor, and then some sort of edge finish installed, or the wood floor can be cut out & removed so that the tile sits flush with the existing floor. Rick

house2.jpg
 
RK05 said:
You used the term "removable" hearth pad. I thought I have seen a carpet like pad that was suppose to be used by a fireplace. Could I build a removable tile hearth to be placed in front of the insert only when it's being used?
Click to expand...

This is a bit better protection than a fiberglass rug. You can build or buy one. If you build use 3/4" plywood + cement board + tile. You want it to be rigid enough to not crack tile joints when moved.
http://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf-73900.html
http://www.amazon.com/Kalvin-International-SP10-1228-Rectangle-Extension/dp/B001AMRDYI
 
This is the best information I can give you " I you dont want to be a slave to your wood insert get the biggest firebox you can". I made the mistake of getting the Dutch West 25000X1 wood insert and have regretted it ever since, sure it did the job but youll be messing with it every two hours and that gets old quick. I am now after paying $1,100 bucks for the DW now spending another $1700 to get an Osburn 2000 with a 2.3 cf firebox because Im tired of messing with the fire every 2 hours not to mention youll have tons of coals. Take some better pics of your hearth, if you can allow it to stick out on the hearth alittle a bigger one will be the way to go. I dont really think it matters if the insert touches the bricks either to make the insert fit (others with more experience please inform) because that fire place when used as is would have a real fire touching those bricks so who cares if a hot steel is up against it. The bricks are non combustible. Just my 2 cents.
 
RK05 said:
Not sure if I understand your question on the 13" but the hearth in front of the opening is I believe 18" but would have to measure to be sure.

We just plan to burn right now to give us a little break from our natural gas $$ and if we were to have a power failure during the winter. I don't think I have the time right now to get and cut wood to supply all the heating.

I can try the cardboard trick this weekend.
Click to expand...
I felt the same way as you burn to give the furance a break and maybe save a couple bucks doing so, wood burning will get in you and youll want more from your set up go as big as you can. There is nothing like wood heat.
 
etiger2007 said:
This is the best information I can give you " I you dont want to be a slave to your wood insert get the biggest firebox you can". I made the mistake of getting the Dutch West 25000X1 wood insert and have regretted it ever since, sure it did the job but youll be messing with it every two hours and that gets old quick. I am now after paying $1,100 bucks for the DW now spending another $1700 to get an Osburn 2000 with a 2.3 cf firebox because Im tired of messing with the fire every 2 hours not to mention youll have tons of coals. Take some better pics of your hearth, if you can allow it to stick out on the hearth alittle a bigger one will be the way to go. I dont really think it matters if the insert touches the bricks either to make the insert fit (others with more experience please inform) because that fire place when used as is would have a real fire touching those bricks so who cares if a hot steel is up against it. The bricks are non combustible. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

The only problem you would have with that tight a fit is connecting the liner in install, you need a little room to maneuver.
 
I personally don't think it is an issue if an insert touched the back bricks since they would normally see fire/high temps anyways. The majority of the inserts I have looked at give you some room to either put the insert flush to the exterior or sitting out on the hearth more. I suppose though that you cannot move it out any further than what is in the manual or it wouldn't be installed correctly right?

Would putting in a stove help me with the hearth dimensions (do they need less clearance) and would a stove give me more heat vs an insert?
 
weatherguy said:
The only problem you would have with that tight a fit is connecting the liner in install, you need a little room to maneuver.
Click to expand...

RK05 said:
I personally don't think it is an issue if an insert touched the back bricks since they would normally see fire/high temps anyways.
Click to expand...

Another concern, if the insert is wedged in touching both corners in the back, is that it will not have the room to expand. As cast iron heats it does expand a little. If it cannot expand in all directions it will bend a little. This will slowly stress the seams and fatigue the metal.

RK05 said:
I suppose though that you cannot move it out any further than what is in the manual or it wouldn't be installed correctly right?
Click to expand...

Some inserts have "extension kits" that let you move it out onto the hearth. This helps when you have a shallow fireplace or if you want more of the insert exposed for radiant heat.

RK05 said:
and would a stove give me more heat vs an insert?
Click to expand...

A stove, exposed on the hearth, will radiated more heat. Most inserts compensate for this by having fans to draw the heat off the firebox. When the power is out and you are dependent on radiant heat a stove will win. When I loose power I take off the surround on my insert to let as much heat as possible into the house.

KaptJaq
 
A stove set out on the hearth will provide more heat, especially with a block off plate. It will have the added advantage of being able to heat the area better without a blower, though having one may still be a good idea. The caveat being that you will have to have a rear-exit stove unless installing a thimble above the smokeshelf is an option.

All stoves and inserts need to have 18" of hearth in front of the door(s).
 
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