tax credit

Well, when these things are extended, they're usually made retroactive to the date it expired (Jan.1, 2012). Any word on any tax credit for wood stove installations, or just pellet pigs?

I will be bringing it up with our cpa when we do our taxes.I plan on taking advantage of it.

Not that I wish to complain, I'll be getting my $300, but it makes absolutely no sense to make this retroactive to 2012, since the eligible period had expired when the bill was passed, it can't act as an incentive. They might as well have randomly given $300 to a few thousand taxpayers, and called it a micro-stimulus. Most people who installed a stove, or any qualifying items in 2012 will never realize they are even eligible. I am scrambling to find receipts for some insulation and replacement windows I installed last year, but probably never kept since they seemed to have no tax benefit at the time.

Oh well.

TE

TradEddie said:

Not that I wish to complain, I'll be getting my $300, but it makes absolutely no sense to make this retroactive to 2012, since the eligible period had expired when the bill was passed, it can't act as an incentive.

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There's a lot in the new tax bill that makes no sense.

Again... any word on credit for woodstove installs, or just pellet stoves?

Absolutely, biomass stoves over 75% efficient.

http://www.hpba.org/government-affairs/major-projects/25c-tax-credit

Englanders website doesn't list efficiency. Is my 13NC compliant???.................not that I really care if it is, but on the other hand, not sending more $$$$ to the "Congress Gone Crazy" and "President Gone Crazy", is a good thing IMHO!!

dorkweed said:

Englanders website doesn't list efficiency. Is my 13NC compliant???.................not that I really care if it is, but on the other hand, not sending more $$$$ to the "Congress Gone Crazy" and "President Gone Crazy", is a good thing IMHO!!

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Aren't the efficiencies of the Englanders only tested to be "better than 63%," per the EPA?

BrotherBart said:

The certification for the tax credit is done at Low Heating Values. Here is the certification certificate for the ESW stoves for the last round of credits.

http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/2011_TaxCreditCertificate.pdf

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Thank you!

I think 99% of wood and pellet stoves on the market today claim to be 75% efficient, LHV, and eligible for the tax credit. Getting to use LHV helps, but manufacturers are also allowed to self-certify efficiency, and can use their sweet spot, and not an average. The result is that consumers really have no way of selecting a more efficient stove and this is particularly a problem with pellet stoves whose efficiencies range from under 50% to at least in the high 70s. We wrote a blog about this here, http://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/2012/10/epa-starts-listing-actual-efficiencies.html, urging consumers to try to get manufacturers to disclose their B415 efficiency numbers, and if they want a really efficient stove, to buy based on B415 efficiency calculations. RIght now, some of the only manufacturers who make this public are Blaze King and Woodstock Soapstone, both of whom make some of the very most efficient stoves on the market, along with Travis's Cape Cod - all of which are just above 80% efficiency, HHV. All this will hopefully be resolved in 2014 when the EPA finalizes the NSPS, but for now, its pretty frustrating - and most of the industry is really letting the consumer down. Sorry for the rant!

Talked to someone with inside information today. One of the hearth/patio associations had the language and sponsors for the woodstove tax credit ready to go as the fiscal cliff approached. My colleagues and I concluded that the tax bill was written long ago with all the Christmas tree goodies (tax breaks for woodstoves and biofuels) included. The only point of discussion at the end was the income level at which higher rates would be applied. Just think about it. Do really believe that Senate and House staffers wrote a 154 page tax bill overnight?

So, I pulled up this handy EPA certified woodstoves document I've referenced a few times beflore [1], and find my stove has no "tested efficiency", but only the default efficiency of 72% assigned to it. Then I look at the summary of the tax bill, and it says it applies to the installation of stoves with efficiency of 75% or greater. Hmmm...

Funny thing is... with the exception of two stoves from Travis, one stove from Woodstock, and a half dozen from Blaze King, there are no wood stoves on this list with tested efficiency of 75% or more.

[1] - http://www.epa.gov/oecaerth/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf

edit: Crap... just found this: "A taxpayer may claim a credit... only if each of the following requirements is satisfied: The original use of the item commences with the taxpayer." I guess a rebuilt stove is still a used stove, by this standard. I don't qualify... but maybe this question is still useful for someone else.

Joful said:

So, I pulled up this handy EPA certified woodstoves document I've referenced a few times beflore [1], and find my stove has no "tested efficiency", but only the default efficiency of 72% assigned to it. Then I look at the summary of the tax bill, and it says it applies to the installation of stoves with efficiency of 75% or greater. Hmmm...

Funny thing is... with the exception of two stoves from Travis, one stove from Woodstock, and a half dozen from Blaze King, there are no wood stoves on this list with tested efficiency of 75% or more.

[1] - http://www.epa.gov/oecaerth/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf

edit: Crap... just found this: "A taxpayer may claim a credit... only if each of the following requirements is satisfied: The original use of the item commences with the taxpayer." I guess a rebuilt stove is still a used stove, by this standard. I don't qualify... but maybe this question is still useful for someone else.

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I did taxes for 21 years.....do you think anyone from the IRS would know which stove and what efficiency rating your stove has? Bottom line...claim it and you will be fine.

Don Williams said:

I did taxes for 21 years.....do you think anyone from the IRS would know which stove and what efficiency rating your stove has? Bottom line...claim it and you will be fine.

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You're likely correct, but it's hardly worth the potential trouble for $300. If I can make it legal, I claim it... otherwise I forfeit.

On the other hand...30% tax bracket...pay back the $100 if caught...say I am sorry and did not know better...unless you are self employed and claiming lots and lots of crazy entertainment expenses and personal vehicle expenses (the most common areas causing an audit for the average guy) the chances of an audit .001%

Don Williams said:

On the other hand...30% tax bracket...pay back the $100 if caught...say I am sorry and did not know better...unless you are self employed and claiming lots and lots of crazy entertainment expenses and personal vehicle expenses (the most common areas causing an audit for the average guy) the chances of an audit .001%

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oops...actually it is a credit, not a deduction so that is $300 in your pocket! even more worth it

BrotherBart said:

I am gonna just pass on the $64 credit for the 30-NC I bought last Spring. That will ease some of your pain.

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What? I can get a credit for my NC-30 that I bought last year????!!

Cool beans. Looks like the credit is extended to the end of 2013. 10% of the device, up to $500 clams total credit ($5,000 installed device costs).