Installing my EWB-150, a few questions.

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Cornell3786

Member
Sep 5, 2012
36
Roscommon, Mi
My garage is about 15' from my house. I ran two 1" o2 barrier pex lines insulated and in conduit from the boiler to the house.

The piping on the boiler is 2'' supply and return.
The EBW dealer said it would be okay to neck them down to 1'', as 2'' is overkill unless you are heating a lot, a long ways away.

What are your thoughts on that?

I have a 1'' primary loop with a circulating pump with check valve, and 1'' secondary loop with check valve.

The Circulating loop (primary loop) is supposed to kick off at 150* and the Secondary loop to kick on at 150*

Sound right?


I understand plumbing, but have no idea about the chimney.

My manual tells me what type of chimney and what draft is needed. I have no idea what they are talking about when they say:

"Connect only to a flue or chimney capable of maintaining a negative draft of between .02”w.c. min. and .05”w.c. max. at all times and conditions."

Can someone clarify this please?

Thank you in advance and sorry if i am asking questions that have already been answered, I searched for econoburn boilers and didnt see anything that pertained to this.
 
For what it's worth I don't think you'll ever be able to move 150,000 BTU through a 1" run of pex. You'll find gobs of threads on this site regarding undersized pex runs but I've never heard anyone complain about oversizing!

If I were in your shoes I'd run two 1" lines per side, 4 lines total. Someday you may want to add more loads to your setup or even add storage. As your total demand inches closer to the capacity of a 1" line you will become increasingly more frustrated with your setup.

Chimney draft can be measured with a manometer. It's basically a measure of how much air is moving through your chimney. Proper draft is exceedingly important but if you go to proper (code) heights and don't have any huge buildings or oddities nearby you should be fine.

Since the interweb is a permanent database of all things posted you may want to stop calling your garage a "garage" and now call it a "wood storage facility". Wood heating applicances in garages are big no-no's most of the time, unless you wall off the boiler in it's own room.
 
Dammer that does make sense. I guess that is a bridge I will have to cross when I get there, as I have already poured concrete back in the floor and buried it all in!

If I am allowed to put this boiler anywhere in my house, why would it be an issue to put it in my garage?
 
A 1" line has one quarter the capacity or cross sectional area that a 2" line does. That sounds like too much of a reduction to me - I think I would have run more capacity than that, just to be sure. It might work OK with the 1", but if it doesn't you'll be up against it right off the bat. Someone else with more experience in doing so could likely run some numbers and come up with how much GPM you'd have to run thru 1" to get rid of the heat output of the 150, given a certain temp drop across supply & return. But then that's without knowing anything about your heat loads and how much heat they'll handle.

What do you have for a chimney now? Or is that yet to be built? 0.02 to 0.05 is a decent range to work with and shouldn't require a big smoke stack. Mine goes over 0.1 with about 30ft of the insulated 7 inch stainless prefab chimney pipe stuff.
 
Dammer that does make sense. I guess that is a bridge I will have to cross when I get there, as I have already poured concrete back in the floor and buried it all in!

If I am allowed to put this boiler anywhere in my house, why would it be an issue to put it in my garage?

The idea is you (usually) don't store combustible fuel in your house where as your garage it's a given. Or at least that's what I've been told.

K
 
I have a chimney from an old wood stove its 6" I plan on ripping it out and opening it up for 8" pre fab. After posting I did find a few threads on the draft.

I'll set it up with a draft regulator and improve on it from there next year.

Man I sure hope it with be able to handle the heat, It was straight from econoburns tech line that said it would be okay. I did kind of feel like it was a little small myself that is why I asked for opinions.
 
[QU
The idea is you (usually) don't store combustible fuel in your house where as your garage it's a given. Or at least that's what I've been told.

K

I guess that makes sense. I definitely didnt plan on storing my diesel transfer tank next to the boiler haha but I understand the logic now.

My original plan was to build a boiler shed but opted to put it in my garage to save $$.

I'll be building a shed next year by the sounds of it.

Also, what is the best kind of glycol to use in the system? I work out of state and am on call 24/7. I know it reduces the efficiency, but i dont have any other way to keep it from freezing.

I have propane on backup
 
Your chimney costs on the boiler shed should be less than the garage. Sounds like a lot of re-work installing in the garage if you plan on the shed next year. Aren't you building the shed yourself, you still have time before winter? I'm the king of re-work it seems, but I always wish I would have done it right the first time.
 
I think you can put it in the garage if you partition if off in its own room with just an outside entrance to it.

That's just to be OK with insurance stuff - and just from what I've read on here about what others have done. I do know that if I had a garage (almost next on the to-do list), that is where I might most like to put mine. Almost.

Depending on how long you would be away in the winter, you might avoid glycol by having your circ run all the time, or on a timer when not there. If you heat the garage too, it should stay above freezing for a while if well insulated.

EDIT: And if their tech line OK'd the 1", sounds like you SHOULD be OK. I'd be interested in the results though, or experiences of others with 1".
 
What is the total (inside and outside the house) length of your 1" tube?

What type of system are you connecting to? A coil in your furnace? A radiant floor slab? hot water baseboard?

Those kind of things have a huge bearing on how many gallons per minutes you need to move. That more than anything else is what dictates the correct tube size.
 
Your chimney costs on the boiler shed should be less than the garage. Sounds like a lot of re-work installing in the garage if you plan on the shed next year. Aren't you building the shed yourself, you still have time before winter? I'm the king of re-work it seems, but I always wish I would have done it right the first time.

If I was home more I would have already built a shed and it would have been installed there in the first place. I work out of state and am on call 24/7. In west virginia currently. That is 12 hours from my house.

I probably would have time to build it before winter, but not install it, plumb it, and finish all the work I have to do with all my wood,

But anyway that is another topic I was just curious about those two questions and am grateful for the responses I have received.
 
I think you can put it in the garage if you partition if off in its own room with just an outside entrance to it.

That's just to be OK with insurance stuff - and just from what I've read on here about what others have done. I do know that if I had a garage (almost next on the to-do list), that is where I might most like to put mine. Almost.

Depending on how long you would be away in the winter, you might avoid glycol by having your circ run all the time, or on a timer when not there. If you heat the garage too, it should stay above freezing for a while if well insulated.

EDIT: And if their tech line OK'd the 1", sounds like you SHOULD be OK. I'd be interested in the results though, or experiences of others with 1".

I could be gone anywhere from a few days to a few weeks at a time, Glycol seems like the only logical way to install in my situation.
 
What is the total (inside and outside the house) length of your 1" tube?

What type of system are you connecting to? A coil in your furnace? A radiant floor slab? hot water baseboard?

Those kind of things have a huge bearing on how many gallons per minutes you need to move. That more than anything else is what dictates the correct tube size.

It is about 15-20' from the boiler to my secondary loop in my basement. total piping i am expecting, feed and return, to be around 35'-40'. Lets say 50' just to be safe.

It is going to a coil in my furnace plenum.

I have it plumbed in for a circulator to be on the primary(near boiler) loop and also a circulator feeding my secondary loop.

Primary kicks on when water temp reaches 150*(or whatever i end up setting it at after i see what works best) at that time primary shuts down and secondary will kick on until water needs to be re-heated.

I have a three speed grundfos and a taco 007 both with check valves.

Grundfos is primary pump taco is secondary.

I understand the pumps will consume electricity. Right now I have two 50 gallon ELECTRIC water heaters haha so i dont think it will be as bad as those energy hogs.(hopefully)

Do you think i am going to run into an issue?
 
RIGHT ^^^^^^ what he said, the ::DTt or cahnge in temperature dictates flow. 1" pex is generally good for about 7.5gpm (based on 4'/second flow) more than that and you need a really (read: watt hungry and expensive) circulator.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-EgzoB9D4kQC&pg=PA523&lpg=PA523&dq=hydronic flow of 1" pex&source=bl&ots=3jlCqJ3G8h&sig=f4IWfC2x27bx-cHX13ywAcDFNZ0&hl=en#v=onepage&q=hydronic flow of 1" pex&f=false

Some good reading for these forumulas.

TS

Thank you for the link, I am heading there to read up right now!
 
Thank you for the link, I am heading there to read up right now!
I tried the equation and it shows that i need 3000 gpm haha definitely didnt do that one right. that stuff is way over my head.
 
Generally speaking.... most design for a 20 degree deltaT. This means if your boiler supplies 180 degree water it "gives up" 20 degrees and comes back at 160. With this general number you need 1gpm for 10,000 btus. Therefore 150,000 btus would need to have 15gpm of flow with a 20::DTt. Since we are heating storage and this 150,000 is the MAX output of the boiler we can conservitivly say you really need more like 11-13gpm... larger ::DTt and less than 150,000 btus need to be moved through the water. Shows a table for 1" pex at 4' per second it's 7.5gpm, way less than even the minimum of 11.
Still you need more than 1"pex....

TS
 
Generally speaking.... most design for a 20 degree deltaT. This means if your boiler supplies 180 degree water it "gives up" 20 degrees and comes back at 160. With this general number you need 1gpm for 10,000 btus. Therefore 150,000 btus would need to have 15gpm of flow with a 20::DTt. Since we are heating storage and this 150,000 is the MAX output of the boiler we can conservitivly say you really need more like 11-13gpm... larger ::DTt and less than 150,000 btus need to be moved through the water. Shows a table for 1" pex at 4' per second it's 7.5gpm, way less than even the minimum of 11.
Still you need more than 1"pex....

TS


I concur with that opinion. 1" will limit the flow you need unless you resort to a pump that will nudge the electrical draw of your water heaters ;)
 
Thanks for the insight.
 
Pump wattage is not considered by most, but the electrical cost can be quite large. A 70watt taco 007 running 24-7 eats 50.4 Kwh. Take a 200W pump which you'd need to get the water through 1" pex at the gpm you need. If it runs 12 hours/ day or a 50% duty cycle it costs you 72 Kwh depending on your electric rate around $10/ month for my electric rate. figure how many months and how many years and the added cost of that pump up front compaired to a smaller one and you quickly see why 1.25" is pretty much the smallest pipa anyone would want for any length of boiler piping with a 100K+ btu boiler. Most zone-by-circulator hydronic systems have at least one pump running at all times sometimes two, costine $10-20/ month let alone the burner or combustion fan on the boiler itself.
Something to think about.

TS
 
Pump wattage is not considered by most, but the electrical cost can be quite large. A 70watt taco 007 running 24-7 eats 50.4 Kwh. Take a 200W pump which you'd need to get the water through 1" pex at the gpm you need. If it runs 12 hours/ day or a 50% duty cycle it costs you 72 Kwh depending on your electric rate around $10/ month for my electric rate. figure how many months and how many years and the added cost of that pump up front compaired to a smaller one and you quickly see why 1.25" is pretty much the smallest pipa anyone would want for any length of boiler piping with a 100K+ btu boiler. Most zone-by-circulator hydronic systems have at least one pump running at all times sometimes two, costine $10-20/ month let alone the burner or combustion fan on the boiler itself.
Something to think about.

TS

Yeah it makes perfect sense. I wish the boiler dealer was more knowledgeable on his product, I used it because its what he sent me with my boiler.

I'll have a few things to re-do next summer. I appreciate the helpful tips and knowledge everyone is providing!
 
My electric bill is around 40-50/ month right now with two 50 gallon electric water heaters running. Granted I am not home too often, but it doesnt seem to change much even when I am.

I am hoping having those things offline will offset it enough to make due this season!
 
That is not bad at all, here our rate was $0.17 pre Kwh. It dropped this summer to $0.145 it costs $45/ month just to run one 40gal electric water heater here.......... Trust me it's been discussed in past threads, I even took a pic of my electric bill because it was not believed. Anyhow, what is your rate?

TS
 
That is not bad at all, here our rate was $0.17 pre Kwh. It dropped this summer to $0.145 it costs $45/ month just to run one 40gal electric water heater here.......... Trust me it's been discussed in past threads, I even took a pic of my electric bill because it was not believed. Anyhow, what is your rate?

TS
I'm not too sure to be honest. I am 12so hours from the house on a drilling rig right now haha I can't look either. It stays a consistent price though. Ill be glad when I get this boiler running and dialed in
 
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