Jury still out...will we be paid?

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What do you think? Will Us Stove pay us for the service calls?


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I agree with everything you say. The problem is 1) high cost to the MFG (time, resources) and 2) Most consumers will refuse this and buy something else.

We will stand behind our product even if a dealer goes out of business. After all many sales are done at big box stores with no dealer support.

The problem as I see it is how to handle warranty problems that are customer related. We're trying a PDF 'check-list' for each model so that when a customer calls rather than argue over the phone about their 'perfect' installation they can go over every step of the installation, maintenance & operation along with pictures. That way as the customer go through this they may see where something may be deficient (hopefully). We'll see how it goes but if anyone has a better idea. I'd love to hear it.
 
I'm thinking it would make more sense to work like AAA - the manufacturer honors the warranty, but can send out a service tech from whatever company is certified in the area. This way, the service tech identifies (hopefully correctly) the issue and then initiates any parts request. That way, parts aren't being thrown at the stove based on a phone conversation. I'd rather have someone eyes on.

Either that, or manufacturers need to build stoves with better status/error indicators, that more clearly define potential issues.
 
How about a clear upfront service policy that is explained right at the initial customer service contact that states "if we send out a tech you will be charged a minimum $$ plus parts. If we find that it's a warranty issue then we'll gladly bill the manufacturer" and the customer is off the hook. Being upfront about the service charge before you roll a service guy sets the tone. The customer has to agree or not agree to this upfront.
 
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I agree with most of the posters. If you sent a guy out to put in a new auger and he acknowledged that the old one AND the new one both worked OUT OF THE STOVE but wouldn't turn the auger, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to, as a next step, investigate WHY the auger doesn't turn! A simple twist with pliers should have told him there was a jam. Even I could figure that one out. One service call fee would be reasonable and let the homeowner keep the parts.
This also is one more example of why pellet stoves should not be purchased by a specific segment of our population. Just read some of the posts here (I'm sure you do) and you quickly wonder how these people even manage to get dressed in the morning. :)


So true!!!!!!!!! lololololol
 
I'm thinking it would make more sense to work like AAA - the manufacturer honors the warranty, but can send out a service tech from whatever company is certified in the area. This way, the service tech identifies (hopefully correctly) the issue and then initiates any parts request. That way, parts aren't being thrown at the stove based on a phone conversation. I'd rather have someone eyes on.

Either that, or manufacturers need to build stoves with better status/error indicators, that more clearly define potential issues.

Good points... our newest generation of pellet stove has great diagnostics and we can walk the customer through turning each component individually to test.

Also agree eyeballs are better than phone. We'd love to have techs come over the plant for some training. However, since most techs are small business and can barely peel themselves away for holidays, on top of that the economy being what it is... very few can make the commitment.

Not trying to make excuse but in the environment we face we have some challenges to overcome. We're still working on it.
 
Very few people know how many hours a business owner spends doing things that you never get paid for. That's just the way it is, you just hope that it pays off in the end.
Agree
 
I agree, FyreBug, that the real issue usually is the customer more often than the stove. I also agree with moviemaine that the stoves can be built with more user-friendly interfaces that are now readily available at low cost. These interfaces can easily be programmed to not only control the stoves functions but also troubleshoot and indicate in plain language (not Chinese, hopefully) what is wrong. I know because I have used them for years in an industrial environment. Now that I'm retired, I've developed a program to control my quads if they ever die using even less expensive Cubloc systems.
If you don't want to offer a real training program for the user that would teach him how to properly operate the appliance, then at least a well done video that covers ALL topics thoroughly might be offered prior to purchase so that they could decide if this is an endeavor that they want to commit to. You have to admit that pellet stoves are NOT wood burning fire places and need an operator willing to do more than throw in a piece of wood and turn on a blower.
Finally, I like minnow's suggestion to be upfront with the customer and alert him to the fact that he has a stake in keeping the stove working correctly.
It's all about EDUCATION.
 
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I have not read any of the posts on this. The guy you sent out should have checked everything out. I would not have relied on the home owner or US Stove Co.. When a home owner tells me they have cleaned the stove and I take off the combustion blower and noticed that it has never been taken off, that is when i know the owner has not cleaned the stove or the stove pipe has never been brushed out. I would go back to the service guy. There should be more to look at before the job is done. If the auger motor does not work, then the Vac switch, high limit, tube, hopper switch, motor need to be looked at. Just my thought.:)
 
I have not read any of the posts on this. The guy you sent out should have checked everything out. I would not have relied on the home owner or US Stove Co.. When a home owner tells me they have cleaned the stove and I take off the combustion blower and noticed that it has never been taken off, that is when i know the owner has not cleaned the stove or the stove pipe has never been brushed out. I would go back to the service guy. There should be more to look at before the job is done. If the auger motor does not work, then the Vac switch, high limit, tube, hopper switch, motor need to be looked at. Just my thought.:)
Agree! But the service guy had the auger motor off of the stove so the auger shaft is right there to turn by hand. ?? Right??? Shouldn't have had to go any further to find the final, underlying problem.
 
I agree, FyreBug, that the real issue usually is the customer more often than the stove. I also agree with moviemaine that the stoves can be built with more user-friendly interfaces that are now readily available at low cost. These interfaces can easily be programmed to not only control the stoves functions but also troubleshoot and indicate in plain language (not Chinese, hopefully) what is wrong. I know because I have used them for years in an industrial environment. Now that I'm retired, I've developed a program to control my quads if they ever die using even less expensive Cubloc systems.
If you don't want to offer a real training program for the user that would teach him how to properly operate the appliance, then at least a well done video that covers ALL topics thoroughly might be offered prior to purchase so that they could decide if this is an endeavor that they want to commit to. You have to admit that pellet stoves are NOT wood burning fire places and need an operator willing to do more than throw in a piece of wood and turn on a blower.
Finally, I like minnow's suggestion to be upfront with the customer and alert him to the fact that he has a stake in keeping the stove working correctly.
It's all about EDUCATION.

I like the way you think. Wanna work for us?

We are working on the video. Here's what the first version will look like.



Also, here is what the control board and sofware allows the user to do...

 
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Videos look good.

My only caveat would be that I would streamline the graphics for the User Interface on the LCD. (it's what I do for a living). Your website is professional, the stoves have a modern approach, but the substandard cartoon style images aren't following suit.

Other than that - looks great.
 
Perhaps slightly off topic but a few important things to consider;

1: Scott was contacted by US Stoves to perform a specific service, they provided that service and should be paid. Scott goes on to say "I send out one of my guys and he says that the motor is good but he puts the replacement motor in anyway. Still nothing. Everything else seems to work so now they deem it to be a control board problem. A replacement control board is sent out and the homeowner switches it out. Still nothing. So, TSC determines that the control board they sent out must ALSO be defective...so they send another one" The question at this point is who are "they". I would be willing to bet it went something like this at the customer's house- Tech- I installed the part and your stove still is not working, you need to call US Stove and ask what they would like to do from here. The customer then called and "they" determined it was the control board. Without authorization to tear down and diagnose Scott's technician was technically correct.

This brings us to the problem!

The customer can't imagine ANY way that they should be responsible for the failure. It needs to be explained that the stove is warrantied for the failure of a part or workmanship when the stove is used and maintained properly. They need to sign authorizing teardown to the point of failure acknowledging THEY are responsible if the repair is not covered.

We see a PFI designation and have no idea what it really stands for, it's time for an organization to step forward and create realistic training and guidelines for the industry. Installation requirements will insure that consumers have a safe and proper installation, repair guidelines that set the proper expectations and maintenance requirements that allow the consumer to understand what their responsibilities are.

Imagine the member manufacturers being allowed/required to have links from a national organization that explain policies in plain language, have how to videos for cleaning and troubleshooting, have authorized service technicians/installers listed, and most important a link to Hearth.com

Some manufacturers will only allow warranty work from their network of dealers, what good does that do a consumer whose dealer is no longer in business? who is a little far? who is too busy to get there for 2 or 3 weeks? This leaves a very bad taste in a customer's mouth!

What about the box stores? They do not install, they have no service departments. It hurts this industry when their customers are not satisfied. If there is no control over the installation how safe is that customer? When there are issues and the customer is a single mom trying to save a few bucks who gets bashed?

There are solutions! It is time for a few courageous people to stand up, are you out here?
 
1st Call. They called you and you did what they asked, right?
They owe you for that service. Did they ask for an evaluation of the stove?
Maybe your guy should have found the jam, but they need to pay for at least the first call.

The second call, I would argue that you did what was asked and now you are owed two service calls.

Bill
 
You know....I went out personally cause I knew my guy was overlooking something. Found it. Oh and if it couldn't get any better....and I knew this was coming, the blame is being cast on the pellet vendor and manufacturer.....apparently now they are supposed to pay my service call.
 
You know....I went out personally cause I knew my guy was overlooking something. Found it. Oh and if it couldn't get any better....and I knew this was coming, the blame is being cast on the pellet vendor and manufacturer.....apparently now they are supposed to pay my service call.
The only reason the manafacture should pay for your call is the THEY contacted/contracted you. If as I said there was a CONSISTENT policy it would/should avoid grey areas. If you represented US Stoves and dealt with the customer from the begining it would have been different I am sure. Think of it like this; a customer brother calls a car dealer's service department and says my brothers car would not start and it needs a battery. Here is my credit card number he is coming over please put a battery in it. The brother shows up, you check his battery and tell him it is good but install a new one as you were instructed to do. The customer never tells you to not install the battery. Have you done anything wrong?
 
New information on this Post!!! I just remembered something about US Stoves. Contrary to what they want you to think, they are made in China. Scott, charge them and charge them plenty!

Tom C.
 
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ou know....I went out personally cause I knew my guy was overlooking something. Found it. Oh and if it couldn't get any better....and I knew this was coming, the blame is being cast on the pellet vendor and manufacturer.....apparently now they are supposed to pay my service call.
Everyone has an opinion which they think is right. In the end, the only opinion that counts is yours. It sounds like you have decided to charge for the first call and chalk the second up to client relations. The price of the service call is probably small in the large scheme of things. The reward for doing the right thing is being able to sleep without wondering if you screwed someone. I have eaten very large bills in the past because of things my workers have done. Not because I had to but, because sometimes if your worker uses bad judgement (or doesn't go that extra 6") it reflects on you. I never regretted turning down jobs because I knew that there would extras created by the job (I would mention it) that was not in the original scope of work. Scott I wish you well with what ever your decision will be.
 
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Scott,
I might be off here but; wasn't it you that had a PDF checklist up here for your installers to refer to?
I'm glad you got paid (as I think you should have) but I do believe the headache could have been averted with the tech picking up on BOTH issues.

Someone else asked the question I had: How did the owner burn 2 bags with the hopper lid sw diconnected?

......You need a MA Electrician on ur team???? ==c
 
ah, here goes.....my disclaimer here is that I as well sell, service, install and repair pellets stoves, as well as sell pellets. The short answer is, I think Scott should be paid for the first call and the first call only, because the tech in question really should have gotten this on the first call, regardless of how good or bad they are...the homeowner and/or US stove shouldnt have to pay for something again that should have been repaired first time out.

There are ALOT of good points above, all equally valid and standing on their own merits, although it must be understood that all of the opinions will be clouded by the posters' station in life and past experiences. Myself, I sell em and service em, so, my opinion falls there.

Originally, it was the homeowners' fault. Excessive fines, probably from a damp bag, should never have found their way in there. Wasnt an equipment failure, but a failure of the user. Period. The stove didnt need new parts, the clog happened because the owner wasnt diligent enough.....this shouldnt come out of US Stoves' pocket, or Scotts. That being said, well, the original tech messed up in not checking for the obvious, and what is pretty obvious really, to any tech, if not the homeowner.

There are bad products, bad pellets, bad dealers, bad technicians, and, well, bad owners. Thats a problem today....people never seem to take ownership of their shortcomings, as a rule. Scott admits his tech made an error. But will the homeowner ever allow it was also, at least in part if not fully, their fault? Or, is it ever the owners' fault? We do get the occaisional "my bad" from owners, and I appreciate that. They may not like the fact that their error cost them money, but in most cases, they wont make that same error again.....those are stand-up folks. Then there are the folks who want to blame anything and everything, other than themselves, for the issue at hand. Dealer didnt tell me that, not in the manual, shouldnt be like that, whatever.

I hear alot of folks asking things like, "what if the original dealer goes out of business?", "what if the dealer is too far away?", "what if the dealer offers no service (big boxes)?", all VERY good questions. Some manufacturers deal directly with the end user, like Englander, and thats fine too, as long as the end user is willing to do repairs, should they be necessary. If not, its up to the END USER to hire, AND PAY, an independant technician to do the work. get an idea what the labor charges will be ahead of time, etc. But, if you call the guy, pay the guy. Someone above mentioned a single mom with kids....heck, I know of several, and that bias that a mom cant be minimally technically adept is offensive. Thats no excuse.

Then there's the argument that stove warrantees should be like auto warrantees.....do the auto guys come to your house and do house calls? Not usually.

well, sorry folks, and thanks for listening to my rant.......fact is, not everyone should own/operate a pellet stove because they simply are unwilling to do the work associated with such items.....
 
How about a clear upfront service policy that is explained right at the initial customer service contact that states "if we send out a tech you will be charged a minimum $$ plus parts. If we find that it's a warranty issue then we'll gladly bill the manufacturer" and the customer is off the hook. Being upfront about the service charge before you roll a service guy sets the tone. The customer has to agree or not agree to this upfront.


this is exactly what we do, Minnow! And we get a credit card number when the service request is logged.....not after the work is done. Much easier to explain the service charge structure ahead of time than after the work has been done, stove is fixed, and customer doesnt wanna pay.....
 
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