Need help deciding on a pellet insert..please!

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Paul Raz

Paul Raz

Feeling the Heat
Oct 16, 2012
248
Orange County, NY
Hi All... I'm very new to this Forum, but wanted to hop right in with my question(s). So I am very torn as to what I should do. I just purchased a Harmon accentra but was very torn between the quadra fire and this. I am trying to heat 2000 sq ft. The quad just had too many bad reviews. But I loved the BTU output(52,000) as opposed to Harman(42,000 btu). I went with the Harman, but am still not sure it will heat the needed area. Now looking at the enviro m55 insert. In your opinion is it better than the harman and will it heat 2000 sq ft better than the Harman.
On the flip side I love that the Harman is very easy to use and it is rated very high with very minimal bad reviews and the ease of use. If the BTU output was bigger I wouldn't even question this, but sadly it is not. When speaking with the dealer he explained that just because the enviro has a larger btu output it doesn't always mean it will give off more heat. He went on to explain that I would be thrilled with the heat output from the Harman, but I'm just worried that this is a sales pitch. Any info any of you can give would be really helpful. I look forward to being part of this Forum and thanks for having me.

Paul Raz
 
Look carefully at the dates on those bad reviews of the Quadrafire. I decided last year to take a chance after realizing that most were old. I have no regrets. I have had only one problem with the Mt Vernon AE insert (a burned out heater), and that was fixed promptly by the service people. The new igniter is a revised design.
The Mt Vernon AE insert has been easy to maintain and impressive in its heat output. It provides heat for the first floor of my colonial salt box and maintains reasonably even temperature. I clean it about once a week, and it really hasn't required any other attention. With its automatic setback thermostat, it makes efficient use of fuel.
 
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Harvey Schneider said:
Look carefully at the dates on those bad reviews of the Quadrafire. I decided last year to take a chance after realizing three most were old. I have no regrets. I have had only one problem with the Mt Vernon AE insert (a burned out heater), and that was fixed promptly by the service people. The new igniter is a revised design.
The Mt Vernon AE insert has been easy to maintain and impressive in its heat output. It provides heat for the first floor of my colonial salt box and maintains reasonably even temperature. I clean it about once a week, and it really hasn't required any other attention. With its automatic setback thermostat, it makes efficient use of fuel.
Click to expand...
 
Harvey, thanks for getting back to me, I actually did look at those dates and most were at the beginning of this year. That was what actually got me to change my mind. Not to mention the wife read those same reviews and was instantly scared away. Usually I take reviews with a grain of salt and toss out the highest and lowest and concentrate in the middle, but almost all were complaining about igniter issues. Me being so new to this I don't want to have to figure out what's wrong because I know next to nothing about these.
 
Paul,
I have a M55 and while I like it I think you made a good decision. Most pellet stove owners don't run their stoves at max output. What I can do on heat level 3 you might have to do at a slightly higher setting. But, overall I think you will be happy with your Harman. There are a lot of things I like about the Mt. Vernon, but several that I don't like which are important:

-it doesn't slide out on rails. This makes maintenance very difficult. Just talk to guys with inserts that don't slide out on rails. They complain about how difficult it is to get the stove out/in.
-the autoclean burn pot dumps every 2-3hrs which requires the stove to shut down and re-light. Quite inconvenient during the middle of winter and from what I hear sometimes a clinker won't drop out or cause the door to get jammed. Quad should just do away with this autoclean burn pot and make it a manual style and I think a lot of people would be much happier.

I don't want to sound like I'm badmouthing the Mt. Vernon, because I don't want to do that. Each stove has it's pros and cons. But those two were the ones that made me narrow my choice down to either the M55 or the Accentra.

One thing I didn't like with the Accentra is where they put the convection blower. You have to pull the stove out and tip it up on end to be able to work on it. But, otherwise the stove is pretty high tech. The M55 will put out as much as the Mt Vernon, but has gone thru some growing pains with convection blowers. They have the problem fixed, but now there is no noise advantage to the M55 or the Accentra. Just a few thoughts...
 
smoke show said:
What Quad model were you considering?
Click to expand...
The one that i purchased is the Harman, just trying to make sure I made the right decision. Might be a little buyers remorse from such a costly stove.
 
flynfrfun said:
Paul,
I have a M55 and while I like it I think you made a good decision. Most pellet stove owners don't run their stoves at max output. What I can do on heat level 3 you might have to do at a slightly higher setting. But, overall I think you will be happy with your Harman. There are a lot of things I like about the Mt. Vernon, but several that I don't like which are important:

-it doesn't slide out on rails. This makes maintenance very difficult. Just talk to guys with inserts that don't slide out on rails. They complain about how difficult it is to get the stove out/in.


-the autoclean burn pot dumps every 2-3hrs which requires the stove to shut down and re-light. Quite inconvenient during the middle of winter and from what I hear sometimes a clinker won't drop out or cause the door to get jammed. Quad should just do away with this autoclean burn pot and make it a manual style and I think a lot of people would be much happier.

I don't want to sound like I'm badmouthing the Mt. Vernon, because I don't want to do that. Each stove has it's pros and cons. But those two were the ones that made me narrow my choice down to either the M55 or the Accentra.

One thing I didn't like with the Accentra is where they put the convection blower. You have to pull the stove out and tip it up on end to be able to work on it. But, otherwise the stove is pretty high tech. The M55 will put out as much as the Mt Vernon, but has gone thru some growing pains with convection blowers. They have the problem fixed, but now there is no noise advantage to the M55 or the Accentra. Just a few thoughts...
Click to expand...
 
I keep reporting these....sorry guys! What I was trying to ask was will the Harman Accentra pump out the same heat as the M55 or the Mt Vernon? Or will these be way off?
 
Paul Raz said:
Hi All... I'm very new to this Forum, but wanted to hop right in with my question(s). So I am very torn as to what I should do. I just purchased a Harmon accentra but was very torn between the quadra fire and this. I am trying to heat 2000 sq ft. The quad just had too many bad reviews. But I loved the BTU output(52,000) as opposed to Harman(42,000 btu). I went with the Harman, but am still not sure it will heat the needed area. Now looking at the enviro m55 insert. In your opinion is it better than the harman and will it heat 2000 sq ft better than the Harman.
On the flip side I love that the Harman is very easy to use and it is rated very high with very minimal bad reviews and the ease of use. If the BTU output was bigger I wouldn't even question this, but sadly it is not. When speaking with the dealer he explained that just because the enviro has a larger btu output it doesn't always mean it will give off more heat. He went on to explain that I would be thrilled with the heat output from the Harman, but I'm just worried that this is a sales pitch. Any info any of you can give would be really helpful. I look forward to being part of this Forum and thanks for having me.

Paul Raz
Click to expand...


I think there is confusion on BTUs here. The only way you will get 42,000 input BTU out of a stove is to burn approx 5 lbs a pellets an hour. If you are burning a single bag of pellets a day in a stove you are averaging 1.66 lbs of pellets an hour and that is only 13,612 BTUs. The stove does not make BTU the amount of pellets does. This is input BTU. Taking into consideration your pellets are 8,200 BTU per pound.
 
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Paul, I recently bought a Mt Vernon and am thinking that I'm regretting it. Two primary issues (so far):

1. NOISE! This thing is loud! The combustion blower creates all kinds of howling and whistling from the air blowing through the holes in the burn pot (they're clean - it's new, no buildup in the holes). The more heat output, the louder the howling. Seems that some engineering on the orifices is in order, and I would have expected that in this "advanced" of a stove. The convection fan roars as well. And the output varies constantly, so it's not a steady roar. Very annoying. The highest heat setting I've had it at is Med High - can't imagine what High is like. I've been using the Automatic heat setting function, which uses the advanced programming of the unit to adjust output to demand. That seems to make the noise even worse with constant cycling. And the blowers aren't in much shrouding, so the noise they make isn't very effectively contained. All-in-all, they need to invest a lot more in their noise engineering.

2. Heat output. Or more precisely, heat output in automatic mode. It's supposed to adjust the output based on how close the room temp is to the desired temp. So if you have the thermostat set at 70 and the room is 50, it should be cranking out at High, but when the room is up to 69, it should be dialed down to Low. Problem is, mine never gets close to 70. It holds the room temp at about 66 when I've set the stat at 70. It's not that cold out yet. The auto output is holding the stove at Medium or ML, so it's not like it doesn't have the capacity to get the heat up to 70. Just as well - if it did crank up, I'd go deaf.

One other note - the first day I fired it up, the auger motor made an annoying ticking/grinding noise. Turned out to be the reduction gear assembly attached to it. Dealer changed it out promptly, but peeking inside at the small plastic gears gives me the sneaking suspicion that this will be a problematic and expensive part in the future (after the warranty's expired).

On a scale of 1 to 10, my early impression is a solid 3. Maybe it'll change, hopefully upward.
 
Deering said:
Paul, I recently bought a Mt Vernon and am thinking that I'm regretting it. Two primary issues (so far):

1. NOISE! This thing is loud! The combustion blower creates all kinds of howling and whistling from the air blowing through the holes in the burn pot (they're clean - it's new, no buildup in the holes). The more heat output, the louder the howling. Seems that some engineering on the orifices is in order, and I would have expected that in this "advanced" of a stove. The convection fan roars as well. And the output varies constantly, so it's not a steady roar. Very annoying. The highest heat setting I've had it at is Med High - can't imagine what High is like. I've been using the Automatic heat setting function, which uses the advanced programming of the unit to adjust output to demand. That seems to make the noise even worse with constant cycling. And the blowers aren't in much shrouding, so the noise they make isn't very effectively contained. All-in-all, they need to invest a lot more in their noise engineering.
Click to expand...

The MtV AE is one of the quietest stoves on the market

Deering said:
2. Heat output. Or more precisely, heat output in automatic mode. It's supposed to adjust the output based on how close the room temp is to the desired temp. So if you have the thermostat set at 70 and the room is 50, it should be cranking out at High, but when the room is up to 69, it should be dialed down to Low. Problem is, mine never gets close to 70. It holds the room temp at about 66 when I've set the stat at 70. It's not that cold out yet. The auto output is holding the stove at Medium or ML, so it's not like it doesn't have the capacity to get the heat up to 70. Just as well - if it did crank up, I'd go deaf.
Click to expand...
The MtV AE is one of the larger BTU output stoves on the market. You should have done a heat loss calculation prior to purchasing.
You could use manual mode, it's there for a reason.
 
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smoke show said:
The MtV AE is one of the quietest stoves on the market


The MtV AE is one of the larger BTU output stoves on the market. You should have done a heat loss calculation prior to purchasing.
You could use manual mode, it's there for a reason.
Click to expand...

Strike a nerve??
 
I also have a Quad Santa Fe. My subjective opinion is that it's considerably quieter than the MT Vernon, though difficult to tell since it's in a different location. If the Vernon is the quietest on the market, well....I just don't know what to say. Then the rest of them would be even more unbearable.

There's decibels and there's noise. The fact that the fans on the MV are constantly varying their speed makes them far more irritating.

Mine is free-standing. I suspect an insert would be quieter with the fans inside the fireplace enclosure.

As far as output, the stove can easily meet the current demand. I performed a heat loss calculation. I'm also an engineer. It's the control algorithm that's faulty. If the stove won't do the job it's capable of doing as designed, and I have to use manual mode, why did I pay the big bucks for a stove with automatic whiz bangs that don't work?
 
Deering said:
Paul, I recently bought a Mt Vernon and am thinking that I'm regretting it. Two primary issues (so far):

1. NOISE! This thing is loud! The combustion blower creates all kinds of howling and whistling from the air blowing through the holes in the burn pot (they're clean - it's new, no buildup in the holes). The more heat output, the louder the howling. Seems that some engineering on the orifices is in order, and I would have expected that in this "advanced" of a stove. The convection fan roars as well. And the output varies constantly, so it's not a steady roar. Very annoying. The highest heat setting I've had it at is Med High - can't imagine what High is like. I've been using the Automatic heat setting function, which uses the advanced programming of the unit to adjust output to demand. That seems to make the noise even worse with constant cycling. And the blowers aren't in much shrouding, so the noise they make isn't very effectively contained. All-in-all, they need to invest a lot more in their noise engineering.

2. Heat output. Or more precisely, heat output in automatic mode. It's supposed to adjust the output based on how close the room temp is to the desired temp. So if you have the thermostat set at 70 and the room is 50, it should be cranking out at High, but when the room is up to 69, it should be dialed down to Low. Problem is, mine never gets close to 70. It holds the room temp at about 66 when I've set the stat at 70. It's not that cold out yet. The auto output is holding the stove at Medium or ML, so it's not like it doesn't have the capacity to get the heat up to 70. Just as well - if it did crank up, I'd go deaf.

One other note - the first day I fired it up, the auger motor made an annoying ticking/grinding noise. Turned out to be the reduction gear assembly attached to it. Dealer changed it out promptly, but peeking inside at the small plastic gears gives me the sneaking suspicion that this will be a problematic and expensive part in the future (after the warranty's expired).

On a scale of 1 to 10, my early impression is a solid 3. Maybe it'll change, hopefully upward.
Click to expand...


Wow, I have never heard of this and kinda left speechless. I have a Mt Vernon in my frontroom and this stove is so quiet I do not even know if it is running unless I see the flame. I do not know what to say.

Eric
 
Paul Raz said:
Hi All... I'm very new to this Forum, but wanted to hop right in with my question(s). So I am very torn as to what I should do. I just purchased a Harmon accentra but was very torn between the quadra fire and this. I am trying to heat 2000 sq ft. The quad just had too many bad reviews. But I loved the BTU output(52,000) as opposed to Harman(42,000 btu). I went with the Harman, but am still not sure it will heat the needed area. Now looking at the enviro m55 insert. In your opinion is it better than the harman and will it heat 2000 sq ft better than the Harman.
On the flip side I love that the Harman is very easy to use and it is rated very high with very minimal bad reviews and the ease of use. If the BTU output was bigger I wouldn't even question this, but sadly it is not. When speaking with the dealer he explained that just because the enviro has a larger btu output it doesn't always mean it will give off more heat. He went on to explain that I would be thrilled with the heat output from the Harman, but I'm just worried that this is a sales pitch. Any info any of you can give would be really helpful. I look forward to being part of this Forum and thanks for having me.

Paul Raz
Click to expand...
You should have come here first before believing 'bad reviews'. We Quad owners love our Quads for simplicity and ease of operation/maintenance. Harman is just as good. Ask the Harman owners. We all love what we have........... well, mostly. They all will be more work and can fail easier than a wood burner.
It's an entirely different animal with electronics and several motors. Of course, you're going to get noise in the burnpot. The intensity of the airflow is what is creating the almost complete burning of the pellets. It's a little blast furnace in there. So many buy these things thinking you just dump in pellets and turn the thermostat up. IT AIN'T THAT EASY!
Oh, and I don't know who was writing bad reviews about igniters either. I see a lot more posts on here about igniter problems in other stoves. Many times while troubleshooting, people ASS U ME that it's the igniter since it hangs out front but you need to have some mechanical aptitude to deal with these beasts. If you don't, maybe you better return it. Just saying.
 
Eric, do you have a free-standing unit or an insert? I suspect a good deal of the noise comes from the fans themselves. They're not very well shrouded. There's absolutely no question when it's running - wife and I have to talk with elevated voices. Kind of a relief when it shuts down and is silent.

Also, do you typically run yours in manual or automatic mode?

Perhaps there's something wrong with mine?

One other observation - I set it on Manual High today just to see how loud it really is. It's actually somewhat quieter than the mid-level settings. Or at least the noise is a steady 'whoosh' rather than the constant hunting. And the heat output between MH and H is substantial. When it's on L it's very quiet...but obviously not a lot of heat either.

Believe me, I want this thing to work. I spent a lot of money on it, and am a big pellet supporter. I burn cordwood too - Quad Bodega Bay insert. I like cordwood, but waking up to a warm house was the goal.
 
tjn, I get the 'blast furnace' concept. I wonder if they could have tuned the air injection ports to reduce noise, while still getting the velocity they needed. Interesting that at high setting the firepot noise is a lot less. I wonder if the amount of pellets in the firepot changes the acoustics?

Complex beasts, no doubt. And lots of opportunity for (over) engineering.
 
There has been issues with air flow noises if the ash pan isn't fully seated. Also check to make sure the baffle is in place on the inside back wall of the ash pan area.(pan removed)
 
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