pellet stove issues ecoteck
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Lake Girl
Moderator
La
lakegirl. Do you have the PDF for ecoteck. I can find exact specs for venting.
Bioburner
Moderator
I ran a AES countryside for almost a decade. Daily rack the tube cleaner, do a high fire to help cleanout the rear exchanger blah, blah, blah. Weekly one hour cleaning with venting or your effeciency took a dump and if the wind did a major change would screw your draft and out goes the fire. Can't listen to the tv in the same room for all the clunking and clanging. Minor work for a very high thermal effeciency, easy start, and oh so quiet stove compared to the countryside.
One banning not enough for ya eh Sweets?
Lake Girl
Moderator
The manual is free online in PDF form. Just search Ecoteck Monica manual. Almost every new stove has an online manual for free.
That was my guess too? Anyways to check the IP?
Sad......
That was my guess too? Anyways to check the IP?
Sad......
Lake Girl
Moderator
Dexter, went looking and have before. Only sites I found wanted $20 for the owners manual that doesn't have info on accessing certain set-up areas. It seems like there may not have been a lot of education for the dealers on these stoves.
Bioburner
Moderator
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Sorry to get back into this late, but I have been busy getting things ready for a storm and possible power outage and got waylaid a bit..
The description of your flame being drawn towards the glass usually indicates that the exhaust air path is blocked more to the rear and sides of the heat exchanger than the front part of the stove.
This is likely the result of not getting the rear side portion cleaned as well as the front, what Bioburner was saying about a small caliber bore brush has a lot of merit for cleaning the exchanger but also consider a 1" putty knife. This can be inserted in very narrow spaces and used as a scrapper using its sides as well as its front end. It is common for new stove owners to not get all of the ash deposits in the far corners of the air path and in doing a deep clean it is very important that it all gets cleaned.
I've seen some folks use various metal polishing or fine sanding cloths by inserting it between the exchanger's tubes, etc.. and buffing the tubes and things clean, when doing anything like this you want to make certain that the dust and ash released is drawn out of the stove and that you wear a protective mask. Dexter might be able to provide a picture or better description of this process as I believe he uses this on his Quadrafire CB1200.
The goal with doing any cleaning of the stove is to get the combustion air path as clean as possible. If anything was missed any time around the next cleaning will come sooner than the last and eventually it will snowball.
Lake Girl any information from an operational unit is worth its weight in gold for others without the information. I usually operate on general principles as I've found it to be a very good way to isolate things, however it only works when the parts of the stove are working as they are supposed to.
Myers, I hope you are getting some usable information and aren't overwhelmed.
BrotherBart and BeGreen thank you for your assistance.
The description of your flame being drawn towards the glass usually indicates that the exhaust air path is blocked more to the rear and sides of the heat exchanger than the front part of the stove.
This is likely the result of not getting the rear side portion cleaned as well as the front, what Bioburner was saying about a small caliber bore brush has a lot of merit for cleaning the exchanger but also consider a 1" putty knife. This can be inserted in very narrow spaces and used as a scrapper using its sides as well as its front end. It is common for new stove owners to not get all of the ash deposits in the far corners of the air path and in doing a deep clean it is very important that it all gets cleaned.
I've seen some folks use various metal polishing or fine sanding cloths by inserting it between the exchanger's tubes, etc.. and buffing the tubes and things clean, when doing anything like this you want to make certain that the dust and ash released is drawn out of the stove and that you wear a protective mask. Dexter might be able to provide a picture or better description of this process as I believe he uses this on his Quadrafire CB1200.
The goal with doing any cleaning of the stove is to get the combustion air path as clean as possible. If anything was missed any time around the next cleaning will come sooner than the last and eventually it will snowball.
Lake Girl any information from an operational unit is worth its weight in gold for others without the information. I usually operate on general principles as I've found it to be a very good way to isolate things, however it only works when the parts of the stove are working as they are supposed to.
Myers, I hope you are getting some usable information and aren't overwhelmed.
BrotherBart and BeGreen thank you for your assistance.
Lake Girl
Moderator
Not at cross purposes here - cleaning the internal pathways is key. I have set up an "adapter" for my stove vac for when I pull my inspection ports - a length of old 1/2" garden hose about 30" long tuck taped to the vacuum adapter (of course diameters do not agree which is where tuck tape comes in - not pretty but it works). You can run the hose up the body from each inspection port and side to side between the two inspection ports. If you just vacuum at the inspection ports, you miss lots of crud
Still have to find a good brush... Unfortunately, this doesn't work in the heat exchanger area hence the putty knife. Too much tear down on these stoves can leave you with a lot of stripped screws. Have to find a supply of better metric dimension screws/bolts for the long haul.However, maintenance cleaning aside, if original set-up does not take into account users particular exhaust set-up, may not be functioning at optimal efficiency, creating more ash and requiring more frequent cleaning.
The original manual I got from Northland Dist. didn't show schedule for cleaning, location of inspection ports, etc. There was another manual tucked inside that was slightly more informative but also has the following comment:
"The stove requires little maintenance if a quality pellet is used. Therefore it is difficult to establish how often the stove needs to be cleaned. The quality of the pellet and the combustion adjustment are crucial."
That's where the electronic fine tuning comes in... The "recipe" takes into account the exhaust set up. Pellet and draught also factor in (P6 and P7 held down simultaneously - pellet quality adjustment keys 1{decreases pellet load; 0 to -5} & 2 {increases pellet load; 0 to +5}; speed of exhaust blower adjustment 4 {decreases draught if flame is too low in firebox; 0 to -5} and 5 {harder pellet requiring more draught; 0 to +5}) Each adjustment accounts for 5% change of value.
Edit: the above keys are for inserts
Still P6 & P7 to enter but Pellet quality adjustments keys 4 & 5 (instead of 1 & 2); Draught adjustment keys 6 & 7 (instead of 4 & 5). I cautioned Myers to note the current "recipe" configuration before he changes so that he can at least get back to a known value. Dealers are supposed to do this but in our situation the dealer was in another country. The nearest dealer in Canada was in Perth, ON give or take 18 hours away... Urban Hearth who apparently no longer carries Ecoteck.
Anyone who needs the Ecoteck "Installers Manual", which has the access codes for changing the recipe (and other parameters), just Private Message ("Start a Conversation") me your email, and I can send it to you.
Every 3 to 5 bags of pellets, I clean my Ecoteck Elena as follows : takes about 10 minutes :
1) Remove Flame trap at top of firebox and vacumm around the heat exchanger tubes and the perimeter of the square opening just below the tubes. A "crevice" tool/nozzle on my ShopVac (with HEPA filter) works great. Move the scraper to the full out position to vaccum the rear edge of the square opening.
2) Use a soft 4 inch paint brush, gently brush off the Firex, use the vacuum nozzle to gather the dust. DO NOT scrape the Firex with the nozzle : it is fragile !
3) Replace the Flame-Trap
4) Vacuum the grate around the burnpot, then remove it.
5) Use a plastic spackle/putty knife and scrape the sides and bottom of the burn pot, then vacuum it, then remove it.
6) Vacuum the inside of burn-pot holder/receptacle.
7) Replace the burn pot
8) Replace the grate.
9) Pull out ashpan and vacuum it
10 Vacuum the bottom of the firebox, where the ashpan sits.
11) Replace the ashpan
12) Clean the glass with a wet (water) paper towel, dry it off with another (dry) paper towel. (NO WINDEX, and clean glass ONLY when it is cool to the touch)
Close it up !
I have never vacuumed my hopper : the Ecoteck auger does not seem to care about fines/dust.
About every ton of pellets, I vacuum out my flue.
At the end of the season (2 to 3 Tons) I take the side panels off, take the exhaust blower off, and open the two clean-out ports and vacuum everything out using a smaller diameter hose/tube, duct-taped into the hose nozzle of my ShopVac, to get into the clean-out ports and into the exhaust blower housing.
This cleaning routine works well for my Ecoteck, now on its second burn season, with about a total of 4 tons thru it. I have used medium quality pellets : Great American, PrestoLog/Lignetics (Lowes), Premium Pellet /Agri-recycle (Tractor Supply), and C&C Smith wood Pellets. I find my Ecoteck to be NOT fussy with the quality of pellets. They all burn about the same for me.
Neither the User Manual, or the Installer Manual states the max allowed flue EVL.
I have Outside Air connected, and my flue is 4 inch diameter pipe : stove to a 45, then 5 feet horizontal, then a termination cap. I have a CyberPower pure sinewave UPS, and a home-brew automatic auger kill so that the stove shuts down automatically if the power fails, ensuring no smoke back-up into my home.
Every 3 to 5 bags of pellets, I clean my Ecoteck Elena as follows : takes about 10 minutes :
1) Remove Flame trap at top of firebox and vacumm around the heat exchanger tubes and the perimeter of the square opening just below the tubes. A "crevice" tool/nozzle on my ShopVac (with HEPA filter) works great. Move the scraper to the full out position to vaccum the rear edge of the square opening.
2) Use a soft 4 inch paint brush, gently brush off the Firex, use the vacuum nozzle to gather the dust. DO NOT scrape the Firex with the nozzle : it is fragile !
3) Replace the Flame-Trap
4) Vacuum the grate around the burnpot, then remove it.
5) Use a plastic spackle/putty knife and scrape the sides and bottom of the burn pot, then vacuum it, then remove it.
6) Vacuum the inside of burn-pot holder/receptacle.
7) Replace the burn pot
8) Replace the grate.
9) Pull out ashpan and vacuum it
10 Vacuum the bottom of the firebox, where the ashpan sits.
11) Replace the ashpan
12) Clean the glass with a wet (water) paper towel, dry it off with another (dry) paper towel. (NO WINDEX, and clean glass ONLY when it is cool to the touch)
Close it up !
I have never vacuumed my hopper : the Ecoteck auger does not seem to care about fines/dust.
About every ton of pellets, I vacuum out my flue.
At the end of the season (2 to 3 Tons) I take the side panels off, take the exhaust blower off, and open the two clean-out ports and vacuum everything out using a smaller diameter hose/tube, duct-taped into the hose nozzle of my ShopVac, to get into the clean-out ports and into the exhaust blower housing.
This cleaning routine works well for my Ecoteck, now on its second burn season, with about a total of 4 tons thru it. I have used medium quality pellets : Great American, PrestoLog/Lignetics (Lowes), Premium Pellet /Agri-recycle (Tractor Supply), and C&C Smith wood Pellets. I find my Ecoteck to be NOT fussy with the quality of pellets. They all burn about the same for me.
Neither the User Manual, or the Installer Manual states the max allowed flue EVL.
I have Outside Air connected, and my flue is 4 inch diameter pipe : stove to a 45, then 5 feet horizontal, then a termination cap. I have a CyberPower pure sinewave UPS, and a home-brew automatic auger kill so that the stove shuts down automatically if the power fails, ensuring no smoke back-up into my home.
Lake Girl
Moderator
Pelleting in NJ is correct on EVL. On exhaust set up, user manual defaults to pipe manufacturers specs.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Lake Girl, you are correct on the recipe, every stove has to have the burn parameters matched to the exhaust system with hopefully some way to trim things for the exact fuel you are burning.
Most stove makers but not all publish a differential pressure gage reading at high burn to allow the exhaust system to be matched to the stove (some go so far as to publish the value for each firing rate) this is used to set the damper (the electronic counterpart would be the combustion blower speed).
Some burners can do the match up by eye but even here it is a lot quicker to have something to adjust to.
The kicker here is that some stoves have no means to do this at all.
The available on-line venting information leaves a lot to be desired, there is no information to factor altitude into determine when to go to 4" and the EVL equivalent they use makes little sense from the stand point of air flow restriction maybe something was lost in the translation.
The one thing that is certain without the manuals and a proper setup you'll have burn issues and those issues can make keeping the stove clean and running a major hassle.
I hope you take the time to remove the vacuum hose from the exhaust channel and give your stove a leaf blower treatment after having cleaned it, bet there is a bit more ash that comes out, even on my simple bucket of parts stove there is always some more that exits the vent when I use the leaf blower.
Most stove makers but not all publish a differential pressure gage reading at high burn to allow the exhaust system to be matched to the stove (some go so far as to publish the value for each firing rate) this is used to set the damper (the electronic counterpart would be the combustion blower speed).
Some burners can do the match up by eye but even here it is a lot quicker to have something to adjust to.
The kicker here is that some stoves have no means to do this at all.
The available on-line venting information leaves a lot to be desired, there is no information to factor altitude into determine when to go to 4" and the EVL equivalent they use makes little sense from the stand point of air flow restriction maybe something was lost in the translation.
The one thing that is certain without the manuals and a proper setup you'll have burn issues and those issues can make keeping the stove clean and running a major hassle.
I hope you take the time to remove the vacuum hose from the exhaust channel and give your stove a leaf blower treatment after having cleaned it, bet there is a bit more ash that comes out, even on my simple bucket of parts stove there is always some more that exits the vent when I use the leaf blower.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Yes the manual I read talks about a general length and allows the length to be augmented by a certain amount for each unused elbow it is set at 20' and the only elbows it talks about are 90 degree ones and it looks like it considers all lengths of venting to be equivalent which is not how most of the vent makers figure it. There was also no chart relating EVL and altitude and that is a classic problem because they do interact. Makes figuring things out a bit problematic. This is why I use the general rules.
Bioburner
Moderator
I've used a steel brush that I believe was a Harman Accentra Brush about 1 inch diameter by 5 inches long on a wound wire extention of about 16 inches or so to clean above the inspection ports. I seen plastic bristled brushes for cleaning milking equipment at the farm store that would be just as good. Picked up a Brinkman Grill cleaning doubleheaded brush that may be the ticket for cleaning the exchanger. Will really clean house on the Harman.
Attachments
Thanks for all the input. Pelleting in nj that sounds close to my routine except within a month the flame gets progressively worse. I end up taking firex panels out and cleaning behind that(carefully). Your exhaust sounds close to mine except yours is 4". I have the draft set on 3. I also know the dealer has recepe set for the ventin setup I have.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
His exhaust is a far cry from yours in terms exhaust restriction, they are not even close. His will also allow a much larger amount of ash to build up in it before it impacts the burn.
Do you have an OAK?
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Can you provide an altitude figure for your location?
I don't need to know where you are just how high above sea level you are.
Also what is the area behind your Firex panels made of?
I don't need to know where you are just how high above sea level you are.
Also what is the area behind your Firex panels made of?
It looks like around 400 altitude. The area behind panels is the exhaust channel after it leaves heat exchanger before it hits exhaust motor. The opening is not very large. I take the panels out because its quicker. There is also a cleanout that I believe gets you to the same area
Lake Girl
Moderator
Change out to 4" pipe would not be as big a loss as changing out the stove... Let us know how you make out[/quote]
Phil Do's fire.
Minister of Fire
Poor Sweets, look on the bright side, this planet is full of women and you can always get another dog
Bioburner
Moderator
Maybe have to start "Pellet Conservation Club" Will need to start one if the global warming does not help me out here soon. Only 23 for a high yesterday but had the sun.
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