PH First Impressions...

Slow1 · Nov 2, 2012

Rather than hijack other threads too much I figure I should put my comments in a new discussion... Below is a summary of where I am so far taken from an answer I posted elsewhere last night -

I've been taking the seasoning process VERY slow simply out of an overabundance of caution. The first fire was just kindling and only took stovetop up to about 150* yet there was some sizzling and obvious wet areas particularly around the door so I know it did some good. Door was a bit 'stuck' when stove had cooled down but not a big deal and seems to work fine, I think some cement or some such just got stuck in there.

Second was a larger pile of kindling and a bit higher temp and I saw some wet areas in back of the stove (inside) near where the metal slanted top ends - no sizzling this time though.

Third I put a couple small splits in there as well under the kindling (doing top-down fires each time with 1/4 super cedar as starter) and actually got up to cat temp so I engaged it and I swear I saw some secondary burn in there to boot. Max temp wasn't much over 300 I don't think so it really wasn't much of a burn as it was about done with the flames when I engaged the cat. Stayed warm for quite a while.

Fourth (this one) I put in 4 splits (small/medium) as well as slightly less kindling (just enough to get it going). This time it definitely got up to cat engaged and I did see the secondaries burn for a bit. Warm outside (about 50*) so not ideal temps for draft etc - flame went out in stove when less than 1/2 on air, but would flame up when I adjusted air up. Too dark to look for smoke outside but temps on stovetop indicate it was burning the cat. After down to coals I checked surface temp and the stones were reading 300+, out of curiosity I lifted the middle stone and checked the cooktop under with the IR gun and it read something like 450-500 so clearly it was good and hot in there.

As to the smell - each burn so far has had some smell - seems to be different with each one. It has not been unbearable and we have not opened any windows as a result. Then again - I haven't cranked up the heat yet either. I suspect that I'll get smell (as usual) every time I hit a new high temp so I'm prepared for more in the next few burns.

I'm not sure if I'm going to consider myself done with seasoning or not. I didn't see any moisture during this 4th burn or hear any sizzling so perhaps it is all done now - I'll inspect the inside of the box and make a decision later. Perhaps the weather will decide for me in the end as tonight's fire was enough to take the house up 3-4 degrees and the wife thought it was a bit warm - so enough for today!

Overall I'm quite pleased really - eager to really BURN the stove to see what it can do. This morning I did another 'medium' fire - about 4 splits worth of wood including the kindling. Was easy to get going in my morning "kid prep" routine. Obviously I was watching it more than I will in the future but really nothing much to getting it going and I did engage the cat after about 30-40 minutes (?). Was burning somewhat low - flames were lazy to not there after a while. No smoke out the stack when I left and returned from dropping kids off at school. Clearly is able to put out heat - warmed the house a noticeable amount, but then again it was in the 40's outside so I don't think that is all that hard to do.

I am having to give it more air than I expected - running between 1/2 and 3/4 open. But I am attributing that to the warmer weather. If it were not for playing with a new stove I doubt I'd even be burning when it is 50* outside and I know even with the FV I had marginal draft at these temps.

Waulie · Nov 2, 2012

Congrats Slow1!

I think you can consider your seasoning done. I doubt you'll be running that puppy much above 450 until it gets really cold anyway. You've already had it over 300, so you should be set.

Are you using the stove top temp as the gauge to enable the cat? I used to do that, but have lately been using external single wall stove pipe temps. I vent vertically. With the thermometer on the pipe 10" above the stove, I have been engaging at 350. This seems to work much better than using stove top temps to eliminate cat stalls, non-firings, and also lets you engage quicker if starting with a cold(ish) stove. Of course, you have a new cat so you can probably engage a bit sooner.

Once I engage the cat, I only get the lazy flames unless I have a lot of wood in there or turn up the air. You'll probably find the flames will go completely out sometimes and then the lazy flames will appear for awhile. This is the low cat burn that you'll probably recognize from the Fireview (at least it sounds the same from what I've read).

I know you're taking it slow(1),which is prudent. I find I can consistently get the cat engaged after about 15 minutes and have her turned down and ready to burn for 12 hours after about 20 minutes. I used to bring it up to temp slower, but am convinced the stove actually likes stretching her legs a bit. I also used to engage with the air turned quite a ways down. I now engage with the air at about 50%, give it a few minutes there, and then set it where I want it (which is almost always a whisker above completely closed). This seems to give better cat performance.

Enjoy!

Slow1 · Nov 2, 2012

Waulie said:
Are you using the stove top temp as the gauge to enable the cat? I used to do that, but have lately been using external single wall stove pipe temps. I vent vertically. With the

I'm using the stove top temp - I too am venting vertically but I have double wall pipe so surface temp there is likely not all that useful. I have the thermometer sitting on the cast next to the stove pipe as a guide, but then use my IR thermometer to check the stone temp in the center. I wonder if I will be able to use the thermometer located on the cast there next to the flue exit as my cat guide in the future once I figure out what temps to go by although it seems this temp is rather stable most of the time so perhaps it isn't reactive enough. If you have an IR thermometer can you give a check and tell me how this temp may (or may not) relate to the single wall pipe temps?

Waulie said:
Once I engage the cat, I only get the lazy flames unless I have a lot of wood in there or turn up the air. You'll probably find the flames will go completely out sometimes and then the lazy flames will appear for awhile. This is the low cat burn that you'll probably recognize from the Fireview (at least it sounds the same from what I've read).

Indeed the stove did have a fire very similar to the FV fire this morning. I had virtually no flame for much of the time but plenty of heat off the top. I turned the air up and got more flames in the box just to look at them.

Somewhat related, I'm also wondering if due to the way the air enters (seems to be focused at the bottom front - almost looks like it blows in there) if perhaps the stove would prefer a bottom-up rather than top-down burn.

Waulie said:
I find I can consistently get the cat engaged after about 15 minutes and have her turned down and ready to burn for 12 hours after about 20 minutes. I used to bring it up to temp

I will have to adjust my fire building method and/or put more wood in there to get the stove top up to 250+ within 15 minutes. Perhaps I could get the metal pieces up to that temp fast, but I don't think the stone will report that temp in 15 mins from a cold start.

Waulie said:
I also used to engage with the air turned quite a ways down. I now engage with the air at about 50%, give it a few minutes there, and then set it where I want it (which is almost always a whisker above completely closed). This seems to give better cat performance.

I'll keep that in mind going forward - I wonder if I could burn with the air that low, perhaps once it cools down more outside but today I think it may have snuffed the fire out... And in case anyone wonders, yes I have confidence in my wood being dry - it lights up quickly etc, it is at least 3 years stacked and has spent the last several months sitting in the house - no MM (my HF model broke the prongs off in a piece of oak), but all other subjective tests pass.

Waulie · Nov 2, 2012

Slow1 said:
I'm using the stove top temp - I too am venting vertically but I have double wall pipe so surface temp there is likely not all that useful. I have the thermometer sitting on the cast next to the stove pipe as a guide, but then use my IR thermometer to check the stone temp in the center. I wonder if I will be able to use the thermometer located on the cast there next to the flue exit as my cat guide in the future once I figure out what temps to go by although it seems this temp is rather stable most of the time so perhaps it isn't reactive enough. If you have an IR thermometer can you give a check and tell me how this temp may (or may not) relate to the single wall pipe temps?

Unfortunately, I don't have an IR. I can play around with my surface therm and see how it varies from the stovepipe temps.

Slow1 said:
I will have to adjust my fire building method and/or put more wood in there to get the stove top up to 250+ within 15 minutes. Perhaps I could get the metal pieces up to that temp fast, but I don't think the stone will report that temp in 15 mins from a cold start.

From a cold start, I wouldn't get the top temps up that fast either. But, I can get the stovepipe to 350 that fast. I leave the air wide open until that fire is raging, then turn it down to about half. Flue temps climb pretty darn fast with the draft open. Once I close the bypass, flue temps immediately start dropping and top temps immediately start climbing.

That's the problem with trying to use the stone temps to engage the cat. From a cold start, you're likely to wait too long. From a warm start, you won't really know since you may be loading with the stone still at 250 but a quite cold flue.

Slow1 said:
I'll keep that in mind going forward - I wonder if I could burn with the air that low, perhaps once it cools down more outside but today I think it may have snuffed the fire out... And in case anyone wonders, yes I have confidence in my wood being dry - it lights up quickly etc, it is at least 3 years stacked and has spent the last several months sitting in the house - no MM (my HF model broke the prongs off in a piece of oak), but all other subjective tests pass.

That's a good point. When it was warmer this fall, I did have to leave the air open a bit more or the cat would stall. Now, in the low 40s as highs I can turn it right down. Not sure what your temps have been, but for me it seems like 45+ is a pain.

Backwoods Savage · Nov 2, 2012

Slow, it sounds like you are doing nicely. I want to hear that the wife gets too warm in January!

I will not say who I got this picture from because I have not asked yet if he minded if I post. Therefore his name will not be mentioned here but this picture is after a 24 hour burn in his PH.

Waulie · Nov 2, 2012

Backwoods Savage said:
Slow, it sounds like you are doing nicely. I want to hear that the wife gets too warm in January!

I will not say who I got this picture from because I have not asked yet if he minded if I post. Therefore his name will not be mentioned here but this picture is after a 24 hour burn in his PH.
View attachment 79572

Come on, Dennis. You know that he only thinks that is after a 24 hour burn.

Flamestead · Nov 2, 2012

Slow1 said:
...snip...
Somewhat related, I'm also wondering if due to the way the air enters (seems to be focused at the bottom front - almost looks like it blows in there) if perhaps the stove would prefer a bottom-up rather than top-down burn.

I would agree with the bottom-up burn on a slow, lazy mostly cat burn. Note the air hole in the center, between the andirons, below the glass. The air entering from there will help eat into the wood (help burn the wood) immediately in front of it, often resulting in forming a cavity in under the wood.

I usually move from a wide-open damper to half-open, and then gradually more closed. The range from wide-open to half-open generally is unused - I'd like to have some of that control arm travel available for fine-tuning the last bit of air, as sometimes I have to search for a sweet spot.

Enjoy getting to know your stove - my wife was just noting tonight how much she enjoys operating it compared to previous stoves - it is very stable and controllable.

Slow1 · Nov 2, 2012

Well, I may get my chance to load it up tomorrow which is nice given it is a Saturday so I can watch how it burns. Low tonight should hit 32 and high tomorrow is 50 with not much sun - so I expect the house should cool down a bit and if I do overheat a bit then no real harm will be done.

I don't know about having a pile of coals after 24hrs, but if I can get a 12hr load cycle in the cold part of winter I'll be quite happy, heck - even an 8hr cycle during the coldest part may not be too bad if I'm keeping the place warm enough to satisfy the newly acquired tropical tastes of the family.

rdust · Nov 2, 2012

Backwoods Savage said:
Slow, it sounds like you are doing nicely. I want to hear that the wife gets too warm in January!

I will not say who I got this picture from because I have not asked yet if he minded if I post. Therefore his name will not be mentioned here but this picture is after a 24 hour burn in his PH.
View attachment 79572

<gasp> a dirty glass after a 24 hour burn, oh my say it ain't so! ;lol

Awesome burn time, nice to see others getting to enjoy lengthy burn times with a stove named something other than BlazeKing.

ciccio · Nov 2, 2012

Backwoods Savage said:
Slow, it sounds like you are doing nicely. I want to hear that the wife gets too warm in January!

I will not say who I got this picture from because I have not asked yet if he minded if I post. Therefore his name will not be mentioned here but this picture is after a 24 hour burn in his PH.
View attachment 79572

Dennis no need to ever ask me if you could use my name...you have helped me so much in the past and I am grateful for all the great info you have given me.
Have a great weekend.

ciccio

corey21 · Nov 3, 2012

Congrats.

Slow1 · Nov 3, 2012

Well, this morning it wasn't as cold as I had hoped for outside (about 42) but still house was cool enough to play.

I built a small fire first with three splits and some kindling to get things going.. not sure this was necessary, but hey, I'm playing. Once that was going well and things were warming up, I pushed the pile forward and then loaded up 5 more splits (oddballs) around the pile. These are not oak, not sure what they are really, some softer wood, perhaps maple - rather light. Anyway, I closed the door and ran with nearly full air for a bit and let the load get caught. I had some secondary flames going on top as well. After the temp near the stovepipe was about 300 I engaged the cat and lowered air to about 1/2 and saw beautiful secondary flames, glowing iconal screen etc for a while. Surface temp was rising fast from the 200ish where I engaged cat.

I played with the air settings a bit - nice control, if I close it all the way the flames go out and it is dark, open it up and I get flames. Now about 90 minutes after lightup and stove appears to be cruising nicely. Had some flames on top ghosting when I started writing but now no flames. Air is almost all the way closed. Surface temp is reading 390, door 280, other side 260, the thermometer on cast next to pipe is reading 450, and the surface of the double wall connector pipe is reading 160. Room has warmed up a degree or two but I didn't keep records of all the house temps this time. Wood has settled down and looks to be about 1/2 the volume of the firebox.

I just tweeked the air up a hair and now I have flames on top of the firebox dancing around the air holes. I bet this would make a nice nightlight in the evening.

Slow1 · Nov 3, 2012

Ok, now about 2 1/2 hrs into the burn. Still have air shut down. I have secondary burn (small but there) on top and glowing logs on bottom. I did play with the air a bit and was able to turn it into an inferno and back again (impressed the kids that's for sure). Dragon steamer is snorting with top stone reading about 370 near the steamer. Door is reading just over 400 and the other side is 390. Thermometer next to pipe just under 450 and the double wall connector reading 145. Room is still warming up - outside is now 47 so I expect we'll be toasty in here today.

Waulie · Nov 3, 2012

Sounds great! You'll be in shorts in no time. ::-)

I woke up to a dusting of snow this morning! Just came in from cutting and I'm about to get some shorts on myself. It crazy how warm 72 feels after being outside in the cold for a couple hours. I just have glowing splits in the firebox and the stove is heating away.

dylskee · Nov 3, 2012

Congrats slow! I did the same type of break in as you did with my fireview. And I heard the same type of sizzling in the corners at the front of the stove, definitely the cement curing. After a few low temp fires I ran the stove hot enough to engage the cat and this thing has been great since. I have to admit though, I'm still learning the stove but this is going to be a great heater for sure. I really wanted that PH but I knew it would roast us out of the house, hell the fireview is doing that right now! In the 40s here right now but I started a fire last night to take the chill off and this thing is cranking......

Good luck with your stove, I'm sure you're going to love it. The view is HUGE on that stove, I wish the fireview had a view like that.

greenbrierwv · Nov 3, 2012

I pretty much burn my progress exactly like Waulie. Usually shutting it down at 300 stone top temp and let it burn at 1/2 air for a few minutes and than close air almost completely. I can easily start a fire on good coals after 11 hours. Stove top after 11 hours is usually around 250, with enough coals for relight.

Ciccio, have you posted on your 24 hour burn method?? Im interested.

Slow1 · Nov 3, 2012

Well, here I am at about 8 hours after lighting the stove. Looking into the stove I see what looks like a decent number of coals with some glowing. Doesn't look very lively. House is very warm - about 7 degrees up from this morning (outside is now 51). Stovetop is 190, Door 215 and other side 235. The thermometer next to the pipe however is reading 250. I imagine that if this were a time I wanted more heat I'd be looking at reloading now.

Not bad considering it was not really a full load - certainly not packed. I'm going to just leave it alone and see what is left in another 3 hours or so (whenever I get a chance to look at it again... busy day really).

Backwoods Savage · Nov 3, 2012

Slow, to let you know, I went to bed last night with 3 splits of ash in the Fireview. I've since put in 4 split (all these I'd say were small except one large last night) and it is hot in here. High temperature today is 37 after a low in the 20's overnight. Lots of ice on water this morning. Even at 10:00 when we had to go out to town there was ice in the ditches.

rdust · Nov 3, 2012

Backwoods Savage said:
Slow, to let you know, I went to bed last night with 3 splits of ash in the Fireview. I've since put in 4 split (all these I'd say were small except one large last night) and it is hot in here. High temperature today is 37 after a low in the 20's overnight. Lots of ice on water this morning. Even at 10:00 when we had to go out to town there was ice in the ditches.

We certainly didn't get the warm up they were predicting today. High of 47, ahhhh, yeah right!

Slow1 · Nov 3, 2012

Ok... just over 11 hrs later I thought it was out. However I stirred up the coals (ashes are white as can be - impressive) and let the ashes fall into the ash pan. The coals that were left I piled up front and center and let them warm up. Just to prove the point I then stacked three splits in there and shut the door with full air - sure enough after a few minutes there was fire a burning. Wife will do that "shake of the head" when she gets home... oh well, new toy. But at least I proved the point to myself, heh.

Perhaps tomorrow I'll actually stuff the box and see what it can do.

Waulie · Nov 3, 2012

Slow1 said:
Ok... just over 11 hrs later I thought it was out. However I stirred up the coals (ashes are white as can be - impressive) and let the ashes fall into the ash pan. The coals that were left I piled up front and center and let them warm up. Just to prove the point I then stacked three splits in there and shut the door with full air - sure enough after a few minutes there was fire a burning. Wife will do that "shake of the head" when she gets home... oh well, new toy. But at least I proved the point to myself, heh.

Perhaps tomorrow I'll actually stuff the box and see what it can do.

You shouldn't have any problems getting 12 hours on decent size loads. A bit over half a load and I have enough coals to relight after 12. I've made it 17 on a not even full load, but only once. The truth is that I really don't try for anything over 12 hours. I find I just adjust the amount of wood I put in for the right heat for a 12 hour cycle. This took a bit to get down right, but now it's second nature. I never really pack it completely full. I'd rather use just enough wood for 12 hours.

Slow1 · Nov 3, 2012

Waulie said:
You shouldn't have any problems getting 12 hours on decent size loads. A bit over half a load and I have enough coals to relight after 12. I've made it 17 on a not even full load, but only once. The truth is that I really don't try for anything over 12 hours. I find I just adjust the amount of wood I put in for the right heat for a 12 hour cycle. This took a bit to get down right, but now it's second nature. I never really pack it completely full. I'd rather use just enough wood for 12 hours.

I don't know what to call the load I did - lots of pieces but they were oddballs so didn't really stack tight or anything. I'm not sure I could have put many more in there the way I stacked them, but I wasn't trying to stuff it either. I suspect the wood you burn is likely a bit more dense than what I put in there, some of it was softwoods and I don't think I had a single piece of oak or birch in the lot. I also suspect that all my playing with the air (taking it up to massive flame in the box and back again) burned off a bit of the fuel load - it sure threw off some heat. Just fun to do and we do like the pretty flames eh?

I am hoping to get that 12 hr cycle though. I was reminded today of the need to do this when my wife commented that she is looking forward to the larger stove/longer burns so she "won't even have to learn how to operate it". Hmm.. perhaps if that was the goal we should have gone with a BKK, ha! Much to her disappointment I let her know she still will need to know how to do it, but she was happy to hear that if anything it is easier to operate than the FV was. May be premature to say that after only a few fires, but I'm hoping.

BrowningBAR · Nov 3, 2012

Slow1 said:
I am hoping to get that 12 hr cycle though. I was reminded today of the need to do this when my wife commented that she is looking forward to the larger stove/longer burns so she "won't even have to learn how to operate it". Hmm.. perhaps if that was the goal we should have gone with a BKK, ha! Much to her disappointment I let her know she still will need to know how to do it, but she was happy to hear that if anything it is easier to operate than the FV was. May be premature to say that after only a few fires, but I'm hoping.

It should be. Easily. Best way to describe it is the difference between an Encore and a Defiant. The shear size and mass of the Defiant makes things easier to deal with than the Encore. When you increase size and mass, and you can still control the heat, operating a larger stove is incredibly more easy than a smaller stove.

ciccio · Nov 3, 2012

greenbrierwv said:
I pretty much burn my progress exactly like Waulie. Usually shutting it down at 300 stone top temp and let it burn at 1/2 air for a few minutes and than close air almost completely. I can easily start a fire on good coals after 11 hours. Stove top after 11 hours is usually around 250, with enough coals for relight.

Ciccio, have you posted on your 24 hour burn method?? Im interested.

I did not do much diffrent than what you did the only thing I did was I engaged cat at maybe 350 stove top and I closed the air all the way shut, I was not looking for a 24 hour burn but was very impressed when I opened the door and raked the coals to see so many there.....very happy with the stove...

greenbrierwv · Nov 4, 2012

i was wondering about just closing it all the way shut. i guess it still gets a small amount of air to help with the combustion. yeah, im super happy with the stove. i just loaded up for day on a very nice bed of coals and stove top at almost 300. I filled the stove last night 8pm, so after twelve hours, im very happy. i could have went another 6 hours id say on the coals that were in there and still had enough to relight with stove around 250. makes a twice a day burn cycle so easy with this stove.

PH First Impressions...

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