Can pressure sense time be extended on Breckwell P23?

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J

Joerg

Member
Jan 12, 2013
12
Folks,

Today it happened again but because it's friggin' cold I can't fix it just yet. Once or twice per season the P23 clicks itself off after a few seconds. If I start it 2-3 times in a row without letting the combustion blower trundle out too much I can usually get it going. The "fix" is this: I unplug the little hose at the pressure switch, connect some other hose to it, blow through it, push it back on. I guess that moves the soot around a bit where it connects at the smoke path. Unfortunately the connector to the smoke path is at a right angle which isn't a great design. The vent goes up two stories and that doesn't help a fast negative pressure build-up either. But the main problem seems to be that Breckwell set the wait time before time-out too short in the controller, only very few seconds.

Is there a trick to extend that wait time on the controller board? Preferably without writing new software for it :)

Other question: Did anyone find T-connector and hose that can be used to make a clean-out port? The P23 we have is an insert and getting that hose off usually comes with some contortion and the occasional skin scrapes. And there will be a day when the screws for the front panel wear out their holes if I keep doing this for too many times.

Regards,

Joerg
 
Joerg said:
Folks,

Today it happened again but because it's friggin' cold I can't fix it just yet. Once or twice per season the P23 clicks itself off after a few seconds. If I start it 2-3 times in a row without letting the combustion blower trundle out too much I can usually get it going. The "fix" is this: I unplug the little hose at the pressure switch, connect some other hose to it, blow through it, push it back on. I guess that moves the soot around a bit where it connects at the smoke path. Unfortunately the connector to the smoke path is at a right angle which isn't a great design. The vent goes up two stories and that doesn't help a fast negative pressure build-up either. But the main problem seems to be that Breckwell set the wait time before time-out too short in the controller, only very few seconds.

Is there a trick to extend that wait time on the controller board? Preferably without writing new software for it :)

Other question: Did anyone find T-connector and hose that can be used to make a clean-out port? The P23 we have is an insert and getting that hose off usually comes with some contortion and the occasional skin scrapes. And there will be a day when the screws for the front panel wear out their holes if I keep doing this for too many times.

Regards,

Joerg
Click to expand...

Sounds like a cleaning issue and you can not easily get at what you need to clean. Before looking to alter what the stove is suppose to do I would clean it. If the vacum switch and line is clogged with ash then that means other areas need cleaning as well. IMO
 
mralias said:
Sounds like a cleaning issue and you can not easily get at what you need to clean. Before looking to alter what the stove is suppose to do I would clean it. If the vacum switch and line is clogged with ash then that means other areas need cleaning as well. IMO
Click to expand...

Yes, cleaning always fixes it and I thoroughly clean the stove after every season. We burn only 1/2 ton/season because the wood stove upstairs is the main heater. But having to do this in mid-season is a pain. It happens out of the blue. If I could make at least a port to blow into then I could get it going again for the rest of the season any time this happens. It can happen after almost all 25 bags are through or after bag #10, one never knows.

Regards,

Joerg
 
Joerg said:
Yes, cleaning always fixes it and I thoroughly clean the stove after every season. We burn only 1/2 ton/season because the wood stove upstairs is the main heater. But having to do this in mid-season is a pain. It happens out of the blue. If I could make at least a port to blow into then I could get it going again for the rest of the season any time this happens. It can happen after almost all 25 bags are through or after bag #10, one never knows.

Regards,

Joerg
Click to expand...

Can you please describe your venting set up. How many 90's and 45's. Do you have a T, 3" or 4" and the length of each.
 
From memory back when watching the installers: No T's or elbows (which unfortunately means no cleanout), about 7-8ft of 3" stainless, then continues up another 15ft or so with 4" stainless. All inside a masonry chimney. Except for the first gentle bend it's all strictly vertical.

Cleaning it out requires taking the motor unit of the combustion blower out, which also means a new gasket every time. I try to be pretty meticulous when cleaning the stove, made myself little tools to get into nooks and crannies, bought an ash vacuum right away, and all that.
 
Joerg said:
From memory back when watching the installers: No T's or elbows (which unfortunately means no cleanout), about 7-8ft of 3" stainless, then continues up another 15ft or so with 4" stainless. All inside a masonry chimney. Except for the first gentle bend it's all strictly vertical.

Cleaning it out requires taking the motor unit of the combustion blower out, which also means a new gasket every time. I try to be pretty meticulous when cleaning the stove, made myself little tools to get into nooks and crannies, bought an ash vacuum right away, and all that.
Click to expand...

Based on your numbers you are only looking at 11 EVL which is fine for even 3". I wonder if you could make something like posted below work for an easy clean out. Pics of your venting would help also.
 

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I have a P23 that did a similar thing. Along with cleaning behind the firewall areas, I had to clean the air flow switch. Take the tube off and spray with canned air.
 
Lance1 said:
I have a P23 that did a similar thing. Along with cleaning behind the firewall areas, I had to clean the air flow switch. Take the tube off and spray with canned air.
Click to expand...

Do you think this is a design issue in that the ash is making its way into the vacuum switch regardless of how clean the stove is?
 
mralias said:
Do you think this is a design issue in that the ash is making its way into the vacuum switch regardless of how clean the stove is?
Click to expand...

My P23 was about 12 years old when I cleaned the vacuum switch and I haven't done it since. You could put an inline filter in, but if it malfunctions every decade or so it seems redundant to add.
 
Lance1 said:
My P23 was about 12 years old when I cleaned the vacuum switch and I haven't done it since. You could put an inline filter in, but if it malfunctions every decade or so it seems redundant to add.
Click to expand...

So much for that theory.
 
Mralias, I thought about putting in a clean-out tee but the installers jammed so much RTV in there that it's impossible to get the fitting off the blower connection. The problem with the length is that the stove only waits a couple of seconds or so until its computer decides to call it quits if it hasn't seen negative pressure by then. I work a bit in hydraulics and electronics and that is not a lot of time to reliably detect a pressure change. It takes a while for such a fairly small blower to get that large stack of cold air moving.

Lance, this stove has IMO many design issues. The first one was that it would stop for lack of POF many times. So I pulled it out and found they had the POF thermodisc on the back of the thick firebox wall. Made no sense at all. So I contacted Breckwell that I thought it should be on the combustion blower shroud which heats up much faster. Sure enough, afterwards they sent out a notice to put it exactly where I said it should be. And I am an electrical engineer, not a stove designer :)

The pressure sensor hose can get clogged and blowing it out does help. But with an insert that is a pain. The tap-off should not have been done at a right angle because that can accumulate soot at the little opening. But they did. And beats me why the computer was programmed to only very few seconds for negative pressure detection. That just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, I guess my only option is to either live with this or build some sort of electronic hack that stretches the detection time during start-up to 10sec or so. In a way that it won't compromise safety.
 
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