vacuum switch on Santa Fe

Hello
You have css cold start syndrone. update your control box.

At what heat setting are you trying to start the stove in?

The older controllers start the stove's combustion blower for the rate it uses for the heat range you select this doesn't always reliably start the stove unless the stove is being fired in the high setting (this affects the vacuum being seen by the vacuum switch). The newer (clear case controllers start the stove in high combustion blower speed and then trottles it back to match the heat range setting).

Then there is the ole t/c end isn't against the ceramic t/c cover issue along with an incorrectly set feed gate for the pellets you have in the hopper.

While it could be vac switch they rarely fail, it could be a plugged barb at the stove end of the vacuum line or a cracked or pinched vacuum line.

Carl Ropp said:

Thanks for all the ideas, this one really has me stumped. It's only the initial feed that SOMETIMES fails, and I stress sometimes. Barb end on the stove is clean, new hose. Vac switch is open until it get vacuum, then closes, correct? Any idea how much vacuum the stove should be making?
Again,
Thanks for the help
forgot to add that I must have the updated control box because it does run fast at startup then slows down

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No idea what that switch requires to close but the problem might not be related so much to vacuum.

You need to adjust your feed gate for proper flame height on high and this is different for every pellet you decide to burn. This will help get the t/c that is properly placed to get up to temperature to continue feeding at start up (the t/c has to get to roughly 200for the stove to feed after delivering its first load of pellets during startup. If the fuel gate is closed too much it will not get enough fuel at start up to get the t/c to the continue feed temperature.

Quads are also noted for varying auger rotation direction this is the result of a bad start capacitor. This can foul up pellet feed royally.

Fines in the auger can also result in less fuel making it to the burn pot.

Carl Ropp said:

The fail on start up is no pellet feed, no auger run. It does not do this all the time. Sometimes hitting rest will get ti going, if not a manual feed will work.

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If by no feed you are talking none at all at first, quads feed, stop, wait for a go signal (200) and then resume feeding.

Vacuum switches can fail but it is infrequent. Replace it if you think that is the problem.

If a reset starts it, it could even be a controller problem.

Jumper the switch out, if it works consistent with it jumper out.Take a good look at the hose and blow air threw it.If all is fine there.I think vac switch may be your failure mech.

sante fe said:

Jumper the switch out, if it works consistent with it jumper out.Take a good look at the hose and blow air threw it.If all is fine there.I think vac switch may be your failure mech.

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Be sure to be blowing toward the stove end and not towards the vacuum switch end.

The rectangular shaped vacuum switches that Quad used had a problem with the glue that holds the switch to the casing failing. If you have blown out the tube back towards the auger drop, the stove and exhaust are clean and the the gasket on the door is fine, then I would replace the vacuum switch. When the glue fails the switch is actually loose in it's case and is probably out of adjustment as a result. Replacement vac switches for Quads are an entirely different switch. Google SRV7000-531 for the current replacement. You could also try gluing the switch again but have had mixed results with this. You'll know if it is loose when you check it.

Carl Ropp said:

Thanks for all the ideas, this one really has me stumped. It's only the initial feed that SOMETIMES fails, and I stress sometimes. Barb end on the stove is clean, new hose. Vac switch is open until it get vacuum, then closes, correct? Any idea how much vacuum the stove should be making?
Again,
Thanks for the help
forgot to add that I must have the updated control box because it does run fast at startup then slows down

Click to expand...

I would double check on the control box. They started putting the updated control boxes in at the end of 2005 and all of 2006 models and up. If your stove is a 2004 it really may not have it. Is the box clear plastic?

Don2222 said:

I would double check on the control box. They started putting the updated control boxes in at the end of 2005 and all of 2006 models and up. If your stove is a 2004 it really may not have it. Is the box clear plastic?

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Where is this info on the "old" control box and "new" box? I know one is clear and the other isn't, but the Santa Fe, Castille, and Classic Bay have always been a "Fire on High" on start up. This has never been spoke of the last 2 yrs, and now its brought up every other week? Who noted this info or where is the thread? Just wondering, becuase I know of an old Santa Fe that has the old Box and it steps up to High on start up. Then drops to desired setting?

Just wondering?

DexterDay said:

Where is this info on the "old" control box and "new" box? I know one is clear and the other isn't, but the Santa Fe, Castille, and Classic Bay have always been a "Fire on High" on start up. This has never been spoke of the last 2 yrs, and now its brought up every other week? Who noted this info or where is the thread? Just wondering, becuase I know of an old Santa Fe that has the old Box and it steps up to High on start up. Then drops to desired setting?

Just wondering?

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As far as I know, the change to clear was when Quad made 1 control box for several stoves and added the #'ed switch to select the stove model. Prior to that they made changes in programming to make the blower kick to high on start up and to adjust the start up feed timing.

I think some of the oldest boxes didn't kick to high fan initially but Quad changed that way back in the early 2000's.

pip3398 said:

As far as I know, the change to clear was when Quad made 1 control box for several stoves and added the #'ed switch to select the stove model. Prior to that they made changes in programming to make the blower kick to high on start up and to adjust the start up feed timing.

I think some of the oldest boxes didn't kick to high fan initially but Quad changed that way back in the early 2000's.

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Right. But this was Waaaaay back in the day. The Santa Fe, Castille, and Classic Bay were the 1st of them designed to fire on High at start up (because of the known problem).

The old 800, 1000, and 1100 had the old boxes that were a known problem. They were due for an update, so new stoves were brought into the line-up? No.

Starting this year we have this being tossed around, along with CSS. I just don't want this to be made concrete, if it in fact, is not. Just becuase one controller did this, doesn't mean they all do (bad controller).

Just want to make sure these are in fact, facts. Not a, because it happened to "Joe" it must be true.

Maybe this is fact. But having a Quad, I read and pay attention to any and all threads Quad/Heatilator related. I have also done a lot of searching hwre and read many (MANY) old threads. I just never heard/or read of this, until this year. Again, this is only related to the Santa Fe, Castille, and Classic Bay.

Carl also said that he can hear the motor change speeds on start up. (Step down after thermocouple is satisfied). So, my question to Carl, do you have the clear box?

pip3398 said:

As far as I know, the change to clear was when Quad made 1 control box for several stoves and added the #'ed switch to select the stove model. Prior to that they made changes in programming to make the blower kick to high on start up and to adjust the start up feed timing.

I think some of the oldest boxes didn't kick to high fan initially but Quad changed that way back in the early 2000's.

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Yes, my Quadrafire Classic Bay CB1200 FS made in 2000 did not start up with the exhaust fan on high.

vac switches in pellet stoves are usually quite sensative and usually they are of a very light "value" as for tripping pressure. one of the things to think about when chsing a vac switch related problem is air temp. the lighter air gets (as it heats up) the less actual pressure is held with it. so you can have a switch which holds while the stove is cold but drops when the stove heats up. usually this is a restriction such as the above poster described, switches do occasionally fail but its not a very common issue . most of the vac related stuff i run into has to do with a blocked stint (port) where the switch gets its pressure, cracked hoses at the hot end usually from operating the stove too long between cleanings odd hookups, high altitude and the like.

check your gaskets at the door and ashpan. Use the dollar bill test. If in question, change them.

Eric

Carl Ropp said:

Well guys, I do not have the clear box, but the combustion fan start on high the slows down to low after a little while. It almost seems to be a times thing(guess I could time it a couple times) because it will slow down before there is fire if it is slow to light. I suppose it could be getting enough heat from the igniter, don't know. Any how, I fixed the stove. It's always the last thing you look at, in my case I looked at everything! When I cleaned my stove pipe at the end of the summer, I put on a new cap. Never really looked at it, it was new and I just put it on. Yesterday I pulled it off and gave it a good look and realized that the design would restrict the flow. 15 minutes with tin snips I opened it up, put it back on, and now the stove feeds right away on start up, lights quickly and burns better! This shows how vacuum sensitive these stoves are. Thanks for all the help, and I hope this helps someone down the line. Never assume that you are getting good exhaust flow.
Carl

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Yeah. Its a time thing. The pellet feed is temp related (200° starts fuel feed again) but the High to Low (or whatever setting you have set), is about 4 min in (IIRC).

So your box is also grey and it steps down huh?? Interesting I thought they didn't do that? (pretty sure they all Start on High)

Still not getting a solid answer about the box that doesn't start on High?

(Don, is it possible you didn't hear the change in speed?)

DexterDay said:

Yeah. Its a time thing. The pellet feed is temp related (200° starts fuel feed again) but the High to Low (or whatever setting you have set), is about 4 min in (IIRC).

So your box is also grey and it steps down huh?? Interesting I thought they didn't do that? (pretty sure they all Start on High)

Still not getting a solid answer about the box that doesn't start on High?

(Don, is it possible you didn't hear the change in speed?)

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Not possible. I changed it from low to medium and I could hear the combustion blower increase in speed. Besides the stove started all the time on medium. It would not always start on low especially if the shed was very cold like below 40 Deg F.

Sounds like the OP is good to go, but I have one other observation I discovered early on with BOTH of my Quads. With no or very low pellet levels, on LOW feed rate there was not enough vacuum to pull the vacuum switch in. This is on new stoves so LOW is marginal if the hopper gets low. Just saying....

I'd like to re-up this thread.......I'm having a vacuum switch problem, too, with my 2008 Santa Fe and have tried the dollar bill trick, tried a new vacuum switch, etc. With vacuum switch jumped the stove runs normally. It has the clear control box and lights all act normal. I tried blowing (by mouth) thru the vacuum hose from the switch end and it's very difficult to blow air thru it. Then took a length of small multi-strand electrical wire and pushed it into the fitting at the stove end of the vacuum line. It went in a couple of inches and stopped solid. Tried twisting it back and forth with no joy. I didn't jab hard or use steel wire because I'm not sure of what's on the inner end inside the stove and don't want to break anything.

Is there a practical, safe-for-the-stove method to clear this out ?? I hope you don't tell me to dis-assemble the stove - I did all that in Oct. when I serviced the stove for the up-coming season........but if I have to, then it'll be done.

Thanks................Lar.

biglar said:

I'd like to re-up this thread.......I'm having a vacuum switch problem, too, with my 2008 Santa Fe and have tried the dollar bill trick, tried a new vacuum switch, etc. With vacuum switch jumped the stove runs normally. It has the clear control box and lights all act normal. I tried blowing (by mouth) thru the vacuum hose from the switch end and it's very difficult to blow air thru it. Then took a length of small multi-strand electrical wire and pushed it into the fitting at the stove end of the vacuum line. It went in a couple of inches and stopped solid. Tried twisting it back and forth with no joy. I didn't jab hard or use steel wire because I'm not sure of what's on the inner end inside the stove and don't want to break anything.

Is there a practical, safe-for-the-stove method to clear this out ?? I hope you don't tell me to dis-assemble the stove - I did all that in Oct. when I serviced the stove for the up-coming season........but if I have to, then it'll be done.

Thanks................Lar.

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Remove the hose from the vac switch and use a can of compressed air (Duster) and blow towards stove (not towards vac switch) or use an air compressor?

If that does not clear it, then remove the hose from the nipple on the Auger chute and use a toothpick or small wire to break up the fines that have accumulated and plugged it up.

The fines get plugged up in the nipple and prevent the vac switch from getting satisfied.

Clear the.blockage and all should be well.

Don2222 said:

Hello
You have css cold start syndrone. update your control box.

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dont listen to him. Your micro switch is sticking. See it a lot with Contours and Sante Fe's, you need a 0.10 WC switch wired NO. Easy enough. $22

You need a magnehelic gauge or manometer to set it...or insert the black spring and rotate the screw 4 times clockwise to get in there abouts

http://www.amazon.com/Supco-univers...=8-1&keywords=supco+universal+pressure+switch