SORRY, the electronics is my weak area, I said all that backwards. The switch is operating properly for a normally closed circuit. It's a complete circuit and opens if it senses hi temp. Nothing wrong at the switch, nothing wrong at the board.Smokey, Thank you for your time and thoughtful reply. It is the 2 & 3 lights together, see cut and paste message from manual:
"The Diagnostic Lights flash as follows:
...
2. The High Limit switch. This sensor will
sense if the unit reaches temperatures that are
too high for normal operation. If this happens
the Auger will quit feeding and the #2 and #3
LED lights will flash simultaneously. (See
Figure 2 on Page 5 and point 4 on page 16)" from page 7 of the manual I downloaded for St. Croix Afton Bay Operation and Maintenance.
The hopper is full of fuel. I spent a good 2-3 hours cleaning the stoves hard to reach areas. cleared the vacuum tube. By passed the vacuum switch with a jumper (which should work if the switch was bad because it is a normally open switch) The voltage to the switch is correct, 5 V one side only at the control board pins.
Because the stove goes into safety shut down in 45 to 75 seconds, I don't think the proof of fire switch should have been polled yet.
I have rechecked the high limit switch and I think it is a problem between the switch and the control board. The high limit switch is a normally closed switch and at the control board only one pin to the switch should have voltage (line voltage). At the switch only one wire has voltage (120V) when they are not connected to the switch. But when connected the circuit completes. I hit the reset button on the switch but it won't reset to a closed position. So I have a bad high limit switch, one problem identified. What I don't understand is why I can't get the stove to light when I try to bypass the switch. Because it is a normally closed switch I thought if I disconnect it the board would sense it as a operational closed switch - didn't work, same error message. Then I tried to light to light it while holding the reset button during startup (which does close the switch, I kept a voltmeter on it) still didn't work.
I'm ordering a new switch, I wonder if there is another problem.
Pellet stove won't start (St. Croix-Afton Bay) Any help is Apreciated
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SORRY, the electronics is my weak area, I said all that backwards. The switch is operating properly for a normally closed circuit. It's a complete circuit and opens if it senses hi temp. Nothing wrong at the switch, nothing wrong at the board.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
What follows is the text from the Afton Bay Operations and Maintenance Manual at Eventemp's site.
Right hand column of page six and all of page seven.
Can you post an image of the control panel in the manual you are using.
2. The Vacuum switch. For the stove to
operate correctly the firebox needs to be
sealed. During the first 30 seconds after the
stove has been turned on the control board
will check to see if the switch senses negative
pressure in the stove. If there is no negative
pressure, the stove will go into “Safety
shutdown”. Once the stove completes the
safety shutdown the #2 LED will start
blinking.
Safety Features
1. ”High Limit” switch”, an overheat safety
switch will shut off the fuel feed if the stove
reaches a temperature above normal
operating temperature. This is a manual
reset High Limit switch. There is no
diagnostic light associated with this switch.
When this switch shuts the stove down the
control board will be in “Internal Alarm”.
Eventually the P.O.F. switch drops out and
the #3 LED will start blinking. The switch
will need to be manually reset. For this
reason it would be sensible to check this
switch first any time the #3 diagnostic LED
is blinking. When the High limit switch
causes a shutdown, the problem in the stove
must be diagnosed before the stove is put
back in service, (Defective room fan, dirty
room fan, defective high limit switch or
possibly a bad control board)
2.
Proof of Fire switch also called the
P.O.F. This senses the temperature rise in the
exhaust system. The switch is normally open
and closes the circuit at 110 degrees. The
stove will shut down if temperatures above
110 degrees F are not sensed during start up
or drop below 110 degrees during normal
operation.
3. Vacuum switch also called the Negative
pressure switch. When the stove is turned on
the exhaust fan will create a negative
pressure in the firebox. The control board
continually checks to see if negative pressure
Pageis present during operation of the stove. If the
exhaust venting system becomes clogged or
obstructed, the firebox door or ash pan door are
left open or the exhaust fan quits working the
control board will go into “Safety shutdown”.
There is a 90 second window to allow for
cleaning the glass and emptying the ashpan
before then stove shuts down. This is sufficient
for the daily maintenance.
The St. Croix pellets stove has been Safety
Tested by an accredited, independent
laboratory.
WARNING: These safety features are
designed to protect life and property.
Bypassing these features voids all warranties
and the safety listing of the stove.
Shutting The Stove Off (Refer Figure 2)
1. Press the ON/OFF switch (2) to turn off the
auger feed system; the fire will go out in a few
minutes.
2. The Room Air Fan and the Combustion
Exhaust Fan will continue to run until the P.O.F.
switch drops out. Meanwhile the Self-Cleaning
Grate continues to run at normal operating
speed. When the P.O.F. switch drops out the
Room Air Fan, Combustion Exhaust Fan and
the Self-Cleaning Grate Motor will turn off.
3. NEVER unplug the stove to shut it off.
Doing so may cause a significant amount of
smoke to enter the room.
7
Right hand column of page six and all of page seven.
Can you post an image of the control panel in the manual you are using.
2. The Vacuum switch. For the stove to
operate correctly the firebox needs to be
sealed. During the first 30 seconds after the
stove has been turned on the control board
will check to see if the switch senses negative
pressure in the stove. If there is no negative
pressure, the stove will go into “Safety
shutdown”. Once the stove completes the
safety shutdown the #2 LED will start
blinking.
Safety Features
1. ”High Limit” switch”, an overheat safety
switch will shut off the fuel feed if the stove
reaches a temperature above normal
operating temperature. This is a manual
reset High Limit switch. There is no
diagnostic light associated with this switch.
When this switch shuts the stove down the
control board will be in “Internal Alarm”.
Eventually the P.O.F. switch drops out and
the #3 LED will start blinking. The switch
will need to be manually reset. For this
reason it would be sensible to check this
switch first any time the #3 diagnostic LED
is blinking. When the High limit switch
causes a shutdown, the problem in the stove
must be diagnosed before the stove is put
back in service, (Defective room fan, dirty
room fan, defective high limit switch or
possibly a bad control board)
2.
Proof of Fire switch also called the
P.O.F. This senses the temperature rise in the
exhaust system. The switch is normally open
and closes the circuit at 110 degrees. The
stove will shut down if temperatures above
110 degrees F are not sensed during start up
or drop below 110 degrees during normal
operation.
3. Vacuum switch also called the Negative
pressure switch. When the stove is turned on
the exhaust fan will create a negative
pressure in the firebox. The control board
continually checks to see if negative pressure
Pageis present during operation of the stove. If the
exhaust venting system becomes clogged or
obstructed, the firebox door or ash pan door are
left open or the exhaust fan quits working the
control board will go into “Safety shutdown”.
There is a 90 second window to allow for
cleaning the glass and emptying the ashpan
before then stove shuts down. This is sufficient
for the daily maintenance.
The St. Croix pellets stove has been Safety
Tested by an accredited, independent
laboratory.
WARNING: These safety features are
designed to protect life and property.
Bypassing these features voids all warranties
and the safety listing of the stove.
Shutting The Stove Off (Refer Figure 2)
1. Press the ON/OFF switch (2) to turn off the
auger feed system; the fire will go out in a few
minutes.
2. The Room Air Fan and the Combustion
Exhaust Fan will continue to run until the P.O.F.
switch drops out. Meanwhile the Self-Cleaning
Grate continues to run at normal operating
speed. When the P.O.F. switch drops out the
Room Air Fan, Combustion Exhaust Fan and
the Self-Cleaning Grate Motor will turn off.
3. NEVER unplug the stove to shut it off.
Doing so may cause a significant amount of
smoke to enter the room.
7
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Now I would start looking at the combustion blower overloading (it is draging) the control board or a fubar controller.
Line voltage is switched through the high limit switch it is sort of a dead man switch for the stove. Never reset that switch with the stove plugged in, if the auger turns at all it can not be the high limit.
Line voltage is switched through the high limit switch it is sort of a dead man switch for the stove. Never reset that switch with the stove plugged in, if the auger turns at all it can not be the high limit.
I held the voltmeter on it during startup. The switch closed and did not open again until after it shutdown.
I couldn't paste the image I'll try to post one for you. It's not the current board. My stove was manufactured in 2005. It has the 5 LED lights for heat level on the left, and on the right it has feed trim, draft trim, auger, and ON/OFF with smart stat/t-stat/manual toggle at the top. I know it's not available anymore, they have a replacement part #.
Yeah, its not the same manually, similar but not the same one. The one I have is older.
Its all back with all switches connected. I tried a couple of starts with the voltmeter on the switches. No changes from the originally explained shutdown. The vacuum switch opened on startup and didn't close again until after shutdown. The high limit switch never opened, remained closed the whole time. It just shuts down after about 60 seconds and blinks the error message.
vacuum test is passed according to voltage at the switch. Both fans come on at startup
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Ah the vacuum switch opened on start up it should close. Is your vacuum switch by any chance double ported or does it have more than two terminals?
Before startup the switch is closed, when I push startup it opens, after shutdown it closes. The electrical diagram says normally open, I figure that means open when it senses vacuum?
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
I thought by using a jumper in place of the switch I could bypass it for diagnosis, but I just checked the voltage at the control board while bypassing the switch and the circuit wont close with like that. So it may just be a bad vacuum switch. I'm going to replace that and hope for the best. Thanks for your assistance.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Don't know some vacuum switches can be setup to be N/O or N/C. That is why I asked if your switch hd two ports or more than two terminals. Those can be installed wrong and only need to switch ports or the terminal the controller is connected to.
The switch could be just fine just installed incorrectly.
The switch could be just fine just installed incorrectly.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
I had thought of that, so I've always tested it twice with the wires attached both ways. I had just assumed that I could jump the switch, but since the circuit wont close with the jumper attached, but will with the switch attached there must be some safety mechanism built in to prevent operating without the switch
heat seeker
Minister of Fire
Agree - the vacuum switch should close to run the stove. If it doesn't close on startup, the stove shuts down, the auger never turns, and the #2 light blinks.
The POF switch can be jumped with the stove off (but plugged in) , and the blowers (both) should run - that's how I clean my stove without dust getting into the house.
The overtemp switch is normally closed, so jumping it should bypass it and allow the stove to run. If it's tripped, defective, or has bad wiring, the #2 & #3 lights blink.
The manual mentions checking the connectors at the control board to make sure they are fully seated, and that the pins are making contact. If they mention it in the manual, it must have been a problem.
If you've jumped the overtemp switch, and the stove still shows #2 and #3 lights blinking, you have bad wiring, bad connections, or a bad control board, IMO.
Airflow problems will show up as a #2 light.
Not much more to it than that, these stoves are pretty simple. Just my 2¢.
The POF switch can be jumped with the stove off (but plugged in) , and the blowers (both) should run - that's how I clean my stove without dust getting into the house.
The overtemp switch is normally closed, so jumping it should bypass it and allow the stove to run. If it's tripped, defective, or has bad wiring, the #2 & #3 lights blink.
The manual mentions checking the connectors at the control board to make sure they are fully seated, and that the pins are making contact. If they mention it in the manual, it must have been a problem.
If you've jumped the overtemp switch, and the stove still shows #2 and #3 lights blinking, you have bad wiring, bad connections, or a bad control board, IMO.
Airflow problems will show up as a #2 light.
Not much more to it than that, these stoves are pretty simple. Just my 2¢.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
The jumper goes between those two terminals it hooks one to the other and that is a closed switch.
mnkywrnch
Minister of Fire
Have you tried a resistance check of the wires from the high limit switch to the control board?Im still leaning to the control board being bad,from all the tests you've performed so far.
mnkywrnch
Minister of Fire
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