Is a step top necessary for cooking?

Sprinter · Jul 6, 2012

My wife is keen on doing some cooking on a new wood stove, and I'm keen on eating. So, I see that a few stoves are built with a step top for this purpose (like the PE Super Step Top and some others. How effective or important is that feature for cooking?

Also, how hot should a top be for cooking?

pen · Jul 6, 2012

I don't think a step top is necessary for cooking. The stoves I have cooked on did have a step top, but if I needed things cooler I simply placed a slab of soapstone on some part of the stove then the pot on top, or else a metal trivet underneath the pot. I'd be far more apt to believe that the step is there for strength purposes for that top plate more than any intended cooking purposes even though some try to use that as a selling point.

If you are really interested in cooking, the size of the flat space will govern which size pot or skillet you can set on there, and would be most important to me.

If the wife is seriously considering this as more than just an occasional thing, perhaps look into the wood cook stoves available. Here is an example of one that has always caught my eye . http://www.antiquestoves.com/bakersoven/index.htm

If you really want to cook on a unit as you wood a gas or electric range, you need removable plates so the flames could actually lick the bottom of a skillet.

pen

Pallet Pete · Jul 6, 2012

No we have a Jotul f-50 that we cook on regularly and its great ! I know eggs are pretty basic but man they taste good. Our stove has a removable washable milled top for cooking on as well as an option for grilling called the winter grill. It allows you to grill over the coals by utilizing the top load door. That one is still coming we are on a long waiting list

The cooking temp for our stove top seems to be in the 350 F range at least thats where it is the easiest for us. You can also put a dutch oven in your coal bed and make some really good food as well.

Pete

Prof · Jul 6, 2012

I cook a fair amount on my Quadrafire Cumberland Gap. The cast iron top of my stove lifts off to expose a nice flat steel surface that I cook on. The cast iron top is decorative and does not easily get hot enough to cook on. In hindsight, I would have gone with the PE Summit and skipped the cast iron shell. I use trivets to regulate the heat on the steel top. I essentially use the trivets for the same purpose as the step top would serve. According to my IR gun, the stove top is between 400-600 degrees when I am cooking. I've even played around with a tin oven (essentially a metal box) that I got on ebay for baking on top of the stove. My favorite thing to do is to use a contained rack to grill steaks in the firebox. I put a couple hickory splits in N/S, with a good bed of coals and put the rack on top of the splits--5 min or so each side. The edges of the rack sits on the splits keeping the rack a few inches from the coals. As the hickory starts to burn, the smoke gives a nice flavor. Wow, it's about 90 where I am right now and I'm salivating, wishing I had a fire in my stove.

Backwoods Savage · Jul 6, 2012

And we cook regularly on our soapstone stove (Fireview).

fossil · Jul 6, 2012

Step tops are structural features to make the tops of steel stoves resistant to warping. They are not incorporated for the express purpose of cooking. That said, lots of folks seem to find them useful, as the temps on the two levels may run a bit different. And some stove manufacturers make a big deal out them. Both of my stoves are step tops, but I don't do any cooking on them, so I've never paid any attention to whether or not the two tops run at different temps. If they do, I wouldn't expect they would vary much from one another. Any big metal box that's really hot inside can be cooked on. Rick

begreen · Jul 6, 2012

Swing out trivets make for dandy, temperature controlled cooking.

tcassavaugh · Jul 7, 2012

"If you really want to cook on a unit as you wood a gas or electric range, you need removable plates so the flames could actually lick the bottom of a skillet."

I've never heard of that....and i used to watch my grandmother cook on a wood stove. I thought the plates were for feeding fuel to the wood box, and to make direct contact of the pot/pan to the hottest parts of the stove because of the direct contact of the heat and flame to the plate. Like I said, I've never seen a stove RUN with them off and fire going directly to the pan/pot.
jmho
cass

SteveKG · Jul 7, 2012

You don't need any removable plates to cook on top of a wood stove. Our Heartland [photo left] is designed for cooking and has a cast iron insert on top, no removable plates, and cooks as well as our propane burners on another stove. In some ways, it cooks better. The older cookstoves did have removable plates; I had an old stove that had 8 plates of differing sizes. I used it for eleven years, and never removed any of those plates except now and then to add some small pieces of firewood. All the removal did was cause the bottoms of the pans to be covered with soot.

pen · Jul 7, 2012

Old cookware often had a smoke ring on the bottom. This was used to make a good seal against the stove top when a plate was removed for cooking. These old pans were often thinner than modern cast (so they would heat quicker) and also could warp easier. If it was a smooth bottom resting on the stove and there is any warpage, it won't work well. Having this would have become especially important in a time where fuel was not always easy to procure, and the stove would be run as low as possible to get a job done. If soot builds up on the bottom of a cast skillet, just use a razor to scrape it off.

Having those is not necessary, but gives many more options depending on how you like to cook and how much wood you wish to use. But, as Steve mentioned, your skillets won't stay very clean but you'll be one heck of a lot quicker getting a gallon of water to boil for pasta or potatoes.

As I said before, to me, what is most important is that you look at the size cookware you use most, or are interested in using on the stove, and make sure that you find a unit with a stove top that can fit that size skillet or dutch oven.

pen

pen · Jul 7, 2012

SteveKG said:
You don't need any removable plates to cook on top of a wood stove. Our Heartland [photo left] is designed for cooking and has a cast iron insert on top, no removable plates, and cooks as well as our propane burners on another stove. In some ways, it cooks better. The older cookstoves did have removable plates; I had an old stove that had 8 plates of differing sizes. I used it for eleven years, and never removed any of those plates except now and then to add some small pieces of firewood. All the removal did was cause the bottoms of the pans to be covered with soot.

I see heartland also makes stoves with removable plates. Perhaps each have a bit of a different internal design? Regardless, that's a sharp looking unit. Sure wish I had the place for one.

pen

Armoured · Jul 7, 2012

Sprinter said:
My wife is keen on doing some cooking on a new wood stove, and I'm keen on eating. So, I see that a few stoves are built with a step top for this purpose (like the PE Super Step Top and some others. How effective or important is that feature for cooking?

Honestly don't know, but if I'm not mistaken you were asking about cat/non-cat and soapstone in a different thread. It's more expensive but you might want to look at this:
http://woodstocksoapstoneco.blogspot.com/2012/04/new-progress-hybrid-cook-topsoapstone.html

Treacherous · Jul 7, 2012

My Endeavor is a step top. I have never cooked anything on it. A good long power outage in the winter might change that though.

http://www.lopistoves.com/stovecooking/

begreen · Jul 7, 2012

Short answer is no, a step top is not necessary. However it it nice to have two levels of cooking temperatures. This is the beauty of a real wood cookstove because one can go from high to low temp just by moving the pan to another locations. PE gets around this on the Alderlea with movable trivets. Low temp over the trivet is perfect for slow cooking and simmering. High temp is directly on the stove top. You an simulate this on a regular flat stove top with a portable trivet.

The one type of stove that is not so good for cooking is one that has an all the way across air space between the firebox top and the stove top. That gap works well for the convection fan, but not so well for cooking because the stove top is often too cool for medium to high heat. Forget trying to boil water on that type of top.

Sprinter · Jul 7, 2012

Armoured said:
Honestly don't know, but if I'm not mistaken you were asking about cat/non-cat and soapstone in a different thread. It's more expensive but you might want to look at this:
http://woodstocksoapstoneco.blogspot.com/2012/04/new-progress-hybrid-cook-topsoapstone.html

I really like the looks of that stove. It's probably too large for me at 2.8 cu ft, but if they made a smaller version and less expensive, I think I'd jump on it. Yes, I've asked a lot of questions on this forum trying to get a handle on my stove decision. It sounds like 2 cu ft is about right for my situation, but that's assuming non-cat. I wonder, though, if a 2.8 cu ft cat stove like this would be okay, since I could burn lower fires without dirty smouldering or compromising efficiency. Would that be right? I still don't quite understand the whole cat / non-cat thing yet and this is both which actually complicates the issue for me. Maybe it's even worth over 3 grand, who knows?

Could I be less concerned about over-sizing with a cat or a hybrid like this? So the questions go on...

Armoured · Jul 7, 2012

Sprinter said:
I really like the looks of that stove. It's probably too large for me at 2.8 cu ft, but if they made a smaller version and less expensive, I think I'd jump on it. Yes, I've asked a lot of questions on this forum trying to get a handle on my stove decision. It sounds like 2 cu ft is about right for my situation, but that's assuming non-cat. I wonder, though, if a 2.8 cu ft cat stove like this would be okay, since I could burn lower fires without dirty smouldering or compromising efficiency. Would that be right? I still don't quite understand the whole cat / non-cat thing yet and this is both which actually complicates the issue for me. Maybe it's even worth over 3 grand, who knows?

Could I be less concerned about over-sizing with a cat or a hybrid like this? So the questions go on...

They make smaller stoves and the tops can be used (as they show in the photos) for cooking. This one just has a special arrangement to make it more convenient (and you don't have to cook directly on the soapstone).

Only a guess, but with the cat and soapstone, you'd probably not be run out of the house as long as you adjusted how you burn. You can still run smaller fires, cat is there for the longer times and lower fires, and the soapstone would moderate the temperature swings a lot (keeping warm even when the fire's out). So in your shoulder seasons, you might find running it for shorter, smaller fires is enough to take the edge off the cold and the soapstone will keep the place pleasantly warm for quite a while.

It probably would be more stove than you "need", size-wise and strictly from a heating perspective, but the overheating less of a risk than it might be with other stoves. And opening a window a bit once in a while is not the end of the world. Of course, you've got other criteria that count too - if you like the way it looks, nothing wrong with that, and if you can get fed to boot...

One small additional thought: since the sizing is an issue, you might have to think of cooking as an option when you have the stove operating. Might overheat the house if you intend to fire it up primarily so as to cook. But then, you wouldn't expect to cook on most stoves in summer either.

Sprinter · Jul 7, 2012

Thanks for the replies. Yes, cooking is not the highest priority. Wife just likes the idea of being able to cook on it sometimes so I thought if I could find something that was especially nice for cooking and fulfilled the other needs, that would be perfect. Sounds like any of the stoves operate at a good top temp for light cooking. The Progress cook top looks very cool and I like the moveable trivet idea on the Alderlea's too. Actually, I just now read something on a blog that has me wondering if any soapstone stove would be right for me, though. Seems they are so hard to get up to operating temperature that they are best suited for someone who basically burns 24/7 all season long, or nearly so. That's not going to be us, I don't think. Our shoulder seasons are so unpredictable and long that I'm sure we'll be wanting to let it go cold and start it back up after a few days, quite often. Or just running it in the morning and let it go out after a few hours. But that's another issue.

begreen · Jul 8, 2012

Sounds like a car talk moment. Are you an engineer?

Sprinter · Jul 8, 2012

begreen said:
Sounds like a car talk moment. Are you an engineer?

And a very methodical one. So, I'm supposed to apologize now or what? A less secure person might take offense at the question

. Man, I haven't heard Car Talk for years now. Is it still on? I can't really get any of the Seattle AM stations down here. Wonder if it's available streamed? I listen to KOMO talk radio that way some times.

Now that I have your personal attention again, is it hard to start an Alderlea because of it's mass like the soapstone ones? I'm warming up to the whole PE line, actually.

Armoured · Jul 8, 2012

Sprinter said:
Actually, I just now read something on a blog that has me wondering if any soapstone stove would be right for me, though. Seems they are so hard to get up to operating temperature that they are best suited for someone who basically burns 24/7 all season long, or nearly so. That's not going to be us, I don't think. Our shoulder seasons are so unpredictable and long that I'm sure we'll be wanting to let it go cold and start it back up after a few days, quite often. Or just running it in the morning and let it go out after a few hours. But that's another issue.

Car Talk is available through iTunes in podcasts - I was listening to it yesterday in my car through phone! I think you can also download from their website.

I think the soapstone would be an advantage in your case, because it would moderate the temperature swings.

Where I've heard some people see it as a disadvantage is when they have a cold house they need to heat quickly - but even there it seems like the difference between it throwing out serious heat in twenty minutes (for a plain metal stove) to 40-60 mins for the soapstone. But ask around and do the research.

If you're using your existing furnace as backup, shouldn't really be that much of an issue - house won't normally be that cold. (This might be my case - weekend getaway and during the winter I set the heat above freezing just to protect the pipes when we're away, so it's _cold_ when we arrive - and even so an extra half hour wouldn't drive my decision, I'd love to put a soapstone in).

Some might say there's an efficiency issue, and perhaps for stoves entirely made of stone and without a cat (too long to get up to best operating temperature inside the firebox). But the woodstocks are metal stoves inside with soapstone exteriors, and the key is for the catalytic combustor to get to its operating temperature (which is lower than needed for best combustion without a cat).

'Course, a stove that nice, would be great to run it 24/7.

fossil · Jul 8, 2012

Sadly, Click & Clack are going to retire, and Car Talk (as we've always known it) will be no more.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...ring-but-their-best-stuff-will-be-rebroadcast

(I'm an Engineer (Mechanical)...and I never apologize for that).

begreen · Jul 8, 2012

Sprinter said:
And a very methodical one. So, I'm supposed to apologize now or what? A less secure person might take offense at the question . Man, I haven't heard Car Talk for years now. Is it still on? I can't really get any of the Seattle AM stations down here. Wonder if it's available streamed? I listen to KOMO talk radio that way some times.

Now that I have your personal attention again, is it hard to start an Alderlea because of it's mass like the soapstone ones? I'm warming up to the whole PE line, actually.

Ha! That was just a guess, but a good one. dry wood and good kindling make a stove easy to start. Supercedars help too!

Sprinter · Jul 8, 2012

Armoured said:
Car Talk is available through iTunes in podcasts - I was listening to it yesterday in my car through phone! I think you can also download from their website.

I think the soapstone would be an advantage in your case, because it would moderate the temperature swings.

Where I've heard some people see it as a disadvantage is when they have a cold house they need to heat quickly - but even there it seems like the difference between it throwing out serious heat in twenty minutes (for a plain metal stove) to 40-60 mins for the soapstone. But ask around and do the research.

If you're using your existing furnace as backup, shouldn't really be that much of an issue - house won't normally be that cold. (This might be my case - weekend getaway and during the winter I set the heat above freezing just to protect the pipes when we're away, so it's _cold_ when we arrive - and even so an extra half hour wouldn't drive my decision, I'd love to put a soapstone in).

Some might say there's an efficiency issue, and perhaps for stoves entirely made of stone and without a cat (too long to get up to best operating temperature inside the firebox). But the woodstocks are metal stoves inside with soapstone exteriors, and the key is for the catalytic combustor to get to its operating temperature (which is lower than needed for best combustion without a cat).

'Course, a stove that nice, would be great to run it 24/7.

Well, the issue that I was concerned about was the time it takes to fuss around just trying to get the flue hot enough to draft. Here's the site I was reading: http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hosoapstone.htm. I just don't want to have to mess around for an hour or two every time the stove has gone cold. However, I guess in the case of the hybrid with a cat, that may not be as big an issue since the cat should allow a draft at a lower temperature, while the the stone is also warming up. Do I kind of get the right idea there with this hybrid?

BrotherBart · Jul 8, 2012

Cooking on the stove top is a great idea. We did it in power outages for a while years ago. Until that time we had to smell that burned stew for a week after it boiled over and we had to keep the stove hot for heat.

Now we cook in outages with a propane camp stove and let the wood stove do its job. Heat the joint.

Sprinter · Jul 8, 2012

fossil said:
Sadly, Click & Clack are going to retire, and Car Talk will be no more.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...ring-but-their-best-stuff-will-be-rebroadcast

(I'm an Engineer (Mechanical)...and I never apologize for that).

Well, thanks, BG for the Car Talk reference and Fossil from Bend for the info. I listened to the Tappet Brothers religiously in the 80's and then lost track. Sad to hear that they are retiring, but very glad that they will continue the show based on rerun material. I'm stoked that I'll be able to catch the program again. This thread was worth that alone...

Is a step top necessary for cooking?

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