How much wood will we need as a secondary heat source?

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Charlie

New Member
Jul 6, 2012
10
Augusta, Maine
Hi, we (me+wife+2 kids and the baby bump) are about to move into a house that has both oil fired hot water baseboard heating and also a wood burning fireplace in the living room and a small wood stove in the basement (I assume to prevent frozen pipes).

My question is if we were to use the oil fired baseboard as our primary heating source what would be the anticipated wood usage through a Central-Maine winter; and would this be the best/cheapest option or would using wood as our primary and the oil furnace just for hot water work out better?

I can't recall the overall sq.ft. but was told it burns about 150 gallons of oil per month in the winter and that the basement and house a well and fully insulated with modern windows and doors. Because we have a baby on the way (due in Feb) I want to ensure that we have sufficient heating, and that means enough wood if it was to be our primary source.

I should add that we are new to the area, coming from England where natural gas and electric are the predominant heating sources, so this whole wood fire thing is new to me beyond going camping.

Thanks in advance,
 
Welcome to the forum and the country, you have come to the right place. Many people use a combination of two heating sources as you are going to. One nice thing about baseboard heat is it is zoned. So you can turn on or off specific rooms with valves in the basement. Fairly easy to find which ones go to certain rooms, just turn one off and see which room stops getting heat. So you can heat as little or as much with wood as you want and adjust the furthest rooms to the right temp with the water heat. If you use wood as your primary heat an average house will go through around 4 full cords of seasoned wood. So if your intent is to do that you should probably purchase seasoned wood for this year and and of you want to process your own firewood start now for two winters from now. Also if are buying wood make sure it is properly seasoned as many wood processors sell wood that has been cut for a year but not split and stacked as it should to properly dry. Best of luck with your heating!
 
Thanks swagler85, some helpful tips there!
 
My thoughts are to use the existing pipe from the basement stove set-up and upgrade to an Englander 30 for the basement and then see how heat flows up to the rest of the house. Consider a woodstove or insert for that fireplace upstairs too if you want to use that for heating.

You're never going to know the heating dynamics of your home till you get into it and experiment.
 
Welcome :)
Get a few cords of wood now , stacked & drying, so it's usable this burn season.
I learned here how important dry firewood is, "very important".
Work into burning wood thru your 1st winter to get a feel for what you'll need.
Hot water baseboard is pretty efficient, & having wood for back up is good insurance.
The fireplace is a very in-efficient heat source, replacing it with an insert would be tops on my list for upgrading in the future if wood burning becomes serious.
Have fun with it :)
 
Consider a woodstove or insert for that fireplace upstairs too if you want to use that for heating.
Is that to say that the fireplace as it is (open with exposed brick) will not be efficient?

You're never going to know the heating dynamics of your home till you get into it and experiment.
Too true!
 
Thank you guys, this is all proving very helpful. So glad I found this forum!
 
Is that to say that the fireplace as it is (open with exposed brick) will not be efficient?

Exactly, it will be very inefficient - depending on the house, you might find it doesn't add much heat (net/net) as it will suck in too much air from outside to feed it. The stove downstairs should be much more efficient. You can get an insert stuck in the fireplace plus new pipes that will make it much more more useful - possibly enough to heat the whole house. Or possibly put a stove in front of the fireplace (might mean extending the hearth and other work). It would cost some money but 150 gallons of fuel oil a month won't be cheap either. Might pay for itself in a couple seasons.

You didn't say how big the place is - might help to get a sense.
 
I'm hesitant to recommend anything before knowing more particulars like the size of the house and the make/model of the stove. It would be a shame for you to buy a lot of wood and then to find it is too long for the stove. How long before you can get this info?
 
I'm hesitant to recommend anything before knowing more particulars like the size of the house and the make/model of the stove. It would be a shame for you to buy a lot of wood and then to find it is too long for the stove. How long before you can get this info?

Or even if the stove and chimney is usable.

I also fully agree on the fireplace. It looks nice but extremely inefficient and might even cost you more oil to burn wood in the fireplace! That is because it will suck the warm air of the house into the fire and then up the chimney.

Someone else touched on this but burning wood is a bit more than most folks think. The most common mistake is for folks to put in a great heating unit....and then go buy some fuel. That will work when the fuel is oil but when it is wood, forget that idea. Sure, wood sellers will tell you it is "seasoned" and ready to burn. Never believe it. Almost all will split the wood just before delivery. Wood needs to be split, then stacked outside in the wind in order to dry right. Most wood needs a year to dry. Good luck and welcome to the forum Charlie.
 
As for size of the place, I'll guestimate the ranch to be about 2,000sq.ft. give or take 200 and the realtor confirmed that the stove and fireplace were operable and recently cleaned.

This is the stove in the basement:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3858413611485

This is the fireplace in the living room:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3858480213150

This is the oil furnace:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3858558495107

You do NOT need to log into Facebook to view these pictures!
 
Charlie, you won't get a whole lot of heat from that wood stove nor will a fire last very long in it. First thing I'd do though would be to get rid of all that stove pipe. Move the stove so you don't have that horizontal run.
 
Well the good news is that the boiler looks like a nice setup. The woodstove not so nice. I am suspicious of the legality and safety of this installation. And the double elbowing seems like a sloppy way to avoid proper clearances. Certainly I would not rely on this setup for 24/7 heating and not for an emergency either. Plan on replacing it with a modern stove and a much shorter, cleaner connector pipe.

If the stove is close to the stairwell and the stairwell can be left open, the stove may be able to heat the house. But it will likely be hot as hell down there in order to keep the house at 70F. The stove is an area heater so the ideal location is to put it where you want the heat. But with a young family and a new house you may need to compromise. If so, do it safely first and foremost.
 
How much oil did the last owner use a year? Should be in the property disclosure unless this a foreclosed home. Figure you'll save 100-150 gallons of oil per cord of DRY hardwood you burn. But of course you'll keep the house warmer than with oil...

I'd buy a couple cords seasoned and 3-4 green to get ahead for next winter.
 
Well sounds like I sure have my work cut out for me and I am learning a great deal my first day on this site. Thank you everyone whom has replied; I am sure all of this info will serve invaluable when it comes to heating the home this winter. We was looking to make use of the basement as an extra area either for me when I work from home or turn it in to a play room for the little one when he/she gets here, but begreen's last remark makes me wonder if it will be uncomfortably warm in the basement using any stove down there as a primary heat source.

I would just like to remind everyone that both oil and wood are new fuels for me so I have no idea if 150gal is reasonable for these furnaces...natural gas and electric I know, wood and oil I have to learn.

Additionally, one thing that nobody has mentioned yet and it may be due to regional variance or something, but what is a fair price for a cord of well seasoned wood that really is seasoned and not freshly cut?
 
""what is a fair price for a cord of well seasoned wood that really is seasoned and not freshly cut?""

The million dollar question :)
Getting well seasoned wood , ready to burn, from 95% of wood sellers is almost impossible.
Most wood takes a year or 2 to dry enough to burn well & it don't start to dry until it's split & stacked, off the ground with air circulating thru the splits.
Not impossible but rare to buy wood ready to burn.

Like all of us starting out, we learned that lesson.
Get some seasoned wood now, get it stacked off the ground in single rows so it can start drying more.

The big thing is to get 2 to 3 years ahead so the wood has a year or two to dry well.
Since you are behind the curve, ask around & try to find a god seller with a good reputation, get some "NOW" & get it stacked.
Be wary of oak, as it takes 2 to 3 years to dry for good burning.

Some Mainer's will probably chime in. My guess for your area is about $175 - 200 /cord.

first year for me, I burned what I had & cleaned/inspected the chimney often.
& now I know & continually work to get. stay ahead so the wood has time to dry.
Wood burning is fun, rewarding & lots of work. Fun work for most of us, but work.
 
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Looks to me that the stove is a very poor setup or even illegal. Is it venting out a boarded up window? What does the outside chimney look like?

Looks like you have baseboard heat down there, if it were my place I'd get rid of that death trap in the basement and either install a stove or insert in the fireplace and use the oil for occasional basement heat.
 
Charlie, you won't get a whole lot of heat from that wood stove nor will a fire last very long in it. First thing I'd do though would be to get rid of all that stove pipe. Move the stove so you don't have that horizontal run.

Yep.... All that pipe ain't helping anything. Only gonna negatively affect draft, which is directly related to the efficiency and proper use of that stove.
 
Being an inveterate do-it-myselfer, I am all for handling things on one's own. In this case, with a baby and new resident who will be experiencing the winters for the first time in a new environment, someone new to wood heating, and so on, you might consider having a professional stove person come have a look at the house and the stove set-up, the fireplace chimney as well. Or get more than one opinion. You can spend a ton of money and end up with too much or not enough and be miserable in the cold or whatever. You are receiving good info' here, and you can put it all together before you decide how to do it.

Without even seeing the place myself, I can second the opinions that the fireplace will almost certainly be a no-go for general heating. I built a Rumford in my place, and it does crank out the heat. But it is for pleasure and not, really, space heating. Fireplaces eat a lot of wood, compared with wood stoves. They also need a lot more tending, and constant tending. They are great to sit before and look at, which is what ours if for. But the stove or insert will actually heat the living quarters. I think you've already figured this out.

It isn't really possible to give an absolute consideration of the basement stove set-up without being there in person. Or whether the fireplace chimney is in good shape for addition of a stove/insert and whether you would need to line that chimney [likely]. Someone who can walk around the place, inspect everything, get a feel for the situation, can give you an outline of what would be needed to do what you propose: supplement your heating needs with wood burning. Then you can decide whether you have or want to invest the money it will take.

There are many choices of stoves and installations. Take your time.
 
Looks to me that the stove is a very poor setup or even illegal. Is it venting out a boarded up window? What does the outside chimney look like?

Looks like you have baseboard heat down there, if it were my place I'd get rid of that death trap in the basement and either install a stove or insert in the fireplace and use the oil for occasional basement heat.

x2, that is exactly what I was thinking.
 
I'm wondering if that setup, with the long run, was more an attempt to get more heat out of the smaller stove (stove pipe) rather than a safety issue. they could have easily used a shorter pipe and direct connect to the exhaust area. just wondering......that's all. if this is your first year in the north east, its going to be a rude awakening. getting set up for wood heating is easily something you can go broke at, trying to save money. the initial expense can be costly but you can level it out by picking up a used stove, doing a lot of the installation yourself.....with expert advice from the guys in here and getting your own wood if you get the opportunity.
welcome to the forum.

cass
 
Late to the party, so I'm going to try to comment on a bunch of things at once. You stated 150 gal/mo. for 2000 sq.ft. ranch. Hard to know which month that is, as the season is highly variable, but maybe you can figure on roughly 1000 gallons per year. Oil around here runs $3.45 in the off season to $3.75 at the peak of the heating season. You can usually buy a reserve at the off-season price each year, to use throughout the season. It would pay to contract with an oil company now, while the prices are lower, and get that arranged at least a portion of what you think you'll need before the heating season kicks in.

Oil has a very predictable 135k BTU/gal, while the wood we typically burn here can vary 18M - 29M BTU/cord, depending on species. Figure in your appliance efficiencies for the useable BTU's. Your oil boiler looks good, and is likely at least 85% efficient, for 115k BTU/gallon usable heat, or $3.18/100,000 BTU's at $3.65/gallon. The prices I've seen quoted on this forum for cut and split firewood typically vary $175 - $225 / cord. So, given the range of BTU's mentioned above, and a good 75% efficient wood stove, you could heat with wood at $0.92 - $1.48 / cord, based on $200/cord. If you scrounge for free wood, as most of us do, the economics are even better.

I'm not sure of the efficiency of your fireplace or current wood stove, but as others have already stated, they're piss poor. That's fine, if you just want a fire for embiance and some radiant heat, as many Americans do. Don't plan on getting much usable heat from them without upgrades.

In more rural parts of the north Atlantic coast, it's not that rare to find people with wood fired or coal fired boilers sitting next to their oil boiler. This is by no means mainstream, but I work with at least a few people heating with such setups. Even more common is folks with an efficient wood stove or two, to heat the larger and more open portions of their house. This works best if you can split up your hot water heating system into multiple zones, so that you can still get heat to the far reaches of the house, where the wood stove heat may not go so easily. We have our place split up into six heating zones off the oil fired boiler, two zones with LP gas, one wood stove installed and another on the way. It allows us to only heat the parts of the house we're using, and to only use oil or gas for the parts of the house not sufficiently heated by wood.

Trying to heat a house from an uninsulated basement is very common around here. The result is usually a very warm basement and a too-cool house. Often, the house is insulated from the basement, and uninsulated stone or concrete basement walls don't make for the best heating dynamics. My advice would be to correct the stove piping issues on that basement stove, and plan to just use a stove in the basement for heating the basement when you're using it, not the rest of the house. For that purpose, the stove you already have may suffice a few years. If you want to heat the main floor of the house, consider a wood fired boiler in tandem with your oil boiler, or a good EPA-rated stove on that existing fireplace hearth. Both options have their advantages and disadvantages.
 
I think if you want to use wood as a main or even a significant secondary heat source you need to change something. I would consider either a fireplace insert upstairs or a better wood stove downstairs. A fireplace insert is a wood stove designed to fit inside a fireplace. The insert has controlled air intakes and is connected to a flue pipe that runs up the chimney for air outlet, and so you can control the air flow through the stove. With a fireplace you have minimal control over the air flow and as a result a too much air is pulled out the chimney. This causes cold air from outside to leak into the house to replace the air that goes out the chimney, and the net result is that you don't gain a lot of heat by using the fireplace. With an insert the fireplace can become a very effective heat source. You will need both the insert and a flue pipe and it will probably cost about $4000. If you want to upgrade the wood stove in the basement that might be cheaper, provided you have a serviceable flue connected to the existing wood stove. If all you need is a new stove you can buy something like the Englander NC30 for under $1000, and if the flue is OK then it could be connected for a few hundred dollars or so. Your curent stove looks old and small, so it will be less efficient than a new stove and won't burn as long as a larger stove.

If you are on a tight budget then I'd find a local chimney sweep who also does installations and have the flue for the wood stove cleaned and inspected. That should cost around $100 to $200 or so (just a guess). If the insepction indicates the stove is safe then use the existing wood stove. It will burn more wood than a new stove, but will help with heating the house.
 
I would burn wood for a year to see if you like it before doing anything to drastic. Maybe try and find a used insert for the first year. You can allways re-sell it and get most your money back if you don't like burning wood. If it fits your lifestyle and you enjoy it I would seriously consider a gasifacation wood boiler in tandam with your oil boiler. It is a large investment but well worth it in my opinion. Then you can heat the whole house evenly from one spot and the oil will take over should you let the fire go out.
 
The stove appears to be vented out the window with a class A thimble. If so, and if proper clearances are honored, then I have hope for the exterior chimney. But we will have to wait for more pictures to tell. I agree that it appears that the person was trying to extract more heat from the inefficient stove by adding piping surface area. The downside of course is increased creosote accumulation. Have both of the chimneys cleaned and inspected before lighting any fires.

When do you move in Charlie? The biggest issue is going to be dry wood. I would order a couple full cords of 16" hardwood for this first winter. If you can specify ash, that would be great. Try to avoid oak as it takes a lot longer to season. Seek out local references for the most reputable wood seller and pay a bit more for seasoned wood that wasn't split the week before. This may be a challenge, so ask around and get referrals first.

Owners and realtors often understate the fuel use when trying to sell a house. Call the oil company that serviced the house and ask them to look up the oil records for the past few years. Last winter was a warm one so it may not be representative of normal consumption. Also note that the $150/mo oil bill could have been because of supplemental wood burning. If so, the actual consumption could be higher.

If possible, get a good used stove unless you can afford about $1000 for a new one. We can help you if you post the item here before going to look at it. You will probably go through all the wood before winter is out. That's alright, you don't need to burn 24/7. Save that for the coldest month. By February it sounds like you are going to have your attention diverted to a much more important occasion. All the best to you and your wife with the new home and new baby!
 
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