Cracked stoves, cracked blocks, and cracked operators

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Lorin at Woodstock told me to burn between 400 and 600. Said regular burning over than is hard on the cast iron.

That's interesting and seemingly different than what has been stated for the Fireview, which, obviously has a completely different type of firebox. I wonder what the cast iron temps are at when the Progress has a 600 degree surface temp?
 
That's interesting and seemingly different than what has been stated for the Fireview, which, obviously has a completely different type of firebox. I wonder what the cast iron temps are at when the Progress has a 600 degree surface temp?

I suspect she was referring to all their stoves, but can ask. I know Dennis burns a bit hotter than that. The one time i previously posted this, Dennis indicated an interest and said he would have to ask Woodstock about it. Don't know if he has had the chance or time to do so yet, but I am sure will chime in if he has. Would actually be interested to know whether the recommendation to me was reiterated.
 
There are tons of variables but a good set of base numbers from the manufacturer makes the most sense since they probably know the tolerences of their metal supply pretty well. However stoves made of good heavy boiler plate steel(Fisher) can handle extreme temps for a longer amount of time than stoves made of cheaper plate. An example: I have just become a convert on thermometers to regulate temps since I joined here last winter, I convinced a friends father to try one, he told me that he thinks hes been keeping Grandma Bear cruising at 700 plus (assuming the mag thermom. is accurate) in the winter for over 20 years now with no problems, cracks or anything. He replaces his first section of single wall every 2-3 years when it gets "translucent" while burning as the crazy old s.o.b says
 
Going with the car engine analogy; what about the old addage of "taking the big-block town car out on the highway to blow the carbon out of it" once in awhile?

I thought we called that "cleaning the glass" no? ;)
 
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I believe Woodstock has that 700 stove top overfire because they are thinking internal temps are double the external so a 1400 internal temp will eventually be bad news for the internal cast iron parts.

I'd like to see more stoves install t-stats like Blaze King that I think helps prevent overfiring. Maybe they can't because it would shut down secondary combustion in some stoves?
 
I suspect she was referring to all their stoves, but can ask. I know Dennis burns a bit hotter than that. The one time i previously posted this, Dennis indicated an interest and said he would have to ask Woodstock about it. Don't know if he has had the chance or time to do so yet, but I am sure will chime in if he has. Would actually be interested to know whether the recommendation to me was reiterated.

That's funny, because in regards to the PH, Lorin said that running in the 550 to 650 range was fine. She also wouldn't even worry about the occasional foray into the 700 range. She thought that because the cast iron parts on the PH were not as delicate as their smaller stoves they would be able to withstand more heat as a result.
 
That's funny, because in regards to the PH, Lorin said that running in the 550 to 650 range was fine. She also wouldn't even worry about the occasional foray into the 700 range. She thought that because the cast iron parts on the PH were not as delicate as their smaller stoves they would be able to withstand more heat as a result.

Hi! Greetings. :)

HA! Interesting. So I guess I have an e-mail exchange in order some day soon. The difference here is not great...400 to 600 recommended for regular burning range is probably a very safe recommendation to keep one away from consistently burning at the very upper end of a safe temperature, and thus risking regularly hitting 700 and higher. Actually staying anywhere from 250 to slightly north of 650 is probably pretty safe, perhaps with 400 to 600 being ideal. In the right conditions, the stovetop temperaure can go up a bit quite quickly. Woodstock, as we know, is very conservative about things. And I would definitely agree that they would not think occasionally hitting 700 is worrisome. However, regularly burning at that temperature I am fairly certain, based on my conversation with Lorin, they would strongly discourage.

I for one am perfectly willing to aim for upper limit 600, feeling comfortable with knowing I can burn there consistently and never worry about my stove, and knowing I have a good cushion in which to cool the stove down if it starts to climb higher..... :rolleyes:
 
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Lmao! The analogy is great and the concept, however it TO ME isnt right. The mere fact that pe has burned a cracked stove 24/7 and not caused anymore damage shows us that the stove is built like a tank! However it also shows it was a design flaw. When then stove reaches whatever temp it cracks in that area. This is proven simply by pe changing the design. As far as operator error, many of the stoves we know about are members here. I cannot prove it but I would like to think people here probably burn with more caution and knowledge of their stoves than most who dont belong to some type of "stove family" :)
It is a known fact pe says temps of ~900 are ok. Some might not agree with that but if they burned a damaged unit 24/7 i guess we have to ask how? Was the air wide open? All the way down?
I have a cracked stove, that is now cracked again. I had 2 of the temp thingys on the front of the stove. last winter I noticed one was way off. Long story short - put them in the oven one was off by over 200 degrees... guess which one? Point is I havent overfired my stove according to what we say here. I have rolling flames on the top while coals glow. My stove heats well.
I guess the real question is ....... If a new car with a spedometer of 130 mph, goes past the POSTED speed limit does that mean the 3 year 36 is voided? LOL
Ok, back to the point. PE doesnt have any specifics about overfire in the manual. Different setups mean different results for stoves- they should have something in there.
My setup has everything to work against a overfire, not that it cant happen, but I dont have one of those long chimneys that can pull facial hair! Could it be the ebt not working? Who knows...
I do love my stove, and have learned so much from this site. Because of this site I bought a summit, so I didnt go burning it "green" (everyone laugh) I take pride in my stove and no one is allowed to handle it but me. To say its operator error is unfair, especially if the design is now changed. If its only 6 stoves then why not replace it since they sells thousands every year?
Again, I love my stove! I am just a little upset that my cracks are back. I bought a stove to heat a large area and this was what was highly recommended.
Could it be that west coast guys dont burn hardwood like we do? Meaning we can burn same temps but mine would last longer do to wood density?
One non summit owner only puts wood in to the top of the bricks, Pe says its okay to fill it to the baffle.. could it have to much fuel?
After my thermostat mishap I bought an IR ... my stove has never been over 730... first thing that came to mind? Those times I waited for my stove to cool down- I was fine my stove was never at 900+
Even taking the top plate off and using a IR stove is well within what people here suggest..... So why do I keep getting a flat tire on my car?
 
I agree that if you need to run your stove at more than 50% output on a regular basis then you undersized the appliance. I also believe that each manuafacturer should specify the overfire temp.
 
And therein lies the problem. Manufacturers need to plan on the general public not knowing better, and become more specific IMO.

pen

Agreed. Contacted Regency about the maximum spec'd stove top temperature and they replied with "If you find the top plate, pipe glowing red then its over – fired."

So I just use the Condar thermometer range as a guide instead (400 - 650), hopefully it's not hurting anything
 
Just for arguments sake - PE has stated that 700F is not an overfired stove, and yet some stoves are cracking (mine being one of them) while being run at these temps (give or take). So lets use the car analogy - if your tach red lines a 5000, and you regularily idle your engine at 4000, and the block cracks - is it due to poor operating habits, even though it was below what the manufacturer specified as incorrect operation? I would say no.

Having said that - I try to keep the PE below 700. 900 is out of the question, even 800 for that matter. After speaking with PE about the matter, I'm quite satisfied witht their answer - the cracks are of little worry. I may weld it in the spring, but then again, I may not. They don't seem to have any affect the stoves operation. At the end of the day, it is still what I would consider a good stove, and I'd even consider another when the time comes.
 
Hi! Greetings. :)

HA! Interesting. So I guess I have an e-mail exchange in order some day soon. The difference here is not great...400 to 600 recommended for regular burning range is probably a very safe recommendation to keep one away from consistently burning at the very upper end of a safe temperature, and thus risking regularly hitting 700 and higher. Actually staying anywhere from 250 to slightly north of 650 is probably pretty safe, perhaps with 400 to 600 being ideal. In the right conditions, the stovetop temperaure can go up a bit quite quickly. Woodstock, as we know, is very conservative about things. And I would definitely agree that they would not think occasionally hitting 700 is worrisome. However, regularly burning at that temperature I am fairly certain, based on my conversation with Lorin, they would strongly discourage.

I for one am perfectly willing to aim for upper limit 600, feeling comfortable with knowing I can burn there consistently and never worry about my stove, and knowing I have a good cushion in which to cool the stove down if it starts to climb higher..... :rolleyes:

I, too, aim for 600 as the upper limit. On the few occasions I have strayed above that point (640 or so), I have done so unintentionally and have sweated bullets until she started to cool down. :eek:
 
Based on the description, it doesn't sound like you are abusing your stove. If you are "idling" the engine at 4000 rpm I would definitely expect premature wear in engine components. Occasional forays up to that speed however are fine.

If I'm burning good hardwood like locust or madrona the stove top will head up to 700F, even on a cold start (no hot coal bed). It's actually hard for it not to go to that temp. This is with the air completely shut down on a ~20ft chimney. That seems like where it was designed to cruise. With softwood it's more like 650F. I have never considered this risky for the stove because it's far from the redline (glowing stove) temp of 900F. Our Jotul 602 sees 700F pretty frequently and still looks and runs great after 28 years. There are no cracks and the enamel is still surprisingly nice.

Neither stove runs at 700F for hours, but they definitely can peak up in that range. If I was sweating bullets about that I would be getting a different stove.
 
Maybe they would, if the "problem" was more prevalent. As it happens, it seems the great majority of us have the common sense not to beat our stoves to death. For example, PE sells tens of thousands of stoves every year, and the number of cracked stoves reported in any given year has never been more than six. Nonetheless, the folks at PE, whom I've come to know as fundamentally good people, figured out a way to make their stoves even more bulletproof, a design change that took 5 years to implement. At this writing, not a single one of the new-design models has cracked, even in the hands of a true abuser.

As soon as my stove gets to around 400 degrees, I slide the air lever all the way to low as far as it can go. Have always done that since having issues controlling the damn thing. Did experiment at different temps, with the same results whether cutting back at 400 or 550 etc. It shoots up to 750ish for a bit, then finally settles down. I cannot control the thing any more than putting 3 splits in it and lowering the air leaver sooner. Which at lower temps, causes the wood to smolder. And I see no sense in putting 3 splits in a 3cf fire box and expecting that is all the stove can handle for a heat load, without it going thermonuclear.

I put my money on the new design change came after 2006-2008 era of inserts. That is wonderful news, if you purchased after this great development of engineering. But what about use owners that have struggles and dealt with the pre-improvement inserts? We get a weld job which cracks again, then the cold shoulder. Why would PE not offer us a new improved version to show they have heard our plight with the "bad" year models. We have been the loyal owners, gave them a chance to make it right, yet we get nothing, and new owner get the benefits of our bitching & suffering that most likely brought about this change.

I have been the biggest advocate of PE stoves, their warranty, and the loyalty I bled, is now shedding into "same warranty as everyone else" tailgate warranty.
I have never counted the cracking issues and years, but seems there is much more than six here alone, and many in the 2006-2008 era. If it is such a minor amount, then replacing the stoves should be even less of an issue. It is one thing to just run the hell out of the thing and disregard who it is run and how hot it is run. But I bet the majority of the issues with owners on this site alone, are stoves that we care so much for, we baby at times, and I personally loved my insert so much, I watched the temps like a mother worried about her newborn, yet have virtually no control over, if I put anything over 3 splits in the damn thing.

"even though every instance of said cracking they have investigated has been totally due to operator abuse"
Ok, so now "Every" instance is totally due to abuse? But only in the stoves prior to 2008? Tom, I have always thought the most highly of you. But I disagree with this statement, and take it as a personal attack on myself and any other members that have this stove and the issues at hand.

Bottom line....certain years had this issue. I told of the quality control card that was obviously quick checked down the line by the same operator.
And they did not even give insight that the door would need adjusting, which was my very first problem.
I suppose the EBT flapper that was dislodged and not even in correct position and in the pivots points on my stove was my fault and "operator abuse" also?
That didn't lead to any issues did it?
That alone causing who knows what wide open until I found it should have warranted a new stove right then & there.
I don't look to push the hell out of my insert, but I sure as hell not going to not use it with a 3 split load and not use the space that it was built with.

I am fkin disgusted at this point, and tired of excuses!
Yeah the list of all us members with the very same issues is all "operator abuse", BULLSHIT!
 
I have to agree with Hog and Ice on this. To assume that all the cracks that have been reported are due to "cracked operators" is a little insulting and using quite the broad brush to glance over an issue with a stove that has been reported by several users here.

It would be like saying that all the problems with VC stoves are due to bad operators. Maybe in some of the cases this is accurate. But to say all the cracked fireboxes are due to the stoves being "systematically overfired" seems to be the wrong conclusion to make and reads to me like someone that is a little too sensitive to the topic, which has been known to happen when it comes to stove owners and dealers (this isn't a dig, but, it does happen, and there are some posters with a strong loyalty to a certain brand. And when negativity of that brand is mentioned, some people react poorly).

What I have seen is that there have been many reported cracks that have taken place and all the cracks have taken place with the same model that were made within the same time span. All of the reports have been from a wide range of owners. If these cracks were from different models throughout the PE line from a wider range of production years than, yes, we could agree that operator error may be at fault and that a PE stove requires the stove to be burned in a certain way. But, that isn't the case. It is the same model within the same production span time and again.

If I had a cracked stove, and I knew I operated the stove within the specifications of PE's guidelines, and then I was told the issue was due to "cracked operators", I'd be a little annyoed, too.
 
Hogz, I apologize if you were offended by the title of this thread; was going for clever, not insulting. There is some truth there, however: I've seen my share of heat-ravaged stoves built by various manufacturers of various materials during my 33 years in the hearth product business, and not a single one of the operators has ever admitted to having overfired the stove. Not one. Human nature, I suppose.

Your dealer should have checked the EBT the first time you complained to him about the series of raging, out-of-control fires that you experienced (and reported here) after your insert was installed. If he had, you probably wouldn't have had so many overfires of such frightening severity, and wouldn't be experiencing the results. I'm guessing your stove must have got jounced around pretty severely at some point during the delivery/install process to cause the problem in the first place, as I've been unable to cause the EBT to stick open no matter what force I applied, and have never heard of another such case.

At any rate, the cracks have proven to be functionally benign. Should there ever be any evidence that they might adversely affect the operation, lifespan or safety of your insert I have no doubt that PE will replace your firebox.
 
As soon as my stove gets to around 400 degrees, I slide the air lever all the way to low as far as it can go. Have always done that since having issues controlling the damn thing. Did experiment at different temps, with the same results whether cutting back at 400 or 550 etc. It shoots up to 750ish for a bit, then finally settles down. I cannot control the thing any more than putting 3 splits in it and lowering the air leaver sooner. Which at lower temps, causes the wood to smolder. And I see no sense in putting 3 splits in a 3cf fire box and expecting that is all the stove can handle for a heat load, without it going thermonuclear.

I put my money on the new design change came after 2006-2008 era of inserts. That is wonderful news, if you purchased after this great development of engineering. But what about use owners that have struggles and dealt with the pre-improvement inserts? We get a weld job which cracks again, then the cold shoulder. Why would PE not offer us a new improved version to show they have heard our plight with the "bad" year models. We have been the loyal owners, gave them a chance to make it right, yet we get nothing, and new owner get the benefits of our bitching & suffering that most likely brought about this change.

I have been the biggest advocate of PE stoves, their warranty, and the loyalty I bled, is now shedding into "same warranty as everyone else" tailgate warranty.
I have never counted the cracking issues and years, but seems there is much more than six here alone, and many in the 2006-2008 era. If it is such a minor amount, then replacing the stoves should be even less of an issue. It is one thing to just run the hell out of the thing and disregard who it is run and how hot it is run. But I bet the majority of the issues with owners on this site alone, are stoves that we care so much for, we baby at times, and I personally loved my insert so much, I watched the temps like a mother worried about her newborn, yet have virtually no control over, if I put anything over 3 splits in the damn thing.

"even though every instance of said cracking they have investigated has been totally due to operator abuse"
Ok, so now "Every" instance is totally due to abuse? But only in the stoves prior to 2008? Tom, I have always thought the most highly of you. But I disagree with this statement, and take it as a personal attack on myself and any other members that have this stove and the issues at hand.

Bottom line....certain years had this issue. I told of the quality control card that was obviously quick checked down the line by the same operator.
And they did not even give insight that the door would need adjusting, which was my very first problem.
I suppose the EBT flapper that was dislodged and not even in correct position and in the pivots points on my stove was my fault and "operator abuse" also?
That didn't lead to any issues did it?
That alone causing who knows what wide open until I found it should have warranted a new stove right then & there.
I don't look to push the hell out of my insert, but I sure as hell not going to not use it with a 3 split load and not use the space that it was built with.

I am fkin disgusted at this point, and tired of excuses!
Yeah the list of all us members with the very same issues is all "operator abuse", BULLSHIT!


I agree Hogz. I believe I have been as diligent as possible in the running of my insert too (the old Pacific and my replacement) and experience similar running temps. I disagree too with Tom's statement about PE investigations and operator abuse. We bought these inserts/stoves to use. If use equals abuse, that is not acceptable.

First of all, when I made my warranty claim, operator abuse was suggested by PE (over the phone, without any investigation). When my insert was removed to be rewelded, the dealership's employees stated that it did not look like the insert had been overfired. When the old insert was sent to be rewelded, the dealership's welder (before it was sent to the distributor's welder) stated that the welds looked "shoddy" and that rewelding is a waste of time, since the cracks will come back. Yet, the firebox was sent to the dealership's welder for repair. After the end of the burn season, the cracks did come back.

The PE rep I dealt with also mentioned that he was aware of cracked welds in stoves that saw a lot of use. The rep mentioned that these cracks will not affect the function of the stove. If this is so, they should put it in writing.

Tom's suggestion that is only operator abuse is ludicrous. Manufacturing and design errors can and do occur too. If you consider that the welding of the firebox is not done by human hands and the machine is out of calibration etc., the welds will not get enough penetration etc. You add the other factor of welded sharp angles and you have a recipe for failure.

When my cracked firebox was eventually replaced, it was taken away by the dealership. I am not aware if any investigation was conducted or if it was just scrapped. I would have preferred an investigation. I wish PE would have had the dealer or distributor etc. investigate and assess the set-up etc. If I am overfiring/conducting operator abuse to the stove, I would love to know about it. If my chimney is drafting too much for the insert, I would like to know about it. I would love PE to suggest how to operate my insert properly, to ensure this doesn't happen again. A full investigation would minimize warranty claims. Instead, I had to (like others on this forum) quibble about their warranty; and had to go through a reweld and then replacement (when the rewelds failed).

I am pretty sure too that there were 6 or more forum members (including you) that observed cracked welds and steel in their PEs. I consider this forum community to be diligent operators with a thirst for knowledge on how to operate their stoves properly. Chances are there are a lot of other cracked inserts/stoves out there that others are not aware of, since most people don't look at their stoves as closely as we do. Or there are PE owners who only are occasional burners and use their stoves very lightly.

Tom needs to understand that most (if not all) PE owners bought PEs because of the "iron-clad" quality, reputation and warranty. Like you Hogz, I was a pretty big PE fan too. I always suggested PE to other prospective stove/insert buyers. However, after actually going through the warranty claim process, my enthusiasm is muted. If PE does not stand behind their quality, reputation and warranty, wood burners will go elsewhere.
 
sisu, did you at some point state that the stove got hot, possibly frequently and that it was in the basement so that you had no idea of the temp it was running at for 4 yrs, but saw the side rails and flue collar glowing red at times? Maybe I'm imagining this, it's been awhile. I'll try to dig up the thread(s). Didn't you also burn out the baffle or is that someone else?

PS: I think they are investigating this very thoroughly. It's your stove they have been running, overfired 24/7, for over a year now. That has to be costly.
 
sisu, did you at some point state that the stove got hot, possibly frequently and that it was in the basement so that you had no idea of the temp it was running at times, but saw the flue collar glowing red? Maybe I'm imagining this, it's been awhile. I'll try to dig up the thread(s). Did you also burn out the baffle or is that someone else?

PS: I think they are investigating this very thoroughly. It's your stove they have been running, overfired 24/7, for over a year now. That has to be costly.

It is true I did not know of the operating temps, as I did not have any temperature gauges attached to it at the time. Since reading Hogz's posts, I have since put the flue thermometers above the door frame. The baffle did glow occasionally, when buring 24/7, but I was told by the dealer that this was nothing to worry about. The firebox and baffle rails were not warped, etc., so there was no other evidence of overfiring. Yes the stove is located in the basement.

Stoves, by their very nature, are supposed to get hot. However, how hot and how to control the stove from getting too hot has never been explained by PE via manual or verbally.

P.S. You must have some inside knowledge on my old firebox!
 
Just got an email from PE about the cracks on the face of my Summit.

"Per Pacific’s instruction based on the photos you’ve provided, they have approved up to a $200.00 credit allowance toward having the firebox welded. A good, hot weld should be a permanent fix to this issue under normal use." <>
 
[Tom needs to understand that most (if not all) PE owners bought PEs because of the "iron-clad" quality, reputation and warranty.

Sisu, I think YOU need to understand that most owners of PE stoves are enjoying their "iron clad" quality. PE doesn't publish their sales numbers, but from what I've been able to gather, I think it is safe to say that the reported incidence of cracked stoves is a tiny fraction of 1%.

Here's what I do know for sure:
1) All the swapped-out cracked stoves have shown unmistakable other signs of overfiring
2) The cracks have zero impact on efficiency, performance, safety or lifespan of the stove

As I understand it, your major complaint the whole time has been that your owner's manual doesn't go into enough detail about proper operation of your stove. We have owner's manuals on file for a couple hundred wood stove models dating back 30+ years, and I can tell you none of them does a better job. I've been working on a book on proper woodstove operation for several years now, and can tell you this is a daunting task. If and when I ever publish, the book will likely run some 400 pages: how big an owner's manual do you expect a manufacturer to provide?
 
As I understand it, your major complaint the whole time has been that your owner's manual doesn't go into enough detail about proper operation of your stove. We have owner's manuals on file for a couple hundred wood stove models dating back 30+ years, and I can tell you none of them does a better job. I've been working on a book on that subject for several years now, and can tell you this is a daunting task. If and when I ever publish, the book will likely run some 400 pages: how big an owner's manual do you expect a manufacturer to provide?

If reporting of cracks is 1 percent, then the reported incidents is more than 6 per year, as you stated in a previous post. Unless they sell only 600 stoves/inserts per year.

I actually don't have any real problems with the manual. I realize that the manual cannot cover all situations.

What I do/did have problems with is the PE warranty claim process and any follow-up/customer service. First of all, my 5 year comprehensive warranty stated that any defective part is to be replaced. No where did the 5 year warranty, at the time of purchase, state that it was up to the manufacturer's discretion whether parts would be replaced or repaired.

Secondly, if I was at fault (ie. operator abuse), I would have liked PE or their affiliates to confirm this; and then advise me how to operate my stove properly. In my defence, my dealership stated that my stove operation was normal, when I originally asked them operating questions (eg. should my baffle sometimes glow). The only time overfiring was suggested was with PE over the phone, during the beginning of the warranty process. At the time PE had not seen insert, other than the photos of the cracked welds. The dealership employee who actually saw my insert in person stated that In his opinion it did not look like it had been overfired. The original welder stated that original firebox welds "looked shoddy" and didn't have enough penetration. He also stated that repairs would be futile, which they turned out to be.

In the end, I went through a two year process, where my firebox was finally replaced. Had the original warranty been followed, the firebox would have been replaced during the first warranty claim. Part of my displeasure involves having to go through the whole "song and dance" to get satisfaction.

So all in all, was it operator abuse? I don't know because PE has not told me I have, after the firebox was removed. Someone has my firebox now (either PE, dealership, distributor, or the scrap yard) and I was hoping it would be inspected. If operator abuse was established, it would be nice to know that it happened and how to avoid it again.
 
I took it upon myself to call several PE dealers. Six to be exact. I attempted to call Pacific Energy's technical support, but their number is "no longer in service."

Of the six, four dealers did not know what would qualify as an overburn and did not know if there was a temperature that should not be exceeded on the stove. Another said no higher than 700 on the insert and another said not to exceed 800.

Of the four that did not know the answer, two contacted PE technical support directly, I guess they had another number available to them, and they told me that technical support would have to look into it as they did not know the answer and that they would call me back.

To be clear, I asked what was the recommended burning temps for the PE Summit Insert and what is the the recommended temp to avoid going over when operating the stove specifically when it comes to "overburn."

Additionally, the information is not available on the manual available online.

As someone that tends to buy used stoves rather than new, I would say that I would avoid any stove that has cracks in the firebox. So, while the stove cracks "have zero impact on efficiency, performance, safety or lifespan of the stove", the owners will have a mighty tough time trying to sell the stoves on the used market.
 
I certainly appreciate this thread. I'm one of those newer PE insert owners, in fact it was due to Chimneysweepsonline.com that I found this site, and eventually bought the Alderlea T5. I, too, have been concerned about possible cracking, because, quite frankly, I never took or passed the Woodburners Drivers Test. ;lol
I cannot say if I have over fired my stove. I rarely burn 24/7 for more than a week at a time, mostly weekends and nights. That being said, there will come a time when I probably will, when I retire perhaps. I have tried to use the IR gun by pointing it into the top vent as steadily as I can and aiming the laser at what I assume is the vent pipe. I have never gotten any temperature higher than 300::F. That being said, an occasional expansion sound can be heard to report from the fireplace, which always gives me pause.
Any information you folks can give me to keep me from being a "cracked operator" is appreciated!!
 
I like the PE stoves and I don't think that they are special in that they don't want to specify what overfire is. This is so that they keep that ace in the hole. The stove manufacturers all like to be able to just void your warranty by saying you overfired the stove. It gives them the final say in whether or not the damage is covered by warranty and allows them to determine the outcome. That's the deal we signed up for when we accepted the terms of the warranty.

Rather than whine about the lack of warranty coverage, we must avoid stoves and brands with a known history of defects. This can ruin a company.VC ring a bell?
 
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