Advice on New Wood Stove

Kruegerw · Jul 29, 2012

I am currently in the market for a new wood stove. I currently have a Qudrafire 4300 step-top which is less than 6 years old but is coming apart inside. Quadafire has told me that I have over-fired it therefore, it is not under warranty, I am not happy. I heat my 3000 sq ft home with wood and need to replace my stove before the temperature starts to drop. I have a lined 6" flu 38' tall. I need a stove that will handle at least 20" logs, 6" flu pipe, heat up to 3000 sq ft. The unit needs to be a free standing stove. Not looking for a piece of furniture, looking for an applicance that will heat my house and last but not break the bank either. Burn oak, walnut, hackberry, locust, and elm - all seasoned and dry.

Any suggestions?

Looked at Qudrafire 5700 but not too excited to give Quadrafire additional busines, also looked at a Jotul F50TL, Pacific Energy Summitt, and Heathstone Mansfield.

begreen · Jul 29, 2012

As you have discovered, in an area with cold winters, a bigger stove will required. The 4300 is rated 2400 sq ft maximum. My concern is whether going up just .5 cu ft will be enough. The restriction here is the 6" flue. There are a lot of choices starting with the Englander 30NC on up. Maybe look at the Enerzone Solution 3.4 too?

http://enerzone-intl.com/product.aspx?CategoId=1&Id=443

PS: How high are the ceilings in the house? If they are cathedral, maybe consider a wood furnace like a Caddy?

Kruegerw · Jul 29, 2012

begreen said:
As you have discovered, in an area with cold winters, a bigger stove will required. The 4300 is rated 2400 sq ft maximum. My concern is whether going up just .5 cu ft will be enough. The restriction here is the 6" flue. There are a lot of choices starting with the Englander 30NC on up. Maybe look at the Enerzone Solution 3.4 too?

http://enerzone-intl.com/product.aspx?CategoId=1&Id=443

PS: How high are the ceilings in the house? If they are cathedral, maybe consider a wood furnace like a Caddy?

The 4300 Qudrafire is located in a finished basement with approximately 1200 sq ft. This is where we spend most of our time in the winter. We burn the stove 24/7 from the time the outdoor temp stays around 40 until we average 50+ or from October through March (mid-west). The stairway is open to approximatly 2200 sq ft upstairs. The stove downstairs keeps the basement around 80 degrees which my wife loves and the upstairs around 68. The basement ceilings are 10' and the upstairs are 12-16' depending on the room. I also have a Arrow hearth insert upstairs that I burn when the temp gets below 30 to keep things comfortable. With both units running I can maintain 80 upstairs and downstairs but go through some wood. Typically, I go through 4 cords of wood each winter.

begreen · Jul 29, 2012

First, welcome to the forums Kruegerw.

I'd like to know more about the 4300's issues. What exactly has failed and where? Can you post some pictures of the "overfire" condition? What temperature on the stove top is the stove normally run at?

"keeps the basement around 80 degrees which my wife loves"

That explains a lot, ;lol

LOL. At 75 my wife is starting to open windows. Are the basement walls insulated?

Kruegerw · Jul 29, 2012

begreen said:
First, welcome to the forums Kruegerw.

I'd like to know more about the 4300's issues. What exactly has failed and where? Can you post some pictures of the "overfire" condition? What temperature on the stove top is the stove normally run at?

"keeps the basement around 80 degrees which my wife loves"

That explains a lot, LOL. At 75 my wife is starting to open windows. Are the basement walls insulated?

Kruegerw · Jul 29, 2012

I have uploaded a couple of photos. The stainless steel tubes have sagged down and as a result from loading for overnight have been bent and two have fallen out. Also, from loading, several bricks are broken. But the largest problem is the air tube in the back is split and has a 2" x 1" hole. I can replace the brick and possibly the air tubes, but the crack in the jacket on the rear is not repairable. The damage is seen in the photos above = Looks like a "T" and the damage is where the "T" connects vertically and horizontally. Quadrafire has said the unit has been too hot (overfired). I agree it has been hot but not with intent to damage the unit - again, I burn wood to get heat - apparently this unit can not handle 24/7 use.

begreen · Jul 29, 2012

Hmm, tell us more about the crack in the jacket. Overfiring can also be caused by too much air. If this is from an air leak, it may have been out of your control.

Have the sides been taken off to look at this from the exterior of the stove? Also, was the door checked for air leaks around the gasket?

Kruegerw · Jul 29, 2012

begreen said:
Hmm, tell us more about the crack in the jacket. Have the sides been taken off to look at this from the exterior of the stove? Also, has the door been checked for air leaks around the gasket?

To my knowledge, the exterior steel plate is not damaged, just the internal componets. The hole in the "T" across the back is an air tube. I been told that with the hole, the stove will still function, but not as designed. Eventually, the exterior may warp. Currently, the exterior shows no sign of being too hot other than the label on the back of the stove has discolored and begin to shrink up. Actually, I burnt the stove in this condition most of last winter knowing it was damaged and less efficient but it still produced heat.

Kruegerw · Jul 29, 2012

Is there a stove that will take the heat?

DexterDay · Jul 29, 2012

That "T" is the secondary air inlet. With the tubes not being connected, and holes wide open, that is allowing for a Giant air leak. Which will cause for a Hot Fire. Add in a possible bad door gasket (As BG suggested above) and there may be No controlling a fire inside of it..

Did the Air control still seem to Function? Could you still shut the stove down with the Primary air?

What stove top temps were you running? Did you have a magnetic thermometer on it?

Also, how long was your wood seasoned (after splitting)?

There are some good stove out there. They are all designed to be used and pushed a little. But if the temps are not watched, and its subjected to overfire situations often, then no stove will last long.

Having a good idea of stove temp is key to the proper operation of a modern wood stove. Its another tool needed to ensure safe, proper, and efficient operation. Its like a speedometer on your car. You can drive without one, but one is needed to abide by the laws.

Englander 30-NC is a Solid stove that wont break the bank. Jotul Rangley is another good model. PE Alderlea T-5 and T-6 are very nice models. There steel stoves with Cast jackets. Heatilator makes a nice model that is similar in size (WS-22?). Blaze King Princess is a Very Nice Cat stove that boasts burn times up to 24 hrs (no joke, people here do it all the time) and has a 6" flue..

The wood needed for new stoves should be Cut/Split/ Stacked for a minimum of 1 yr and 2 to 3 yrs is better.. Getting to 2-3 yrs ahead on your wood supply is one of the things that is quickly taught here. Also knowing that it takes Oak 2-3 yrs to properly season (below 15%-20% moisture content) is another lesson learned from this site... Lots of knowledge to be had here. Lots.......

Welcome to the Forums.

Todd · Jul 29, 2012

Your 38' chimney is probably the culprit of the overfires. Install a pipe damper to slow that draft down.

begreen · Jul 29, 2012

Todd said:
Your 38' chimney is probably the culprit of the overfires. Install a pipe damper to slow that draft down.

Good catch Todd. I missed that. The stove probably is drafting like a freight train.

Kruegerw said:
Is there a stove that will take the heat?

This may not be the stove's fault. Very strong draft can cause the stove to continuously overfire. The gasket imprint on the face of the stove leads me to suspect a leaky door gasket.

DexterDay · Jul 29, 2012

Rot said:
I am looking for a new wood stove after 20 years using a non airtight franklin stove.I am leaning towards a Vermont Castings defiant 2n1.Does anybody have one and how do you like it.

To get the best answer to your question. You should start a new thread asking that question. That way someone who owns one, sees the title with the stove name.

Or try the search function above. Lots of advice here on VC's stoves.

Welcome to the Forums.

Todd said:
Your 38' chimney is probably the culprit of the overfires. Install a pipe damper to slow that draft down.

Yep... Add an air leak or 2....!....!.....!!

kingquad · Jul 29, 2012

Get a couple thermometers when you get the new stove. One for stove top and one for the flue. If your running double wall pipe, get a probe thermometer.

Kruegerw · Jul 29, 2012

DexterDay said:
That "T" is the secondary air inlet. With the tubes not being connected, and holes wide open, that is allowing for a Giant air leak. Which will cause for a Hot Fire. Add in a possible bad door gasket (As BG suggested above) and there may be No controlling a fire inside of it..

Did the Air control still seem to Function? Could you still shut the stove down with the Primary air?

What stove top temps were you running? Did you have a magnetic thermometer on it?

Also, how long was your wood seasoned (after splitting)?

There are some good stove out there. They are all designed to be used and pushed a little. But if the temps are not watched, and its subjected to overfire situations often, then no stove will last long.

Having a good idea of stove temp is key to the proper operation of a modern wood stove. Its another tool needed to ensure safe, proper, and efficient operation. Its like a speedometer on your car. You can drive without one, but one is needed to abide by the laws.

Englander 30-NC is a Solid stove that wont break the bank. Jotul Rangley is another good model. PE Alderlea T-5 and T-6 are very nice models. There steel stoves with Cast jackets. Heatilator makes a nice model that is similar in size (WS-22?). Blaze King Princess is a Very Nice Cat stove that boasts burn times up to 24 hrs (no joke, people here do it all the time) and has a 6" flue..

The wood needed for new stoves should be Cut/Split/ Stacked for a minimum of 1 yr and 2 to 3 yrs is better.. Getting to 2-3 yrs ahead on your wood supply is one of the things that is quickly taught here. Also knowing that it takes Oak 2-3 yrs to properly season (below 15%-20% moisture content) is another lesson learned from this site... Lots of knowledge to be had here. Lots.......

Welcome to the Forums.

Based on the pictures of the stove, could a piece of flat bar be welded over the hole in the secondary air intake, new fire brick added to replace the broken bricks, and if Quadrafire offers new tubes, install them along with a new door gasket to create a stove that is safe to operate and efficient. Also, is sounds like I should add a damper to my flue pipe and a thermometer to the flue pipe. If I can spend a few hundred dollars vs several thousand, I would prefer to go this route even though the 4300 is probably too small of unit for my needs.

What is the range of temps for the flue pipe?

kingquad · Jul 29, 2012

Kruegerw said:
Based on the pictures of the stove, could a piece of flat bar be welded over the hole in the secondary air intake, new fire brick added to replace the broken bricks, and if Quadrafire offers new tubes, install them along with a new door gasket to create a stove that is safe to operate and efficient. Also, is sounds like I should add a damper to my flue pipe and a thermometer to the flue pipe. If I can spend a few hundred dollars vs several thousand, I would prefer to go this route even though the 4300 is probably too small of unit for my needs.

What is the range of temps for the flue pipe?

Why spend thousands? You can get an Englander 30 shipped to your door for $649. It's about the same size as the quad 5700. There are TONS of happy owners here.

Are you running single or double wall flue pipe?

begreen · Jul 29, 2012

Based on the pictures of the stove, could a piece of flat bar be welded over the hole in the secondary air intake...

Maybe, but I wouldn't expect too much. The metal has been super heated all winter. For an alternative I would get an Englander 30NC and by all means run it with a flue pipe key damper, probably fully closed once the stove is warmed up. With this situation a flue thermometer and a stove top thermometer would be advisable as well as a close eye on the fire. Flue temps will vary with the stage of the fire and the stove. Try to keep the flue below 700F during the peak of the burn cycle. Stove top will be between 500 and 600F typically, but also varies with the stove.

How does the connector pipe look on the stove? If it has been running continuously at high temps (over 900F) I would also replace it.

Dr. Richards · Jul 29, 2012

kingquad said:
Why spend thousands? You can get an Englander 30 shipped to your door for $649. It's about the same size as the quad 5700. There are TONS of happy owners here.

Are you running single or double wall flue pipe?

Where can I get the NC 30 delivered for $649?

DexterDay · Jul 29, 2012

The zip code may have changed now. But they are out there.

Dozens here have bought them at that price. BrotherBart bought a 2nd NC-30 this year!!

Check here... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-zip-code-dealio.83640/

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