Coming froma catalytic stove to a seconday stove, how do you work this thing?

Pallet Pete said:

If you thunk to pieces of wood and it makes a solid thump it is most likely wet if it makes a hollow thump it is most likely dry. I purchased a moister meter and have actually just givin up on it and gone back to my ears and eyes it just works better for me.
If you buy a meter split the test peice and test the center for a little more accuracy.
Pete

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You're good at it, Pete, but you are much more experienced than a lot of us. I spent a good part of the summer splitting down and using my meter. I could start to get a feel for what's dry and not, but I was also very surprised sometimes at how high the readings were when the wood seemed to ring as if it were dry. It seems to matter about what species you're dealing with and how large the splits are, also. No doubt one gets better at reading the wood, but I'll continue to use my meter at least for a while, and I recommend their use. Of course, I'm kind of a gadget guy anyway

clemsonfor said:

I was thinking that my manual for my stove said 25%MC. But i cant remember?

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Usually, the number to aim for is 20%.

Sprinter said:

You're good at it, Pete, but you are much more experienced than a lot of us. I spent a good part of the summer splitting down and using my meter. I could start to get a feel for what's dry and not, but I was also very surprised sometimes at how high the readings were when the wood seemed to ring as if it were dry. It seems to matter about what species you're dealing with and how large the splits are, also. No doubt one gets better at reading the wood, but I'll continue to use my meter at least for a while, and I recommend their use. Of course, I'm kind of a gadget guy anyway

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I appolagize I wasn't meaning to say they are usless but now that I read my post again it kinda looks that way lol. They are actually very usefull ! Yes wood density has a lot to do with how it sounds and even how it looks when dry.

Pete

Pallet Pete said:

I appolagize I wasn't meaning to say they are usless but now that I read my post again it kinda looks that way lol. They are actually very usefull ! Yes wood density has a lot to do with how it sounds and even how it looks when dry.

Pete

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No problem, Pete. No doubt it is possible to get along without one after a while. My problem was that I was dealing with mixed bag of mixed species, some partly dried, part very green and everything in between and it was all mixed up. I imagine that if you start out with a batch of wood of the same species, cut at the same time and split about the same, you could probably get away with measuring a few and get a good idea of what's going on with all of it pretty quickly. Mine was all over the place.

I loked at some liturature on thier page and they referred to Woodlanddirect and there was 20% listed there. Maybe i made that up? I have burned plenty of over 25%. And will have to till at least next year when i will be farther ahead on my wood, but having 80% oak it may be longer than that till i can get to 25%.

Me cutting dead trees has a lot to do with getting oak down to a lower MC than 3 years though, that and the high heat here in the south. But it does look to be less than 20% on a fresh dead tree or a big one down will take close to 3 years.

rdust said:

Nah loading on the coal bed it's the same as any other stove. Load, burn for a while, close air half way, another tweak or two and you're good to go. I made it a novel since the person I sold it to never operated a stove before.

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Glad you clarified that rdust! Don't want to scare folks away from Lopi's. They're good stoves and were high on my short list (a 1750).

rdust said:

Nah loading on the coal bed it's the same as any other stove. Load, burn for a while, close air half way, another tweak or two and you're good to go. I made it a novel since the person I sold it to never operated a stove before.

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I was gonna say...if I had to go through that with my Endeavor I'd be shopping for a new stove too.

I use 4 medium/large splits or replace two with a couple energy logs and I have a hot fire with secondaries within the hour on a cold stove. My flue temps are way above what most report here and are between 500-700 degrees. I must have a strong draft. I still get up to a 12 hour burns using the energy logs as a supplement.

Forgot.... 1/4 Super Cedar

rdust,
Just wondering...have you spoke to the people who bought your Endeavor? Have they ever had a fire in it yet? They may be sitting there reading over your instructions and am afraid to build one.
Sorry, I just throw more wood in it when the house gets cold. My wife can understand this and does a great job at it. Now if I can just get her to appreciate having to go out, cut it up, bring it home, split it, and then stack it, she would probably think twice before trying to keep the house nearly 80in the winter.

This is my first time running two stoves of different types at the same time. And i reloaded the jotul from a fire the wife built earlier i must say i think the cat stove is easier. For this, getting the stove to cruise mode takes less time. You get the stove to temp same as a tube stove, close the bypass set air in same step and i may only make one adjustment the while burn. The tube stove it's get it up to temp, then fiddle with the air control a few times to get it in cruise mode.

Now i also notice more smoke from my jotul, but it's in a clay lined basement flue vs, the lined cat stove flue. What I'm trying to get at is that there I'd just more fiddling with the tube stove then the cat.

However, they both have their pluses. Jotul has two doors, larger firebox and burn times are surprising. The fireview, a dream to run and holds heat simply forever. To be honest the fireview seems to be less picky about the wood. I love the range of temps i can get out off it.

Wish you luck. Once you get the hang of it you'll be able to 'set and forget' like your dutchwest.

boatboy63 said:

rdust,
Just wondering...have you spoke to the people who bought your Endeavor? Have they ever had a fire in it yet? They may be sitting there reading over your instructions and am afraid to build one. .

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No idea, he was going from a smoke dragon to an EPA stove so I wanted them to know you don't run them the same way if you want it to burn clean.

I don't think the directions are bad, they may be wordy but easy to follow. Those directions were a hybrid of all the things I read on this site before burning in the stove. Everyone complains the manuals don't go into enough detail on building a fire and running a stove so I tried to give them enough in hopes of shortening the learning curve.

... For this, getting the stove to cruise mode takes less time.

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ls this because the catalytic begins to operate at a lower temp than tubes do? I've heard that they will be functional at something like 500 F; much lower than it takes for tubes to start secondary burning. If I turn my intake down too much, too soon, it does cause problems. I can see that the cat would have a pretty good advantage there, and may even account for better efficiency if you can turn the air down sooner and stay clean. Never had a cat to compare with, though. Just "reburning" what I've heard...

begreen said:

Yes, easy enough to do at 3am while half awake. It takes more effort to type it than to just do it. Though with our stove I close it off almost all the way once it's going good.

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Why are you reloading at 3 a.m? I don't think I've ever woke up to reload the stove . . . I need my beauty sleep . . . after I load 'er up at 9:30 or so at night I don't reload until 4:30-5:30 a.m.

Sprinter said:

ls this because the catalytic begins to operate at a lower temp than tubes do? I've heard that they will be functional at something like 500 F; much lower than it takes for tubes to start secondary burning. If I turn my intake down too much, too soon, it does cause problems. I can see that the cat would have a pretty good advantage there, and may even account for better efficiency if you can turn the air down sooner and stay clean. Never had a cat to compare with, though. Just "reburning" what I've heard...

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This was from info in document about Hybrid Lopi Cape Cod

" a typical non-cat emission curve starts dirty at lowburn, cleans up in mid-burn and emissions increase in the highburn rate creating a U-shaped emission curb. A typical catalytic emissions curb starts lower and increases as the burn rate gets higher. "

Sprinter said:

ls this because the catalytic begins to operate at a lower temp than tubes do? I've heard that they will be functional at something like 500 F; much lower than it takes for tubes to start secondary burning. If I turn my intake down too much, too soon, it does cause problems. I can see that the cat would have a pretty good advantage there, and may even account for better efficiency if you can turn the air down sooner and stay clean. Never had a cat to compare with, though. Just "reburning" what I've heard...

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Technically speaking, the temps to burn smoke are in the 1000, 1100 f range, tube stove. A cat allows the smoke to be burned up at lower temperatures. I believe around 550 f or so. This can be attributed to the chemical reaction taking place.

So I've heard/read.

Treacherous said:

I was gonna say...if I had to go through that with my Endeavor I'd be shopping for a new stove too.

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You do go through those same steps when you load your stove. Just sayin'

Cliff note version for loading with a coal bed, I took out the words. If you are skipping one of these steps please let me know which one.

Open the bypass
Open the primary air
Open Door
Rake the coals to the front
Place wood in stove
Close the door
Close the bypass
When the stove hits about 400* close primary air half way
Burn for 10 minutes and adjust air again
After 10 more minutes fine tune air to final setting

I agree. It is the same on reloads.

I just start my initial "cold stove" fires differently.

rdust said:

You do go through those same steps when you load your stove. Just sayin'

Cliff note version for loading with a coal bed, I took out the words. If you are skipping one of these steps please let me know which one.

Open the bypass
Open the primary air
Open Door
Rake the coals to the front
Place wood in stove
Close the door
Close the bypass
When the stove hits about 400* close primary air half way
Burn for 10 minutes and adjust air again
After 10 more minutes fine tune air to final setting

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rdust said:

No idea, he was going from a smoke dragon to an EPA stove so I wanted them to know you don't run them the same way if you want it to burn clean.

I don't think the directions are bad, they may be wordy but easy to follow. Those directions were a hybrid of all the things I read on this site before burning in the stove. Everyone complains the manuals don't go into enough detail on building a fire and running a stove so I tried to give them enough in hopes of shortening the learning curve.

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I can't say much. I went from an old Buck Stove insert to my Magnolia. I know some people may not think the best of the Magnolia, but it puts out 3 x the heat and burns about 1/2 the wood doing it. I am trying to have champagne on a beer budget. With today's economy, I am even having to go with a cheaper brand of beer. BTW, your directions were good. It just seemed like a lot to take in at first. I do like your condensed version better. It's amazing what you can learn on this forum.

clemsonfor said:

I loked at some liturature on thier page and they referred to Woodlanddirect and there was 20% listed there. Maybe i made that up? I have burned plenty of over 25%. And will have to till at least next year when i will be farther ahead on my wood, but having 80% oak it may be longer than that till i can get to 25%.

Me cutting dead trees has a lot to do with getting oak down to a lower MC than 3 years though, that and the high heat here in the south. But it does look to be less than 20% on a fresh dead tree or a big one down will take close to 3 years.

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Found this on an old post:

"For example, the meter says the wood is 25% MC. Add 100 to 25, then divide that number (125) by the original reading. 25/125 = 20% MC wet-basis. The high end of the EPA test range... perfect for you stove.
In another case, the meter says the wood is 19% MC. Add 100 to 19, then divide that number (119) by the original reading. 19/119 = 16% MC wet-basis. The low end of the EPA test range... perfect for your stove."

Basically states that the 20% value quoted is "wet-basis" which is equivalent to 25% dry-basis (what we measure with our moisture meters). So 25% is good to go! (at least that's how I'm looking at it with my 25% wood)

Is burnt03 thetraindork, or do they just see the same optrician?


burnt03__________________thetraindork_____________________

boatboy63 said:

I can't say much. I went from an old Buck Stove insert to my Magnolia. I know some people may not think the best of the Magnolia, but it puts out 3 x the heat and burns about 1/2 the wood doing it. I am trying to have champagne on a beer budget. With today's economy, I am even having to go with a cheaper brand of beer. BTW, your directions were good. It just seemed like a lot to take in at first. I do like your condensed version better. It's amazing what you can learn on this forum.

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Nothing wrong with the magnolia.

Joful said:

Is burnt03 thetraindork, or do they just see the same optrician?

burnt03__________________thetraindork_____________________

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Long lost brothers

Didn't realize someone else had Bubbles as an avatar, better change mine up!

Sprinter said:

No problem, Pete. No doubt it is possible to get along without one after a while. My problem was that I was dealing with mixed bag of mixed species, some partly dried, part very green and everything in between and it was all mixed up. I imagine that if you start out with a batch of wood of the same species, cut at the same time and split about the same, you could probably get away with measuring a few and get a good idea of what's going on with all of it pretty quickly. Mine was all over the place.

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I almost thought of starting a thread on this very topic at one point - another sanity check kind of thing for me. I have basically 2 main hardwoods that I burn - maple and birch (ok 3 if you count white vs yellow). I can pretty much tell now how well a chuck of wood is going to burn by the feel of it (knocking a couple pieces together), the ends (grey, checked), how much bark is falling off vs sticking to the wood, the weight in my hand, etc. I've kinda develped a knack for this, and I have a lot of confidence now - but I only have to deal with a couple species so there's not too much variable here.

Having said that, I've passed by the meters where I would've grabbed one if it happened to be on sale at that time - I'd be curious to know the actual MC mostly 'cause I've never used one and would be curious to see how my guesswork has been stacking up. So far no luck on the sale...