Getting a pellet stove- need wisdom

crowinghen · Oct 31, 2012

Hi All!
we recently purchased a beach cabin, a real fixer-upper. we had intended on putting in a wood-burning insert in the fireplace,but just found out that the chimney is in too bad of shape to use with a woodburning insert.
The fireplace shop guuy said that we could put in a pellet stove though, so this seems like a good option instead of spending alot of money on chimney repairs.
On one hand we are disappointed because we like wood heat, but on the other hand a pellet stove would be great if we ever rented the cabin out or had our daughters out there w/o us. ( pellet stove being easier to run)
we are near Seattle, on the puget sound. The house is about 1000 sq feet, no insulation at all ( NONE) and the only other heat is electric baseboard.
Would love to hear about recomendations as far as size/models and sources of inexpensiveellets, as well as any other things we should be aware of.
The fireplace guy just off the top of his head recomended a Regency insert, Greenfire I55, I think is themodel.
thanks so much!

stoaf88 · Oct 31, 2012

Ome thing i would recommend is to search craigslist for a stove.

There are a lot available for less than half retail.

if I were you I would look for something with at least 40,000 BTU's

You have a drafty house and bigger will be better.

As far as brands there are a bunch of good ones.

Harman, Breckwell, Quadrafire, Avalon, Lopi, just to name a few.

crowinghen · Oct 31, 2012

I meant to say that we're putting in a pellet burning insert...
I have started looking at craigslist... but don't know enough yet to determine which ones I want... do some accept a thermostat? that would be nice, as it would be our main heat while we're there.
thanks, Susie

stoaf88 · Oct 31, 2012

I would say that at least 50-75% of inserts made in the last 5-10 years can use a thermostat.

All Harman inserts can use one. There are a bunch of good brands to buy.

you really should not have to spend more than $800-$1000

tjnamtiw · Oct 31, 2012

Both of my Quad's accept thermostats and are inserts. For such a drafty house, I would go up to a Classic Bay with 47,000 btu's.
Since you are out there in God's Country with plenty of firewood, it really might behoove you to consider investing in redoing the chimney and getting a modern wood-burner. You might also consider a wood burning cook stove such as these > www.sopkainc.com I have one as a back-up for my back-ups.

They put out some good heat and you can have fun cooking/baking with them too.
Craigslist always has some good bargains if you know what you are looking at.

Hellfire · Oct 31, 2012

Not sure what condition your chimney is ? This is the ticket (4 inch m-flex style for an insert !!!

) x length-----http://chimneylinerpro.com/ ( They seem easy on the wallet $$$ ) If you decide to use ( burn) corn also make sure you purchase the one approved for corn. 316 is for all fuels !!!

304 is for wood/pellet !!!

Your choice! If not then sidewall chimney is another option. BTW The difference between non-thermostat & thermostat is not unlike a auto/truck heater control ,you either control it with fan/feed control (old school ) or like newer vehicles with a exact temp( digital) control. I prefer the old school myself ( came w/therm but i don`t want to use it + seems like the simpler things are the less headaches you`ll have----personal preference )

DO NOT USE !!!

! the 3 inch dia. for chimney liner over 15 feet long Use 4 inch dia. !!!

!

MCPO · Oct 31, 2012

I wouldn`t consider a pellet stove in a rental. You are asking for trouble.
They are just too fussy and complicated for most folks who aren`t familiar with their operation , not to mention none are the same with regards to controlling the burn.

crowinghen · Oct 31, 2012

thank you for the posts!
Rental as in overnight or the weekend., BTW, we thought it would be safer than a woodstove.
I didn't realize how persnickety they are! Which I don't mind doing some futzing .
So I may get an insert that is thermostat compatible, ad see how I like it w/o the therm-- I usually prefer the manual vs the automatic way too- less things that can go wrong.
keep up the advice! Going to go looking tomorrow just to compare looks and features-- to narrow it down to what I'm looking for, hopefully used, but don't want to have to spend money in repairs right out of the gate...

DneprDave · Oct 31, 2012

I bought two of the same model stove off of Craigslist. I was planning to put one in my house and one in a garage apartment that I rent out. I installed one in my house and after running it for a month, I decided against putting the other one in the rental. They aren't difficult to operate, but I wouldn't trust a renter to take care of it properly.

My spare pellet stove is going to heat my garage instead.

Dave

AbetterChimneynm · Oct 31, 2012

Depending on how bad the chimney is, if you install a wood insert with a six inch flex pipe you should be ok. I perfer a GOOD Pellet stove to a wood burning insert for a rental cause i have seen renters do some stupid stuff with wood burning stoves (burning with the door open letting coals hit floors etc)

MCPO · Oct 31, 2012

crowinghen said:
thank you for the posts!
Rental as in overnight or the weekend., BTW, we thought it would be safer than a woodstove.
I didn't realize how persnickety they are! Which I don't mind doing some futzing .
So I may get an insert that is thermostat compatible, ad see how I like it w/o the therm-- I usually prefer the manual vs the automatic way too- less things that can go wrong.
keep up the advice! Going to go looking tomorrow just to compare looks and features-- to narrow it down to what I'm looking for, hopefully used, but don't want to have to spend money in repairs right out of the gate...

Pellet stoves definitely aren`t rocket science to run but I can`t imagine a weekend renter is going to listen closely with great interest and follow the instructions on how to start / run a pellet stove or would you want to be going thru the operating and daily cleaning instructions for each renter . Pellet stoves are usually best operated by their experienced owner , who is someone who got to know it`s particular foibles thru experience .

I`d seriously consider rebuilding the chimney vs the cost of a pellet stove.
Not to mention the ambience of a real fire .I see nothing cozy or romantic in a pellet stove vs a wood fire. To me a rental cabin screams out for a fireplace or at least a wood stove. (just my opinions here)

stoaf88 · Oct 31, 2012

Master Chief PO said:
Pellet stoves definitely aren`t rocket science to run but I can`t imagine a weekend renter is going to listen closely with great interest and follow the instructions on how to start / run a pellet stove or would you want to be going thru the operating and daily cleaning instructions for each renter . Pellet stoves are usually best operated by their experienced owner , who is someone who got to know it`s particular foibles thru experience .

I`d seriously consider rebuilding the chimney vs the cost of a pellet stove.
Not to mention the ambience of a real fire .I see nothing cozy or romantic in a pellet stove vs a wood fire. To me a rental cabin screams out for a fireplace or at least a wood stove. (just my opinions here)

I think pellet stoves are very nice for atmosphere in the room.

Most have big windows and resemble a fireplace very much.

tjnamtiw · Oct 31, 2012

Hellfire said:
Not sure what condition your chimney is ? This is the ticket (4 inch m-flex style for an insert ) x length-----http://chimneylinerpro.com/ ( They seem easy on the wallet $$$ ) If you decide to use ( burn) corn also make sure you purchase the one approved for corn. 316 is for all fuels 304 is for wood/pellet Your choice! If not then sidewall chimney is another option. BTW The difference between non-thermostat & thermostat is not unlike a auto/truck heater control ,you either control it with fan/feed control (old school ) or like newer vehicles with a exact temp( digital) control. I prefer the old school myself ( came w/therm but i don`t want to use it + seems like the simpler things are the less headaches you`ll have----personal preference ) DO NOT USE ! the 3 inch dia. for chimney liner over 15 feet long Use 4 inch dia.!

Not sure I agree with the warning about not using a 3" liner for over 15'..... Remember this is an insert where there are no bends in the pipe to cause the EVL to rise rapidly. 15' is 15'. I have 3" on both my Quads running 17' and have absolutely no problems with draft.

tjnamtiw · Oct 31, 2012

Master Chief PO said:
Pellet stoves definitely aren`t rocket science to run but I can`t imagine a weekend renter is going to listen closely with great interest and follow the instructions on how to start / run a pellet stove or would you want to be going thru the operating and daily cleaning instructions for each renter . Pellet stoves are usually best operated by their experienced owner , who is someone who got to know it`s particular foibles thru experience .

I`d seriously consider rebuilding the chimney vs the cost of a pellet stove.
Not to mention the ambience of a real fire .I see nothing cozy or romantic in a pellet stove vs a wood fire. To me a rental cabin screams out for a fireplace or at least a wood stove. (just my opinions here)

I agree with the Chief on the last part. You sure don't want calls in the middle of the night complaining that YOUR pellet stove doesn't work. There have been others on here in the past lamenting ever putting a pellet stove in a rental.

AbetterChimneynm · Oct 31, 2012

We have a few demo's in the store running over 15 feet with no problems what so ever

Hellfire · Oct 31, 2012

tjnamtiw said:
Not sure I agree with the warning about not using a 3" liner for over 15'..... Remember this is an insert where there are no bends in the pipe to cause the EVL to rise rapidly. 15' is 15'. I have 3" on both my Quads running 17' and have absolutely no problems with draft.

2 sources min. (The owners installation guideline & the flex line manufacture and others require that size ,mine is 27 feet but to each his own ,not losing much $$ or sleep by going to the larger size + piece of mind w/draft issues) Kinda like header size on a motor , go with the wrong setup & lose performance? But if it works for you that`s fine . Good luck.

tjnamtiw · Oct 31, 2012

Hellfire said:
2 sources min. (The owners installation guideline & the flex line manufacture and others require that size ,mine is 27 feet but to each his own ,not losing much $$ or sleep by going to the larger size + piece of mind w/draft issues) Kinda like header size on a motor , go with the wrong setup & lose performance? But if it works for you that`s fine . Good luck.

27 feet would be a no-brainer for 4"!

My Quads have the EVL at 27' max at sea level for 3" so we're good to go at 15'. Too big of headers on a motor can kill your performance too.

I see you're in Pa. I always ask fellow Pa'ers (born and raised there) why they chose not to go with the modern coal stokers that are on the market. Even at the inflated price of coal, they beat pellets by a wide margin. Down here in Ga, coal is non-existent so I bring a few bags down with me after each trip home for my coal/wood cook stove.

UPDATE THANKS TO DEXTERDAY:

> EVL on Vertical is 1 foot for each 2 feet of vertical, so even a 27 foot pure vertical flue is really only 13.5 feet that the stove sees. My stoves start out with a vertical connection to the flex so there is NO horizontal piping at all. My quad could actually have a 54 foot vertical pipe and still satisfy the requirements !!!

! Not that I would do THAT !!!

!

Hellfire · Oct 31, 2012

Born & raised in NJ but relatives both sides of family from PA kinda reversed course but that`s another story. Anyway just sending info to crowinghen as a general guideline as to sizing but did not get length. I think the reason coal (lately)is the bastard fuel is because of the EPA restrictions ,did you see the coal plants that are shutting down?(check into it) & also dirty compared to others. Plus a lot of people use coal for hydronic/boiler ,heat + domestic here. ie: older homes ,but some buy coal for what you have too . Seems to be a lot of those outdoor burners around here(popular)but also are being restricted.

tjnamtiw · Oct 31, 2012

Hellfire said:
Born & raised in NJ but relatives both sides of family from PA kinda reversed course but that`s another story. Anyway just sending info to crowinghen as a general guideline as to sizing but did not get length. I think the reason coal (lately)is the bastard fuel is because of the EPA restrictions ,did you see the coal plants that are shutting down?(check into it) & also dirty compared to others. Plus a lot of people use coal for hydronic/boiler ,heat + domestic here. ie: older homes ,but some buy coal for what you have too . Seems to be a lot of those outdoor burners around here(popular)but also are being restricted.

Hopefully, the EPA will be put back in their place come early next year so that coal can reemerge as a viable source of heat/electricity used properly. My brother-in-law has a Keystoker that he swears by. Almost runs itself. In fact, his generator is keeping it going as we speak! Very little dirt or dust and, as you know, plenty of steady heat. Here's a great comparison tool for various fuels. What makes it so good is that you also factor in your heat distribution system efficiency. http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm Coal was $217 a ton a month ago when I was up there. That's the price at the breaker.

DexterDay · Oct 31, 2012

Hellfire said:
2 sources min. (The owners installation guideline & the flex line manufacture and others require that size ,mine is 27 feet but to each his own ,not losing much $$ or sleep by going to the larger size + piece of mind w/draft issues) Kinda like header size on a motor , go with the wrong setup & lose performance? But if it works for you that`s fine . Good luck.

EVL is a calculation. Not total length.

For every 1 ft of Vert it is = to 1/2 ft of EVL. So 15' of vert is only 7.5 EVL. Add the cleanout T and its still only 12.5' EVL. Max EVL for 3" (insert in ideal elevation) is 20' Vertical liner and a cleanout T (20' vert = 10' EVL + 5' EVL for Cleanout T = 15' EVL)

Measurements are as follows-
1 ft horiz = 1 ft
1 ft vert. = 1/2 ft
45° is = 2.5 ft
90° or T = 5 ft

90°'s ad up quick. But vert provides great draft. The 20' of vert and cleanout T is the same as a system that has a 90° on the back of stove to 4 ft vert, to 90°, to 3 ft horiz, qnd then cap (90°, 4' vert, 90°, 3' horiz, cap = 15')

SmokeyTheBear · Oct 31, 2012

Why is you folks always leave out the import stuff, the evls of those 45's and 90's double if they are horizontal.

DexterDay · Oct 31, 2012

SmokeyTheBear said:
Why is you folks always leave out the import stuff, the evls of those 45's and 90's double if they are horizontal.

Because we are talking Inserts with nothing but a Cleanout-T and Vert

That's why...

Ironhorse74 · Oct 31, 2012

I live in the same area as you. A 40k btu pellet insert along with the back up electric shoulld do a good job even with no insulation in our climate at sea level. My favorite insert is the St Croix Ashby. Nice ashpan, thermostat and can be cleaned without removing it from the fireplace every year. Will save you some bucks on maintenance. Ping me if you need a recommendation for a dealer.

Peace

Brad

SmokeyTheBear · Oct 31, 2012

DexterDay said:
Because we are talking Inserts with nothing but a Cleanout-T and Vert

That's why...

You hope.

DexterDay · Oct 31, 2012

Where is said info on doubling the EVL if Horizontal?

Lots of 45°'s and/or 90°'s in a Direct vent system? I have never heard of the doubling of angles. Just vert or horiz "Sections".

So a 90° is 10' EVL if horizontal? My manuals (all models and vent manufacturer) dont say anything to this point?

Just wondering?

I still have not received proper info on the Clear and Grey Control boxes for Quads. Just because Don had one stove that had a made up symptom (CSS), it became gospel.

Just want to make sure we have facts here. Never heard of this before..

Sorry for the Hijack crowinghen. If you do get an insert. A 4" liner will only help. But may not be necessary

As for models. Shop around and find a unit over 40,000 with features you like and also a dealer you like. Sometimes the dealer can be more of a selling factor than the brand or stove itself.

Good luck....

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