Nice hearth! It looks happy sitting there. Why two thermometers on the flue instead of one on the stove top and one on the flue pipe?
Have NC30, need more stove
- Thread starter wildlandfirefighterswife
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Black Jaque Janaviac
Feeling the Heat
How severe are your winters? Once November/December roll around do you see the mercury get above freezing? I've heard those mountain states can have totally different climates just traveling a couple hours.
If you have a 6000 sq foot house and you're using less than 3 cords through a rather severe winter - I think you've just about maxed out your efficiency. What were you hoping for? To just pick up one of those bundles at the convenience store and heat through the winter on that?
If you have a 6000 sq foot house and you're using less than 3 cords through a rather severe winter - I think you've just about maxed out your efficiency. What were you hoping for? To just pick up one of those bundles at the convenience store and heat through the winter on that?
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Well, there's always this: http://jaroby.com/index.php?page=fiche&no=26&cat=1
I have skimmed both threads, and see statements of "6000 sq.ft.", "4400 sq.ft. finished", and "7400 sq.ft. total". There's a lot of range in those numbers, but in any case, I can't imagine heating a house that size from a single "space heater".
Then again, I can understand why you did not choose a boiler or furnace, as we chose against that ourselves. My figuring is that if I'm going to work that hard to scrounge, cut, split, and move all that wood, I want to look at a fire, damnit!
Why would you not have a multiple stove plan for a space that expansive? No matter how many BTU's you generate in the room with the stove, it must be difficult to circulate that heat to the far reaches of that home.
I have skimmed both threads, and see statements of "6000 sq.ft.", "4400 sq.ft. finished", and "7400 sq.ft. total". There's a lot of range in those numbers, but in any case, I can't imagine heating a house that size from a single "space heater".
Then again, I can understand why you did not choose a boiler or furnace, as we chose against that ourselves. My figuring is that if I'm going to work that hard to scrounge, cut, split, and move all that wood, I want to look at a fire, damnit!
Why would you not have a multiple stove plan for a space that expansive? No matter how many BTU's you generate in the room with the stove, it must be difficult to circulate that heat to the far reaches of that home.
It seems the NC30 is doing a great job for what you are asking it to do. What are you looking to gain with a different stove, more heat, longer time between loads, or of course both? A stove significantly bigger than the nc30 is going to take an 8" flue.
The photo of the hearth looks beautiful, and it appears that it goes to the outside through that 12" of concrete wall. Is the rest of the chimney outside? If it is, have you had a mason or chimney installer actually quote what it would cost to rough out the extra space needed for the 8" flue? Or has been suggested, another stove in another location, and chimney through the roof.
Those are the only choices I can see to adding what you need, which is a larger stove, or an additional stove. I would be adding a second stove through the roof if I could find the right location to do so.
The photo of the hearth looks beautiful, and it appears that it goes to the outside through that 12" of concrete wall. Is the rest of the chimney outside? If it is, have you had a mason or chimney installer actually quote what it would cost to rough out the extra space needed for the 8" flue? Or has been suggested, another stove in another location, and chimney through the roof.
Those are the only choices I can see to adding what you need, which is a larger stove, or an additional stove. I would be adding a second stove through the roof if I could find the right location to do so.
I've looked at the NC 30 manual and specs....no expert here, but the firebox is 3.5 cu ft, and the co records in house testing resulting in 75000 BTU's per hour (doesn't give any details of the testing, or of burn times per load). The PH has a 2.8 cu ft firebox and produces that many BTUs easily with hardwood...and has long burn times producing the high BTU's...twelve hours easy. My personal experience last winter was significant improved efficiency with the PH over my previous stove, a Fireview, and a much warmer, more comfortable home. So I would expect the PH would give you greater efficiency than the NC 30, and provide you with more BTUs. I suspect much less heat is lost up the chimney with this stove.
HOWEVER, the PH is a LOT more expensive than the NC 30. The questions would be whether the difference in cost and increased high BTU burn times cause you significantly less use of alternative fuel, increase your living convenience, and don't have a significant negative effect on you financial situation. If money is no object and you'd like to try something different, I'd say go for a PH. You might like it more, find it more convenient, get a bit more heat , and find it somewhat more efficient.
Before getting a second stove and putting in a new chimney and going through the roof of a really energy efficient home, I personally would go the route of trying the PH, while keeping the NC 30 in storage. If you were really close to meeting all your needs with the NC 30, then the small additional heat you would likely get from the PH might do the trick. If not, you could always reinstall the NC 30 in the basement and install the PH upstairs at a later date....
The other significant factor is we don't know what your winter was like last year. Most of us had very mild winters. Could the NC 30 handle your home quite well on the really cold days? This coming winter, if more normal, might be a much better indicator to you of what you atually need to heat your home....
HOWEVER, the PH is a LOT more expensive than the NC 30. The questions would be whether the difference in cost and increased high BTU burn times cause you significantly less use of alternative fuel, increase your living convenience, and don't have a significant negative effect on you financial situation. If money is no object and you'd like to try something different, I'd say go for a PH. You might like it more, find it more convenient, get a bit more heat , and find it somewhat more efficient.
Before getting a second stove and putting in a new chimney and going through the roof of a really energy efficient home, I personally would go the route of trying the PH, while keeping the NC 30 in storage. If you were really close to meeting all your needs with the NC 30, then the small additional heat you would likely get from the PH might do the trick. If not, you could always reinstall the NC 30 in the basement and install the PH upstairs at a later date....
The other significant factor is we don't know what your winter was like last year. Most of us had very mild winters. Could the NC 30 handle your home quite well on the really cold days? This coming winter, if more normal, might be a much better indicator to you of what you atually need to heat your home....
hilbiliarkiboi
Member
The law of diminishing returns (stove r&d) coupled with the marginal costs of replacing the stove(for a few pts. on the effi. scale) vs: the very reasonable fuel usage makes me think the furnace(ugly?) would be an improvement at the expense of an acceptable looking appliance. Whew
Most of our cold months are 20-30, we dip down lower but usually only for a few days. getting to the occasional -3
We did not design the house, if we did it would have had 8"pipe. It is not just drilling the hole, but a steel sleeve has to be put through the wall, and the one that is there has to come out ;( Yes, we like to see fire, however with the extended fire season I am not sure that my husband hasn't had his fill of it for the year!
You want me to go to France to get a stove
The numbers are not exact and for the winter, there are parts of the house we don't try to heat....so...
http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_CedarCity5E_CedarCity_UT_January.html
I was hoping some PH owners would chime in...I am just a little nervous about cats in a SHTF scenario. Yeah, I know, there is just no pleasing some folks. So we did use more wood, about another 3 racks. I had forgotten about the wood that had been stacked on the side of the house, but it was mostly Aspen, and it burnt fast.
It's late, and darned if i can figure out what SHTF stands for. You should not be nervous about cats. They are not dangerous, and they are not difficult to use. I have found the PH to be very safe and forgiving of the occasional operator error and/or inattention.
Like yours, my home stays very comfortable in the summer. We must have had over 60 days above 90 and the house never got above 75, until I decided to light up the PH to preserve garden produce...Only used a fan a few days, and then only after strenuous outdoor activity. just to cool us, not the house.
Our climate is colder than yours by a good twenty degrees, with deepest lows being around 30 below, and average being around 0 at night. We heat 3200 feet, used significantly less wood than you last year.
Sounds like you burned between three and four full cords last year. That is not an excessive amount of wood for a 6000 square foot house. You indicate you were almost able to keep the home warm with wood alone. I stand by my statement above. Every house is different. Only you know if you were comfortable. If you came quite close to meeting your needs with the NC 30 and 3-4 cords, then I think it is reasonable as a first step to try a more efficient stove capable of producing longer burn times and higher heat output per pound of wood....So I stand by my recommendation above. As long as you are not expecting miracles, and need only a marginal increase in heat and longer burn times, why not go for it and try another stove?
Like yours, my home stays very comfortable in the summer. We must have had over 60 days above 90 and the house never got above 75, until I decided to light up the PH to preserve garden produce...Only used a fan a few days, and then only after strenuous outdoor activity. just to cool us, not the house.
Our climate is colder than yours by a good twenty degrees, with deepest lows being around 30 below, and average being around 0 at night. We heat 3200 feet, used significantly less wood than you last year.
Sounds like you burned between three and four full cords last year. That is not an excessive amount of wood for a 6000 square foot house. You indicate you were almost able to keep the home warm with wood alone. I stand by my statement above. Every house is different. Only you know if you were comfortable. If you came quite close to meeting your needs with the NC 30 and 3-4 cords, then I think it is reasonable as a first step to try a more efficient stove capable of producing longer burn times and higher heat output per pound of wood....So I stand by my recommendation above. As long as you are not expecting miracles, and need only a marginal increase in heat and longer burn times, why not go for it and try another stove?
I am amused by this thread.
I'm close to believing WLFF Wife is trolling. If so, Kudos to you!
If not, you must be south of I-15, St. George or a lot lower. Your NC-30 is doing it's job, you need to look at another stove on your main floor. A pretty stove with a 6" flue requirement going straight up through the roof should fit the bill. I don't see a need for coring a concrete wall , unless it's really sandstone, in which case we need to see a floor plan to help.
Keep stacking wood.
edit- I burn Pine and Aspen , and.........yeah.
I'm close to believing WLFF Wife is trolling. If so, Kudos to you!
If not, you must be south of I-15, St. George or a lot lower. Your NC-30 is doing it's job, you need to look at another stove on your main floor. A pretty stove with a 6" flue requirement going straight up through the roof should fit the bill. I don't see a need for coring a concrete wall , unless it's really sandstone, in which case we need to see a floor plan to help.
Keep stacking wood.
edit- I burn Pine and Aspen , and.........yeah.
Believe it or not, that is up to you....I am 50 miles north of St. George. Elevation is 5800 ft.
6 inch chimney? Need more stove? How about this unit? http://www.kent.ca/kbs/en/product.jsp?prdId=7160000&skuId=7160000&catalogId=1206
I wish to hell I could tell you I know someone who operates that thing, but it's the biggest non-cat stove that I've seen that uses a 6 in flue.
If anything funky happens with my 30, I'm having that kent delivered to the house. Considering the price, I think it's worth trying even without reviews.
Just thought I'd share, as I said, wish I could say I knew more about it, but I'm sincerely hoping you give it a go and give us the feedback as there wind up being a good many people in this same boat.
ETA: considering you are in Utah, and these dealers seem to be north of the big border, it may be a long shot.
pen
I wish to hell I could tell you I know someone who operates that thing, but it's the biggest non-cat stove that I've seen that uses a 6 in flue.
If anything funky happens with my 30, I'm having that kent delivered to the house. Considering the price, I think it's worth trying even without reviews.
Just thought I'd share, as I said, wish I could say I knew more about it, but I'm sincerely hoping you give it a go and give us the feedback as there wind up being a good many people in this same boat.
ETA: considering you are in Utah, and these dealers seem to be north of the big border, it may be a long shot.
pen
I swear kent supply used to ship them here, but tonight, after posting the link, I see it is "in store only" and I can't find a distributer in the US.
It's a shame, as it looks interesting being EPA approved in Canada and taking 25 inch wood, heating over 3000 sqft w/ that 6in chimney.
pen
Swedishchef
Minister of Fire
Quite a thread.
I gotta agree with others, get a furnace or another space heater. There's nothing out there that will beat what you have going...
That JA Roby Ultimate is made in nova scotia. They sell them at my local hardware store. I don't know much about them but at that price I would be willing to give one a try...someone want to lend me $1500?? lol
A
I gotta agree with others, get a furnace or another space heater. There's nothing out there that will beat what you have going...
That JA Roby Ultimate is made in nova scotia. They sell them at my local hardware store. I don't know much about them but at that price I would be willing to give one a try...someone want to lend me $1500?? lol
A
BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
I think you are putting too much value in the BTU ratings. They mean so little when it comes to actual burning. There are a few manufacturers that claim 100,000 BTUs from smaller fireboxes than the PH. Doesn't mean they heat better.
Keep in mind, the OP is only using 2.25 cord of wood. Not exactly a lot of wood by anyone's measurements.
Nothing wrong with the PH, but in this particular instance, wouldn't just moving up to the BK King make more sense?
My opinion on this is that trying to heat 6,000+ sq ft with one stove is going to be tough. For more even heat a second heat source would seem to be the way to go.
Now that location is narrowed down, a rough floor plan would be nice. Pictures of the upper levels? This would be for my benefit also, I have friends in your neighborhood who are looking into burning wood for heat also.
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