Replacing a Scan 61 - Thoughts on New Stoves

kingquad · Aug 30, 2012

SBlackstone said:
So, with that said, I have decided to forgo the Scan 61 and go the way of a new one (I have no choice and safe a few $$$, I will have to purchase before end of Sept to recoup a few bucks on the rebates going on.

I need some hearty advice (covering 2300 / 2500 sq ft (loft) of all one flat floor with an open space design....PE (The summit - model B 99000 btu) or quadra-fire (4300, 5700) Lennox Grandview, Jotul F50 (do not really care for the top load- looks to busy) or anything else.

PE seams to be have good rep, pricing for the summit( however can not understand why it is only 50 to 100 $ difference in price vs the all Black fusion)

Give it to me guys, winter is fast approaching this year in NE

Thanks,

Sam

Of the stoves listed, I'd go with the PE

pen · Aug 30, 2012

Glad to hear you added more pipe. Remember, if that sucker sticks up 5feet, you need a support jack on it.

The 500 degree temp you saw was good, but in moderate weather (above 25-30 degrees F) you aren't going to see the full potential of the stove. There is still a big difference in the BTU output of a 500 degree stove versus a 600-650 degree stove top measurement.

I too have that general meter, my wood is seasoned for at least 2 years, and I have yet to get a measurement below the upper teens. I'm not doubting what you have seen, just want to make certain that you have wiggled and giggled and made sure those prongs are buried parallel to the grain in a fresh split face for an accurate measurement.

As far as discussing a new stove, considering you now have a more legitimate chimney, I'd suggest starting a new thread with a more specific title to what you are hoping to accomplish now to get the best response from folks.

pen

jophysx · Aug 30, 2012

SBlackstone said:
Gents,
. . . Also purchased 2 new meters which was recommenred by you guys. I purchased the General (Model #: MMD4E) first and was quite surprised at the % it gave out on most of my wood (7 - 12%) - Even most of the logs I had in the back for about 3 months ( tree cut and delivered same time) before splitting two weeks ago were coming in below 20%. So I also purchased the harbor freight model (Item#67143). Give Or Take It Is About 2/3 % Difference In Measurement.

Did you re-split the wood and take your moisture reading from the heart of the freshly exposed wood? 7-12% sounds too good to be true. The exterior layer of a split that's been sitting out in the sun all summer might get down to that level, but that's no indicator of the overall moisture level. It takes multiple years in a pretty dry climate to get wood down to the 7-12% range. I'd continue your experiment a little more until you get your existing stove running right, or I am afraid you might be fighting the same battles on the next one.

-Jim

DexterDay · Aug 30, 2012

[email protected] said:
Did you re-split the wood and take your moisture reading from the heart of the freshly exposed wood? 7-12% sounds too good to be true. The exterior layer of a split that's been sitting out in the sun all summer might get down to that level, but that's no indicator of the overall moisture level. It takes multiple years in a pretty dry climate to get wood down to the 7-12% range. I'd continue your experiment a little more until you get your existing stove running right, or I am afraid you might be fighting the same battles on the next one.

-Jim

Not doubting either.... But for a man buying wood, my 2 yr wood, thats cut and split by me, isnt that low.

A Piece of Wood (A Split) must be freshly split in half and the prongs "Buried" into the fresh face of the wood..

7% sounds like the outisde of a split when sitting for a couple years...

Hell, just to check your General, lay the prings on your hand (not super sweaty). Are you getting somewhere in the 30%-40% range??

Wet wood and poor draft can make a good stove seem like a piece of $#it.

Best to check everything before spending thousands only to have the same problem with a new stove. Poor draft amd wet wood hurt performance. Best to buy the wopd you want for Next Year, right now. This yrs wood should be 2-3 yrs old. IMO

begreen · Aug 30, 2012

Did you resplit the logs and test on a freshly exposed face of wood? That's the best way to test for moisture.

The Summit is a great heater. There is also a Jotul F55 without the top loader.

REDTAIL · Sep 24, 2012

Hi Sam,

I have a SCAN 60, which is basically the same stove.

To see if it's a draft problem, clean all the ash out of the firebox, open the shaker-grate to 1/2 way open and leave it
there for the entire duration of your burn day; Clean out the ash drawer (a full ash drawer will block the airflow);
Build your fire; after a few minutes, pull the ash drawer out about 1 inch; that lets the air in; control your
airflow in this way; the drawer is made longer than it needs to be and will still catch all the ash falling through
your shaker-grate.

Now, if the fire, at this point is blow-torching (like a pellet stove), then you've got a proper draft. If it's not and it's
just looking like a fireplace fire with no blow-torch effect then it's the draft and you need to work on extending
your stove pipe or (perhaps clenaing?) something else in the flu area.

Clean the firebox every day, completely (don't leave any ash, that technique does not apply to this stove) and the
ash drawer before burning each day.

Once your house is up to temperature, you can close the ash drawer and that will allow a
long, slow burn and reduce the stove's heat output and keep the house nice and cozy. I use a poker to adjust
the ash drawer so I don't have to put any gloves on.

If your firewood is starting fine and not sizzling or hissing then it's probably dry. We have warm summers here in CA
and our firewood cures in only a month or two. I process at least 6 cords a year and never need to let it sit out a full year...
Your area may be different though... You don't need a moisture meter to tell if you have dry wood...

begreen · Sep 24, 2012

To see if it's a draft problem, clean all the ash out of the firebox, open the shaker-grate to 1/2 way open and leave it
there for the entire duration of your burn day; Clean out the ash drawer (a full ash drawer will block the airflow);
Build your fire; after a few minutes, pull the ash drawer out about 1 inch; that lets the air in; control your
airflow in this way; the drawer is made longer than it needs to be and will still catch all the ash falling through
your shaker-grate.

I would not do this except as a 1-2 minute test. Running the stove like this will turn it into a forge, likely damaging both the grate and the surrounding base. Most certainly if that happens the warranty will be void. You should only operate the stove with the ash grate handle pushed all the way in and the ash pan door closed. If draft is poor address the problem, not the symptoms.

REDTAIL · Feb 22, 2013

begreen said:
I would not do this except as a 1-2 minute test. Running the stove like this will turn it into a forge, likely damaging both the grate and the surrounding base. Most certainly if that happens the warranty will be void. You should only operate the stove with the ash grate handle pushed all the way in and the ash pan door closed. If draft is poor address the problem, not the symptoms.

The shaker grate isn't covered in the SCAN 60/61 warranty, unless it's somehow damaged right when you buy the stove. Well, good luck to the
folks who take your advice and only operate the stove with the ash grate handle pushed all the way in and the ash door closed. I've had my
SCAN 60 for 3 years now and you need to let air in the way I described above, to get it up-to-speed. Then, after your house is up to temperature,
close it down and burn low for awhile until you need more heat, then open it up as I described in my post above. My test above is valid. If you
open it up the way I described above, and it doesn't blow-torch for you, then you really do have a draft problem and you need to start looking at
your pipe, and type of installation. If it does blow-torch for you, then your draft is probably fine.

Oh, one other very important thing that I forgot to mention in my post above; You need to keep the damper-lever (the sliding, horizontal lever in the front, just above the door) all the way open, which is all the way to the right. If this is closed down, it will block the smoke and fumes from exiting out of the firebox and up the chimney. That actually could be issue here, if it's not fully open. Even half-way closed, it can block too much of the escaping smoke and fumes.

jeromehdmc · Feb 22, 2013

The only time I have the handle that allows air to come up through the ash grate open is during start up. When the fire is going good I close it all the way.
Once things are going you should never need to open it up again. The damper-lever you are talking about is for the primary air. Leave it all the way open, fully to the right, until the stove gets up to temp. Once there start dialing it back so you get air through the secondary tubes. Right now it's 3/4 closed and I have great secondaries and little to no flame on the logs themselves. When I get it going good I'll close the primary air all the way off and the front burn tube looks like it has jets of flame coming out of it. They'll shoot out far enough to hit the glass.

REDTAIL · Feb 22, 2013

jeromehdmc said:
The only time I have the handle that allows air to come up through the ash grate open is during start up. When the fire is going good I close it all the way.
Once things are going you should never need to open it up again. The damper-lever you are talking about is for the primary air. Leave it all the way open, fully to the right, until the stove gets up to temp. Once there start dialing it back so you get air through the secondary tubes. Right now it's 3/4 closed and I have great secondaries and little to no flame on the logs themselves. When I get it going good I'll close the primary air all the way off and the front burn tube looks like it has jets of flame coming out of it. They'll shoot out far enough to hit the glass.

I'm guessing that you have a different stove. Maybe a SCAN Anderson 10? The 60 only has one air tube. It appears that it works differently
than yours. On the SCAN 60 it's best to leave the shaker grate open half-way and not try to fiddle with it for the rest of the day. The way they designed the pull-handle that controls the open and close of the shaker-grate is not very good. You have to open the stove door to get at the handle, and then
you have to use gloves because the knob gets very hot; additionally, when there's wood in the firebox, it weighs down the grate and it's very difficult to close the shaker grate. Best to leave it half-way open and control the airflow with the drawer, which has been designed especially long so that it can be pulled out up to an inch and still catch all the ash that drops through the grate. What you're calling the "primary-air" is basically useless on the SCAN 60. It doesn't work the way you describe on your stove model.

jotulguy · Feb 22, 2013

REDTAIL said:
Hi Sam,

I have a SCAN 60, which is basically the same stove.

To see if it's a draft problem, clean all the ash out of the firebox, open the shaker-grate to 1/2 way open and leave it
there for the entire duration of your burn day; Clean out the ash drawer (a full ash drawer will block the airflow);
Build your fire; after a few minutes, pull the ash drawer out about 1 inch; that lets the air in; control your
airflow in this way; the drawer is made longer than it needs to be and will still catch all the ash falling through
your shaker-grate.

Now, if the fire, at this point is blow-torching (like a pellet stove), then you've got a proper draft. If it's not and it's
just looking like a fireplace fire with no blow-torch effect then it's the draft and you need to work on extending
your stove pipe or (perhaps clenaing?) something else in the flu area.

Clean the firebox every day, completely (don't leave any ash, that technique does not apply to this stove) and the
ash drawer before burning each day.

Once your house is up to temperature, you can close the ash drawer and that will allow a
long, slow burn and reduce the stove's heat output and keep the house nice and cozy. I use a poker to adjust
the ash drawer so I don't have to put any gloves on.

If your firewood is starting fine and not sizzling or hissing then it's probably dry. We have warm summers here in CA
and our firewood cures in only a month or two. I process at least 6 cords a year and never need to let it sit out a full year...
Your area may be different though... You don't need a moisture meter to tell if you have dry wood...

Makes total sense to me now why you were going through so many skamol panels. Your true issue if that is the temps you are getting is either your wood or draft.

REDTAIL · Feb 22, 2013

jotulguy said:
Makes total sense to me now why you were going through so many skamol panels. Your true issue if that is the temps you are getting is either your wood or draft.

Are you talking about me going through Skamol panels?

jeromehdmc · Feb 22, 2013

Our stoves aren't that different, I only have one tube at the front but there is another manifold at the back drilled for secondary air.
It sounds like you don't have strong enough draw because the basic operation is the same even though we have different models.
The manual even says not to operate with the grate open. If you have to open the door to adjust something then it probably isn't
meant to be messed with when you are running the stove.

jotulguy · Feb 22, 2013

REDTAIL said:
Are you talking about me going through Skamol panels?

Yes redtail I was. Maybe I was mistaken but I thought you were unhappy about how fast you were going through the panels. Burning the stove wide open and with the ash draw ajar is the reason they failed so fast.

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Replacing a Scan 61 - Thoughts on New Stoves

kingquad

Minister of Fire

pen

There are some who call me...mod.

jophysx

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DexterDay

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begreen

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REDTAIL

New Member

begreen

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REDTAIL

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jeromehdmc

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REDTAIL

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jotulguy

Feeling the Heat

REDTAIL

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jeromehdmc

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