What to do with a big Ash

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Drop each one at a time,cleaning up as you go.The outside ones first.Second from right looks like it might have a couple decent sawlogs in it. Take your time,those big leaners can be quite nerve-wracking.Have a path cleared for escape before you start,be ready to drop the saw & run if need be.
 
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thats not a Ash tree. It must be Basswood. Sorry just looked it up
 
Believe me you could get many logs out of it, those trunks are long and even though some flair out they are pretty straight climbing up a good 70 feet. I just got a 28 ton splitter, I am sure it will be interesting getting the rounds to the splitter. I am sure the Bobcat will have to get involved. No hurry, but I imagine this one could heat my house for a few years.

A cant hook will do wonders for you and won't use any fuel either. Splitting ash is child's play.
 
Dave, I know those leaners scare me a little about a possible barber chair, and that would be a hell of a chair. Also the close proximity to the other trunks does not give me a lot of comfort either. I am sure the 660 would tear it up. At least it looks like I can drop them one at a time without falling into the other trunks.

Golf, you are correct with the concern of barber chair on the ash. That is one good reason to use a big saw. If you try to cut slow, that is what will cause the barber chair. However, you still have to be very careful and aware of the danger.
 
Hi, woodburning has become a bit of an obsession for me, cant beat a cozy fire in winter, so read just about everything I can on the subject.

Have been looking at this site for a while but found this interesting and thought I would comment.
I thought at first it was a coppiced tree, we have lots in the UK, not heard anyone mention coppicing on this site and wondered if it was uncommon in the States ?

Regards

Billy.

Welcome to the forum Billy.
 
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Hi, woodburning has become a bit of an obsession for me, cant beat a cozy fire in winter, so read just about everything I can on the subject.

Have been looking at this site for a while but found this interesting and thought I would comment.
I thought at first it was a coppiced tree, we have lots in the UK, not heard anyone mention coppicing on this site and wondered if it was uncommon in the States ?

Regards

Billy.

Welcome, never heard of a coppicing tree.
 
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The two outer trunks present a serious threat of barber chairing. To minimize the risk, tightly wrap a logging chain about a foot above where you will be making your face and back cuts.
 
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Welcome to the forum Billy.
Thanks Dennis, have seen the photo's of your woodpiles, they're fantastic. :)

Welcome, never heard of a coppicing tree.
Thanks J T, coppicing is an ancient form of woodland management that we used to have alot of in the UK, declined since the industrial revolution and the wider use of fossil fuels, but is making a bit of a comeback.
You may find this link of interest -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing

Regards

Billy,
 
The two outer trunks present a serious threat of barber chairing. To minimize the risk, tightly wrap a logging chain about a foot above where you will be making your face and back cuts.
That is a good idea, when the time comes I will try that. The tree is so thick the chain will probably only go around twice at most.
 
Thanks billy. I learned somthing new today.
 
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Thanks billy. I learned somthing new today.
Same here, I had to look up that term. I have noticed some trees that I cut keep wanting to come back by sending out shoots from the stump. I guess that is copicing. This Ash tree must have accidentilly been copiced a hundred years ago.
 
take down a sassafras and see what happens...........you'll have 50 of them popping up all over the place. Same as topping a tree. It produces many shoots
 
Same here, I had to look up that term. I have noticed some trees that I cut keep wanting to come back by sending out shoots from the stump. I guess that is copicing. This Ash tree must have accidentilly been copiced a hundred years ago.

I guess it's not a common thing in the US, possibly because there is so much woodland to go at.
It has been practiced in Europe for 0ver 5000 years, it is said that some coppiced trees are up to 1000 years old, the stool (rootstock) gets bigger and bigger and new growth produced on an almost never ending cycle.
Great for firewood as you get long straight poles.
maybe the way to go ?
It's best started on younger trees, less than 50 years old, Ash is particularly good for coppicing and can be done on a 7- 10 year cycle, on oak which is slower growing a 50 year cycle, the beauty of it is the regrowth is much faster than a normal tree as the rootstock is bigger.
Found a very interesting article which goes into detail but wouldnt want to bore anyone.

From the pics, thats what I thought, a coppice stool, hard to see the base as the quad is in the way.

regards

Billy.

Just had another look and I think it's several trees all growing close together.
 
thats not a Ash tree. It must be Basswood. Sorry just looked it up

Definitely could be basswood. Check the leaves. Ash has a compound leaf. basswood has a big kind of heart-shaped leaf and they usually grow in clusters. You'll certainly know when you start cutting it, basswood is like cutting candles compared to ash. I've never burned basswood, but it would probably be OK for shoulder season wood. Use a good sharp fast saw and you should be able to avoid barber chairing 'em. Lots of wood in that cluster for sure.
 
Definitely could be basswood. Check the leaves. Ash has a compound leaf. basswood has a big kind of heart-shaped leaf and they usually grow in clusters. You'll certainly know when you start cutting it, basswood is like cutting candles compared to ash. I've never burned basswood, but it would probably be OK for shoulder season wood. Use a good sharp fast saw and you should be able to avoid barber chairing 'em. Lots of wood in that cluster for sure.
As I said before, it is Ash, dieing from the Ash Borer like my other Ash trees. Notice how it shedding the bark.
 
The two outer trunks present a serious threat of barber chairing. To minimize the risk, tightly wrap a logging chain about a foot above where you will be making your face and back cuts.

Now that sounds like a good idea! I have a lot of leaners to cut, and I've been plagued with barber chairs. I have to try this on my next one!
 
Now that sounds like a good idea! I have a lot of leaners to cut, and I've been plagued with barber chairs. I have to try this on my next one!

I can not take credit for that technique; rather, it was detailed in the book, "To Fell a Tree". Best $12.00 I ever spent. From learning how to process wood more efficiently to safety methods, this book is worth its weight in gold.
 
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Thanks Steve,

I put a link to wikipedia on post 33 but will post another doc with more detail, may make interesting reading for all the woodsmen in the US as it doesn't seem to be common paractice over the pond. -

The site wouldnt let me post the whole document (over 8300 charecters long) so will have to put it on a couple of posts.

Coppicing is a Continuous Cover Woodland management
The old tradition of Coppicing is just one of the many different Continuous Cover Forestry Practices.

Coppicing used to be a very common way to manage woodland. With increasing industrialisation, the introduction of fossil fuels, such as coal, oil and gas and modern materials such as plastic, many coppices became neglected due to the fact that the produce of coppices (smaller bits of timber/wood such as firewood, poles, charcoal, and a whole range of stuff like broomsticks, chair and table legs, hurdles, gates, etc. etc were no longer required). Nowadays there is a revival of interest in coppicing, partly because it produces a particular woodland habitat which favours a rich variety of flowers (many of the old bluebell woods were coppices) and other biodiversity.

A coppice is a woodland where the trees are harvested, whilst they are still young (for example 7-12 years old only). If this is done in the winter, whilst the trees are dormant (without leaves - 'sleeping' or hibernating) then in spring they will send up several new shoots, which results in a multi-stemmed tree.

This multi-stemmed tree is called a stool. In another 7-12 years all these shoots will have become trunks with a diameter of maybe 3 to 5 inches or more. The thickness and rate of growth depends of course on species, soil, location, weather, and so on.

All these new shoots/trunks/stems are then cut down again (always only in winter) and the following spring the stool will again begin to grow new shoots.

This process can go on indefinitely. Many species of deciduous trees (= those trees that lose their leaves in winter) appear to be rejuvenated by being cut down when they are relatively young. Such trees, if regularly coppiced maintain that youthful vigour and will become much older than if left to grow as an 'ordinary' one-stemmed tree.

An Ash tree for example normally dies of old age at around 250-300 years, but if coppiced regularly and properly , the stool can keep on going for as long as a 1000 years and maybe longer.

Coppicing produces a woodland with a very stable environment, because the roots themselves never die, as they inevitably will in clearcut-forestry. Only a part of the Coppice-woodland is cut down to the ground each year, which allows more light to enter. This mixture of shaded and light patches creates eventually a mature environment that is very rich in biodiversity.

Some tree species are more suitable for Coppicing than others
Not all trees are suitable for coppicing. Conifers tend to die, rather than send up shoots, and some broadleaf/deciduous trees like Oak do not respond well either.

Examples of tree species that are very successfully used for coppicing in the UK are Ash, Hazel, Beech, Willow, Alder, Sweet Chestnut, Sycamore, Poplar, etc.

You may have guessed by now that there are many similarities between coppicing and hedge growing, because we are using tree species that thrive in spite of being cut back. The difference is of course that in hedges the trees are planted much closer together and we often choose species, which will form a good looking hedge by sprouting a mass of leaves from tiny twigs. Coppicing stools are at least 2.5-3 metres apart and we grow them to produce long multiple limbs rather than a mass of dense little twigs.

More to follow.

Billy.
 
Coppicing part 2-

Different types of Coppice Management

There are many different ways of Coppice Management. It used to be common to allow a few standard trees (i.e. single trunk trees) per acre in amongst the coppice stools to grow into tall trees with greater diameter trunks. Several centuries ago many of these standard trees would have been Oaks, which were often grown for supplying timbers for larger buildings and for making ships.

Pollarding

By the way, there is another word you may hear mentioned, which is 'pollarding'. This is somewhat similar to coppicing, except instead of cutting the young tree down to near-ground level, it is cut higher up, for example at 6 or 7 ft high. Another word for this is 'topping' because you take the top off (again: in winter when the tree is hibernating!). In spring it will then respond by sending out multiple branches and these can be harvested every so many years.

Pollarding is often done so that animals can graze in between the trees. Many goats, cows, horses, sheep, deer, etc. love munching up young trees and shoots. By pollarding, rather than coppicing you can create an environment where the young shoots can grow happily just out of reach of the animals. And it still allows you to harvest the branches once they are thick enough every so many years for firewood or other small timber needs. Holly trees were grown like that for example in the Lake District. Their leaves were used often as winterfood for the animals and the branches itself were used for making a product called 'birdlime' (a sticky substance with which they uses to catch canaries -and other birds- for use in the mines, etc. etc.). Quite a few trees can be grown this way as extra animal winter fodder when hay or grass is in short supply. Because trees are 3D as opposed to the 2D field, they produce a much greater quantity of nutritious food than the patch of ground on which the tree grows if it just grew grass. The only requirement to obtain this extra food is human energy, as it is hard to mechanise harvesting branches from a tree.

Most common Coppice Practices

The most common coppice practice is that the trees are harvested every 7-12 years. If in your particular situation, the trees have put on sufficient growth after 8 years for your particular purpose, you can harvest them every 8 years. That does not usually mean that you cut down the whole of your coppice woodland every 8 years and do nothing in between!
Instead people could divide the Coppice woodland up in 8 sections and harvest one section each winter, thus having a steady supply of firewood or poles or whatever else they want from the coppice.

For example: If you have an acre of coppice woodland, you would only harvest an eighth of an acre each year.

Another example: if you have a little business sideline doing firewood and all your regular customers buy an amount of wood equivalent to the produce of 1 hectare of coppice every year, you need 8 hectares of coppice to keep on supplying them indefinitely.

Before coal, gas and oil were introduced, there were a lot of coppices in Britain to supply firewood and charcoal to keep those without access to their own trees warm in the winter and enable them to cook. In those days there were of course no chainsaws, so an added advantage of coppicing is that the multiple stems of the coppice stools are not huge in diameter and are therefore much easier to cut with hand tools as opposed to a large mature tree trunk.

With coppicing you also save yourself the trouble (and potential backache problems) of having to split many large logs.

An alternative way to coppice management from dividing it into 8 sections (1 to be cut each winter) is to cut an eight of the total amount of trees you have all over the coppice woodland, for example every 8th tree or just the trees which are close to the ideal size of wood you're after.
Part 3 to follow
Regards

Billy.
 
Coppicing part 3 -

Planning to plant a new Coppice Woodland

When you are planting a new coppice, you do not have wait necessarily for 8 years until you cut your first harvest. It is possible to start cutting the small trees as soon as they have established themselves with a reasonable root system.

This way you will obtain a larger harvest, because the stools, which you are creating this way, will send up their new multiple stems, so in 8 years time, you might obtain 5-10 stems and more from each tree, rather than just 1 single trunk.

Summarising some things to think about when establishing a coppice:

* Decide on what you want to get out of your coppice. It is often course more interesting to plant a variety of different tree species, rather than creating mono-culture coppice with just one sort of tree.
Even if you want to primarily grow Ash, because it is such an excellent firewood, include some other trees as well. This will benefit the biodiversity of your wood, it will look more attractive, plus you will gain a wider experience as a woodsman/woman from the close contact with these species. Each tree species has different gifts and talents.
In addition to the species already mentioned, you may also want to include a couple of Wild and Bird Cherries, Birches, Norway and Field Maple, Hawthorn and other trees which are a feast to the eye with their different leaves, flowers, berries and autumn colours.
* First Winter: Plant your young trees, protect them from grazing animals and make sure their small root systems do not dry out and can establish themselves. A healthy root system is the first requirement for a tree at this stage.
* The next few winters you have a management choice to make: Cut to create a few more side shoots or be patient and start forming stools another year?
1. With a good pair of secateurs or tree loppers, you can cut all your trees to about a couple of inches from the ground, so that each little tree will start to develop several shoots as early as possible. The next year you might cut the shoots back to double the amount of shoots.
2. You can wait a few years for the little trunk to increase slightly in diameter on the premise that the larger trunk will produce more stems.
* It is impossible in a brief off-the-cuff overview like this to go into too much detail, as it all depends so much on species, soil quality and other environmental factors, micro-climate and rainfall, growth rate, etc.
The way you form your stools also depends on what you want to use the wood for. If you just want firewood or charcoal , it does not matter too much in what direction the shoots arise from the cut trunk. If you want a maximum amount of straight poles, it helps to have a larger diameter when you first cut the trunk, so the shoots around it have room to grow upward to the light.
* The most important things is to create healthy productive stools, which will last and are not easily prone to disease. Learn good pruning techniques. Always make clean cuts with a slight slant to let water run off and avoid half torn limbs. Consult a pruning book or google for good pruning advice on the Internet to become familiar with the biology of the best place to make the cut when you are pruning back shoots or cut off branches.
* Whether you start forming your stools early or wait a little longer, at some you will to decide when to begin your rotation. First of all you need to decide the timespan of your rotation, which is determined by the size of wood you want to harvest and the growth rate which your particular soil, climate & tree species can achieve.

Examples:
In a 7 year rotation, you harvest a seventh of your woodland every year.
In an 8 year rotation you harvest an eighth of your woodland every year.
In an 9 year rotation you harvest a ninth of your woodland every year.
In an 10 year rotation you harvest a tenth of your woodland every year.
And so on............

* Suppose you have decided to rotate on an 8 year basis:
Will you divide up your woodland into obvious sections to be harvested successively each year or will you cut every 8th tree or work more random than that?
* Once you have made that decision just start harvesting one-eighth of your woodland each winter.
This results of course in a situation where after 8 years you will have stools with shoots that are at 8 different stages of development.
Sizes of the shoots may vary of course with different species.

Willow coppices are often managed differently, both because they grow so fast and also because the willow is used for different purposes. A willow coppice (which could be just a field with rows of willow stools), could be cut each year to obtain canes for basket making. Some of it may be left for 2 years to obtain stouter canes for the upright in basket.

Nowadays we see an increasing amount of willow coppices, which are cut on a 3 or 4 year rotation for biomass fuel.

THE END.

Billy, need a drink now.
 
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