Kindling and FireStarters

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Huntindog1

Minister of Fire
Dec 6, 2011
1,879
South Central Indiana
Wanted to spark some thoughts on this subject as I think some people may think of this differently.

These newer type EPA Certified stoves are alot different that stoves from years ago. They build the heat from having insulated fire boxes. They run on very little air which helps not to flush alot of heat up the chimney.

We have all seen posts about starting these stoves and how you got to get a feel for them as to get the best starts you need to learn how to gradually turn the primary air input down in increments. Plus know when to do turn the air input down from judging how the temps are, the stove top temps and flue temps and how much of a hot coal bed you loaded on.

From a cold start you dont have the coal bed to figure in. But you still have to learn how to gradually turn the air down to build the heat in the stove as less air gong thru the stove helps build the heat as less heat is getting flushed up the flue . Keeping the door cracked too long is fruitless as your not building heat in the stove and not building the heat as quickly. Some of us do crack the door for just a little bit to get things going but doing it too long will slow down the process of building the heat up in the stove.

So now to kindling and fire starters. The beauty of kindling and fire starters or both together is that very thinly split very dry kindling along with a fire starter like a super cedar will burn very easily. As in and here is the important point to remember is that since they burn so easily they will keep burning a lower air intake settings. So now you got a triple whammy, Stuff that will burn easily and burn hot/fast and burn at lower air intake settings and keep burning at those lower air intake settings . Which the lower intake air settings helps the stove retain the heat better and not flush as much of it up the flue. Now you can build the heat up in the stove really quick and really high level as the secondary burn tubes will ignite and start burning smoke gases for you one you get the heat up in the stove , like a 400-500 stove top temp.

Top down burns to start a cold stove works really good as you put the big splits on the bottom and build you a plat form up towards the top of the stove. What you are doing is filling up the open space in the stove with these splits leaving less space. Smaller spaces are easier to heat. So on top of your plat form which should now be up by the burn tubes you put your kindling and your super cedar fire starter. In the small space up there by the burn tubes the hot and fast burning kindling will quickly build the heat so hot that the bigger stuff the burning kindling is laying on will also ignite.

Trying to start a cold stove with just a little bit of wood is hard to do as you have much more open space in the stove that you have to build heat. The smaller space created by the top down method described above creates your own little burn chamber up in the top of the stove around the secondary air tubes that have air to feed the fire.
 
Trying to start a cold stove is not at all hard to do. These things have been hashed over many times on this forum and that is good. It is usually those with a new stove and the new burners who need a bit of help on this.
 
FTR I still can't get a top down start to work in a cold stove. I'm listening to this thread. :)
 
Mary, do you have trouble with draft with the cold stove? If so, that might be why. You might try lighting a couple sheets of newspapers to send a quick shot of warm up the chimney before you start. Or lay 1/4 of a super cedar in the flue and light it.
 
Very good thread lots of info.
 
use a blowtorch
 
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Backwoods, your right this post is for newbies, alot or people on this board lurking and never post.

Just trying to help those new guys/gals out..

The main point I wanted to make was that with good dry kindling and a good fire starter like super cedar. You can go a head and shut the air down some in increments as the super cedar and dry kindling will burn at lower air intake settings. This in turn at the lower air intake setting allows the stove to heat up quicker rather than at a wide open setting or the door cracked you will flush your heat up the flue more.

If you dont have super cedars try newspapers crumpled up on top of the kindling.

I think alot of newbies are only thinking getting the wood burning but i think a better way to think about it is how can I get the heat built up in the stove quicker.

As we all know with the door open wood can burn like heck but then you shut the door and things can go out, as you wasnt building the heat , it was just flushing up the flue.
 
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Well I'm a newbie this year too. I lit the first half dozen fires using what I "thought" was how you started a fire, crumpled paper, kindling on top then a few bigger pieces. While I got them going they definetly needed a little help, and had to keep the door open for a good 5 minutes.
I ended up reading about the "top down" teqnique on hear and watched that government of Canada video.
It has been about two dozen fires since and I'm still amazed at how well it works. My whole goal is to get the stove fool proof for my wife and the top down fire thing has really helped. We load the stove up and have it all ready to go. Now all we have to do is reach in, light the paper bows in a few spots, close the doors and DON'T TOUCH IT for about 4 to 5 hours. Add a few splits before bed and it's still warm with a few embers in the morning.

Can't tell you how happy I am with this approach now. Wife can't believe how easy it..
 
This isn't so much about how to start a fire, but a kindling question. I had a large portion of my cedar shingle/shake siding replaced. It was last painted about 15 years ago with a semi-transparent latex stain. The house was built in 1982 and the siding on the south side had weathered too much to be weatherproof any longer and so it was replaced with new. Is it safe, from an environmental standpoint, to use the old shingles for kindling? The stain is very weathered and only covers about 2/3 of one side.
 
Sherrie - I don't know what is in that stain so it is hard to say. When in doubt I don't burn it and anything that came in a can or bottle is generally doubtful to me. I'm sure you could get away with it in small quantities perhaps and not cause too much trouble, but again - it is hard to say what chemicals will be in your smoke for those outside to breath.

To the OP - I don't disagree with the key point of your post if it is indeed that you need to allow heat to build up in the stove as well as get the wood fully engulfed in flame. Generally speaking a more top-down approach goes a long way in doing this for me with minimal smoke. However the main thing is always going to come back to dry wood - whether kindling or the splits for main fuel. If it is really dry then starting, reloading, and burns in general will be easier and cleaner. If it is wet even kindling can be a pain - I split down some oak to <1" for kindling and then discovered it was still wet (bubbled when trying to burn it), not worth the bother, smoked and slow to start up. SC did get it going (naturally) but took too long by my standards and likely wouldn't have sustained a decent fire had there not been other splits that got going first (larger diameter but much dryer). As to air setting - I go full air to start and let the smoke in the box guide me to reducing. Some heat up the chimney is good - essential in fact - to establishing a solid draft. Each install is unique and once you learn your setup the weather will change and you have to adapt again until you learn to anticipate it better.
 
This isn't so much about how to start a fire, but a kindling question. I had a large portion of my cedar shingle/shake siding replaced. It was last painted about 15 years ago with a semi-transparent latex stain. The house was built in 1982 and the siding on the south side had weathered too much to be weatherproof any longer and so it was replaced with new. Is it safe, from an environmental standpoint, to use the old shingles for kindling? The stain is very weathered and only covers about 2/3 of one side.

No! Don't burn it. With the chemicals they use, you do not want that in the air and many stoves will not like it either; cat or non-cat type stove.
 
For sure Huntingdogs comment on the open door and the stove not heating up is spot on. I've gone over this many times on this forum and especially concerning the soapstone stoves. It is amazing how word spreads and over and over we read about how slow these rocks heat up. That is pure baloney. Yes, it does take a little longer than a steel or all cast stove, but not that much longer. However, in the past we found that many were leaving not only the door, but the draft full open until the stove got up to temperature. That is totally wrong!

When we start with a cold stove, if we leave the door ajar it is only for a couple minutes. With the draft, once the temperature gauge on the flue (single wall horizontal) hits 400, we turn the draft down 50%. This will allow the heat to stay in the stove rather than sending it all up the chimney. I see no good reason to attempt heating the great outdoors! Also, by the time our stove top is high enough to engage the catalyst, we have the draft down to about 25% and the lower it even more.
 
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I have found out also very recently that leaving the door cracked and draft open waste heat when it could be used further to heat my stove up.
 
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Slow1,

I found last year that the quality of the kindling makes a big difference, once I started making kindling out of really dry oak split to like 1" or less , I sure could tell there is alot of btu's in oak. If you want to get your stove up and going fast use some kindling like that and watch how fast your stove heats up , which in turns lets you get everything shut back down quicker for a long burn.
 
For those of you who have a hard time making top down work - you can try the modified top down:

Start with 2 big splits, one at the front and one at the back (for E-W, side side for N-S).
Stuff a bunch of newspapers between the splits.
Build you top down on top the the splits, I like to use thumb size kindling criss-crossed, 2-3 layers is enough
Put one small split on top of this at a diagonal.

As long as you get good draft this will take off like a blowtorch. As the kindling burns down the small coals fall in between the big splits and they take off.

Another trick if you still have trouble for E-W loading - dig a channel down the center of the ash bed before you lay the splits. This makes a kind of air tube allowing the intake air at the front of the stove to directly feed the developing core of the fire in between the big splits.
 
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jharkin,

Looks like your modified top down does a good job of getting more air flow by spreading things out. With the 2 big splits on the bottom with a space in between when the burning pieces fall down between them its like a small burn chamber for the heat to be focused and this adds to things taking off really good.
 
This morning i had the bowls of hell look in my stove and it was 500 on top of stove.

Edit. Three splits of black gum.
 
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Dennis and Slow1, thanks for your replies. Not what I wanted to hear about burning the stained cedar. I was hoping since it had weathered for 15 years that it would have leached all the poison stuff out already. But I can easily break off the stained part and burn the parts of the shingles that were unstained and under the upper rows.
 
Good luck Sherrie.
 
Well I'm a newbie this year too. I lit the first half dozen fires using what I "thought" was how you started a fire, crumpled paper, kindling on top then a few bigger pieces. While I got them going they definetly needed a little help, and had to keep the door open for a good 5 minutes.
I ended up reading about the "top down" teqnique on hear and watched that government of Canada video.
It has been about two dozen fires since and I'm still amazed at how well it works. My whole goal is to get the stove fool proof for my wife and the top down fire thing has really helped. We load the stove up and have it all ready to go. Now all we have to do is reach in, light the paper bows in a few spots, close the doors and DON'T TOUCH IT for about 4 to 5 hours. Add a few splits before bed and it's still warm with a few embers in the morning.

Can't tell you how happy I am with this approach now. Wife can't believe how easy it..

What stove do you have?
 
Thanks to the OP. I'm gonna give the top-down approach a try. It makes perfect sense as far as creating a small space to increase the heat at the burn tubes and keeping the primary air reduced. I know my stove pretty well after a year of ownership, so I'm thinking with good dry wood (KEY!) and a 1/4SC, things should get going quickly!
 
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