Wooddust said:
That looks like a cool little stove. I'm sure you'll master it in no time. Hope this thread is helpful to you.
Tips for Small Fire Boxes
- Thread starter dafattkidd
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That looks like a cool little stove. I'm sure you'll master it in no time. Hope this thread is helpful to you.
raiderfan
Feeling the Heat
Todd
Minister of Fire
wood-fan-atic
Minister of Fire
My firebox is 2.3 cu.ft. I have had so much more success with N/S than with E/W, its not even close. How deep is your stove, DaFattKidd? I have found that if I can PACK the stove full N/S (not easy E/W) on a good coal bed, and get it burning really nice( 15 minutes of 2/3 open air control) then shut it down completely, the stove burns great for at least an 8 hr overnight burn. I burned E/W all my life in a large Dutchwest cat, and I have found N/S to be easier to load, burn more evenly, and never have to worry about splits rolling into my glass. With careful planning, I can utilize almost ALL of the space in the firebox - this is so important in achieving maximum heat output for the longest time. I hope this helps. :coolsmile:
Thanks woodfanatic,
My firebox is only like 13 inches deep from firebrick to glass so 12-12.75" splits is the longest I'll get in there NS. I like NS burning so much better for the same reasons you stated. My manual recommends NS burning because of airflow, too. I only have maybe 1/5 of my wood cut for NS burns. I'm still experimenting, and trying to master both NS and EW burning in my small firebox.
My firebox is only like 13 inches deep from firebrick to glass so 12-12.75" splits is the longest I'll get in there NS. I like NS burning so much better for the same reasons you stated. My manual recommends NS burning because of airflow, too. I only have maybe 1/5 of my wood cut for NS burns. I'm still experimenting, and trying to master both NS and EW burning in my small firebox.
BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
DaFattKidd said:
I'll jump in with my Intrepid which allows for 16" splits and north/south would drive my insane cutting stuff down to 7"-8"... so, east/west it is.
From a cold start, which happens quite often (as in daily) I have taken to a modified top down method. I hated the top down method for the Vigilant and it seemed completely unnecessary. In fact I hated the threads that would go on and on about the "top down" method. But, damnit, it works really well for the Intrepid.
I put in one medium split and two to three small to medium splits on top. Then I put in a fire starter (Super Cedar, or what ever you choose) and then I put in a bunch of kindling on top. This year I am using broken up cedar shake shingles which are full of awesomeness. They light up really well. With the kindling in, the firebox is full. I then light the fire starter and with in 5-10 minutes the stove top is at 300-350°. Within 20 minutes It will be 600-650°. Depending upon how it is burning will determine when I engage the cat.
The first load of the day was put in two and a half hours ago. and I am still getting 550-600° temps, but it is slowly going down.
As far as burn times go, it is completely hit or miss. Occasionally I get these incredibly long burn times, but most of the time 3 to 4 hours is what I can expect. It is mostly do to the small firebox still having room, but I can't find the right puzzle pieces to get it full on a reload. Sometimes everything fits perfectly. Other times... not so much.
BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
BrowningBAR said:
I know this is off topic, but where are the stoves located? Are they your only source of heat? How many square feet are you heating with those beasts?
BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
DaFattKidd said:
Stove locations:
Intrepid: Kitchen
Vigilant: Summer kitchen (which is a treated like a family room/den). It is called a summer kitchen as it was originally an open room with a roof and a large fireplace for cooking. It would serve as the outdoor kitchen during the summer 200 years ago.
Heritage: Family room. This install takes place in two weeks. In fact I just sat down from tearing out a really old built in wall cabinet. The nails they used in that damn thing could have kept rail road ties in place. Brutal when it came to removing.
House is a 2200 sq ft old stone farm house.
Only source of heat? That's my goal. I do have a oil furnace, though. Floor plan is attached to give you an idea as to why I need three stoves for a relatively small floor plan. Quick answer is; I am not dealing with an open floor plan.
Attachments
precaud said:
what benefits does shutting down the secondaries provide when burning down coals?
burning down coals fast to get max heat out of doing so, is the bane of my existence right now.
this is my second season with my insert and i am learning how to master it. so far the coals are the only problem i have when it gets real cold. i need to reload with wood, but cant because the box is full of coals(well its got more coals than i would like, i could get a few more splits in if the coals were burned away.
burning down the coals lowers my stove temp and takes a long time, which means a colder house.
leeave96
Minister of Fire
To me, the key is hard wood like oak and locust - dead solid. Rounds seem to last longer than splits. Pack the stove, damper down.
My overnight burns are useful, but at some point during the night, the useful heat falls off and what's left over are nothing more than coals to re-kindle the fire next morning.
One nice thing about my stove is that I can extend the burn on a low damper setting with the cat and the soapstones continue to radiate heat after the fire has died down.
Bill
My overnight burns are useful, but at some point during the night, the useful heat falls off and what's left over are nothing more than coals to re-kindle the fire next morning.
One nice thing about my stove is that I can extend the burn on a low damper setting with the cat and the soapstones continue to radiate heat after the fire has died down.
Bill
precaud
Minister of Fire
When burning down coals, secondary air does not contribute in any way to the combustion you want, it does nothing but cool down the stove and chimney. What is needed is underfire air, pulled through the bed of coals, just as a dedicated coal stove does.par0thead151 said:
My X33 stove has this. It has an air control which switches from overfire (airwash) to underfire air in any ratio desired. I added a simple cutoff to the secondary air inlet. When I need to burn down built-up coals, I cut off the secondaries, switch to underfire air, and use the air control to regulate the burn rate. The stove does not cool down much while burning down the coals.
The Quad, on the other hand, has a brick bottom so I have to do the same as others are describing. I can tell you, it's an un-elegant solution compared to what the Nestor Martin provides.
precaud said:
my stove has a brick bottom as well. so the method of cutting off the secondaries would not apply for me then?
precaud
Minister of Fire
precaud said:
so when i plug the secondary air intake, i should slightly crack the door of the stove then to burn down the coals?
precaud
Minister of Fire
I thought maybe it would be helpful to report my findings so far experimenting a lot with what was said in this thread.
Here's what I'm having most success with long burns in my 1.7 CF firebox with what has been labeled on this site a less than desirable stove:
-Hot coal bed raked forward.
-Two big splits EW (side to side) one in the back and one in the middle
-smaller split that will catch and burn in front EW
-Let those catch. Then 3-4 NS on top of the burning EW. (with this I've used all EW but it doesn't seem to catch as well, and I have the wood rolling into the glass)
-Let those catch a minute then load up the spaces in between with whatever I can jam in there EW or NS
-Leave the door open until it all catches. Close the door. Let it catch and begin shutting it down in intervals. I'm burning locust so I'm finding it hard to shut it down all the way each load.
This has produced great results with mostly Locust. Overnights are 7.5 -8 hours from start to 200* stove top with good coal bed for immediate start up in the morning. I've also had 12 hours from start to 150* stove top (really putting out no useful heat) but raked up coals threw some kindling on and within a few minutes ignition and start up.
These tips from this thread have greatly improved my burn times. Thanks so much for all of your great input.
Here's what I'm having most success with long burns in my 1.7 CF firebox with what has been labeled on this site a less than desirable stove:
-Hot coal bed raked forward.
-Two big splits EW (side to side) one in the back and one in the middle
-smaller split that will catch and burn in front EW
-Let those catch. Then 3-4 NS on top of the burning EW. (with this I've used all EW but it doesn't seem to catch as well, and I have the wood rolling into the glass)
-Let those catch a minute then load up the spaces in between with whatever I can jam in there EW or NS
-Leave the door open until it all catches. Close the door. Let it catch and begin shutting it down in intervals. I'm burning locust so I'm finding it hard to shut it down all the way each load.
This has produced great results with mostly Locust. Overnights are 7.5 -8 hours from start to 200* stove top with good coal bed for immediate start up in the morning. I've also had 12 hours from start to 150* stove top (really putting out no useful heat) but raked up coals threw some kindling on and within a few minutes ignition and start up.
These tips from this thread have greatly improved my burn times. Thanks so much for all of your great input.
Ok two things my fellow small firebox burners:
1. I have found that for day time burning on cold days I get more heat from medium sized fires, and loading the firebox more frequently.
2. the results posted above were on milder days. My burn times are shorter on colder days.
Hope this is helpful. Happy burning!
1. I have found that for day time burning on cold days I get more heat from medium sized fires, and loading the firebox more frequently.
2. the results posted above were on milder days. My burn times are shorter on colder days.
Hope this is helpful. Happy burning!
Jclout
Member
My Quad 3100 has the start up air in the front bottom and the rear air in the back bottom, I think this would be similar to underfire air, never really knew what that rear air was for but burning down the coal bed with it sounds good and I think the front start up air would contribute the same in this case. I also have the brick bed
Huntindog1
Minister of Fire
Your stove has a automatic combustion control then it has a startup air control (rear air).
1. Start-Up Air Control
The Start-Up Air Control has two primary functions.The
first function is to activate the Automatic Combustion Control
system (ACC).This function is performed by sliding the control
all the way back until it stops at the “HI” indicator on the
label and then pulling forward to the front of the stove until
it stops. This activates the ACC system and opens the front
air channel and allows air to enter the front of the stove for
approximately 25 minutes.The front air channel gradually
shuts down until it is completely closed at the end of the 25
minutes.The fire is now controlled by the air supplied by the
Burn Rate Air Control.This function should be performed
each time you reload the stove.Figure 26.1.
The second function of the Start-Up Air Control is operation
of the rear air system.The rear air is used primarily during
a High Burn Rate.However, in some instances rear air is
desired during normal operation to help with combustion of
fuel towards the back of the firebox particularly when burning
hardwoods.The rear air is controlled independently from the
ACC system.Slide the Start-UpAir Control between the first
and third marker as indicated on the label to allow rear air to
enter the firebox.Figure 26.1.
Automatic Combustion Control (ACC)
Typically, when you build a fire, you open the air controls fully
and monitor the fire to prevent it from going into an overfire
situation and/or burning your wood up too quickly before you
shut down the air controls to the desired burn rate.With the
Automatic Combustion Control (ACC) system, you do not
have to continually monitor the fire.Once you set the ACC
system it will control the fire for you.Follow the instructions
below to learn how to operate your stove with ease.
1. Start-Up Air Control
The Start-Up Air Control has two primary functions.The
first function is to activate the Automatic Combustion Control
system (ACC).This function is performed by sliding the control
all the way back until it stops at the “HI” indicator on the
label and then pulling forward to the front of the stove until
it stops. This activates the ACC system and opens the front
air channel and allows air to enter the front of the stove for
approximately 25 minutes.The front air channel gradually
shuts down until it is completely closed at the end of the 25
minutes.The fire is now controlled by the air supplied by the
Burn Rate Air Control.This function should be performed
each time you reload the stove.Figure 26.1.
The second function of the Start-Up Air Control is operation
of the rear air system.The rear air is used primarily during
a High Burn Rate.However, in some instances rear air is
desired during normal operation to help with combustion of
fuel towards the back of the firebox particularly when burning
hardwoods.The rear air is controlled independently from the
ACC system.Slide the Start-UpAir Control between the first
and third marker as indicated on the label to allow rear air to
enter the firebox.Figure 26.1.
Automatic Combustion Control (ACC)
Typically, when you build a fire, you open the air controls fully
and monitor the fire to prevent it from going into an overfire
situation and/or burning your wood up too quickly before you
shut down the air controls to the desired burn rate.With the
Automatic Combustion Control (ACC) system, you do not
have to continually monitor the fire.Once you set the ACC
system it will control the fire for you.Follow the instructions
below to learn how to operate your stove with ease.
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