Insert choices...why is it so hard!!!!! LOL

Xikar · Mar 14, 2013

Been looking into installing an insert now for the last few months. Read this forum thoroughly and it is filled with a ton a great information, feedback and recommendations! My home is 2,500 sq ft and I have two fireplaces, one on either side of the house both on exterior walls. I am looking to go with a minimum 3 cubic ft firebox stove and it came down to Regency, Jotul, Quadrafire, PE and Avalon for me. I have gone through process of elimination here and pretty much narrowed my choices down to the PE Summit and Avalon Olympic insert. So much great feedback and information on both! I have dealers of every brand within 20 minutes of me and have talked to them all. I am leaning towards the Avalon because the thing seems to be built like a tank but something in me likes the look of the Summit more. Any of you guys want to try to sway me one way or another???

Slow1 · Mar 14, 2013

You have two fireplaces eh? Ok - get one of each stove and then you can provide really good reviews once you get a season or two on both

Seriously - I'm more of a free-standing stove person, but my guess is that whichever you choose you can be happy with it and will get years of good service from them. In this case one question that comes to my mind though is who the seller is and their reputation (if each stove is sold by different shops).

If you have a spouse/partner/interested party in the house perhaps consult them on the 'looks' before final decision?

Heatsource · Mar 14, 2013

I sold my folks an Olympic a few years back, they love it!

DKranger22 · Mar 14, 2013

I don't think you can go wrong with either unit. The PE Summit is a big stove that puts out a lot of heat. It has a strong following here, and I am yet to see negative reviews on it.

The Avalaon Olympic is another good make. This is made by Travis Industries, the parent company of Avalon, Lopi and Fireplace Extrordinare. Once again, another strong following on the Hearth forums.

Speaking of Travis Industires, you might consider the Lopi Freedom. It is essentially the same exact stove as the Avalon Olympic, just a little different asthetics. Personally, I like the look of the Lopi Freedom a bit better, but the features and specs are almost identical (both have the bypass damper, 12 hour burn times (advertised), ~74,000 BTU's, etc.). The Avalon has a slightly larger firebox (3.1 vs 2.9), as the Freedom's firebox is tapered. If you have a smaller fireplace and space is tight, you might consider the Freedom if the measurements are a concern. If not, it's almost always better to get the biggest firebox possible, thus the edge goes to the Avalon. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

In the 3+ CF firebox, you might also take a look at the Osburn 2400 and Lennox Canyon C310. These two stoves, along with the Lopi Freedom and PE Summit were my 4 leading contenders. I had placed a deposit on the Freedom, then cancelled it... almost placed a deposit on the Osburn 2400.... backed out last minute as I was still undecided... and FINALLY (yesterday) settled on the Lennox C310. It's scheduled to be installed next Saturday, and I am very excited!

I really don't think you can go wrong with any of these units. They all offer large fireboxes, plenty of mass and heat output, and long potential burn times. For me, the Lennox won out due to dealer location and availability. Also, the Lennox was the most expensive stove of the bunch list-price wise, but the dealer ended up offering a quote less than that of the local Lopi and Osburn dealer! And my comfort level with the Lennox dealer was the highest, so I ended up placing the deposit yesterday. Everyone's tastes and needs are different, but it's nice knowing you can't really make a "bad" decision.

On paper, these 5 stoves look very similar. Here is a quick summary for reference:

PE Summit: 465 lbs, 20" max log size, 6" flue, 99,000 BTU, 3.0 CF firebox, 80.4% efficiency, 10 hour max burn time
Osburn 2400: 545 lbs, 21" max log size, 6" flue, 100,000 BTU, 3.2 CF firebox, 78% efficiency, 10 hour max burn time
Lopi Freedom: 455 lbs, 24" max log size, 6" flue, 73,300 BTU, 2.9 CF firebox, 75% efficiency, 12 hour max burn time
Avalon Olympic: 470 lbs, 24" max log size, 6" flue, 74,300 BTU's, 3.1 CF firebox, 75% efficiency, 12 hour max burn time
Lennox Canyon C310: 547 lbs, 22.5" max log size, 8" flue, 84,500 BTU's, 3.1 CF firebox, 78% efficiency, 12 hour max burn time

Note that advertised BTU's, burn times, and efficiencies are sketchy at best (trying to duplicate these results consistently in "real world application" is not realistic).

In the end, much of your decision will likely come down to personal preference and supporting dealer location/availability, as was the case for me. Good luck in your decision! And be sure to take advantage of the $300 2013 tax credit!

Stax · Mar 14, 2013

Skip the the flush mount. I have one. It relies solely on convective heat. Go with a cast stove that sits out on hearth a good 8" with a blower.

Xikar · Mar 14, 2013

DKranger22 said:
I don't think you can go wrong with either unit. The PE Summit is a big stove that puts out a lot of heat. It has a strong following here, and I am yet to see negative reviews on it.

The Avalaon Olympic is another good make. This is made by Travis Industries, the parent company of Avalon, Lopi and Fireplace Extrordinare. Once again, another strong following on the Hearth forums.

Speaking of Travis Industires, you might consider the Lopi Freedom. It is essentially the same exact stove as the Avalon Olympic, just a little different asthetics. Personally, I like the look of the Lopi Freedom a bit better, but the features and specs are almost identical (both have the bypass damper, 12 hour burn times (advertised), ~74,000 BTU's, etc.). The Avalon has a slightly larger firebox (3.1 vs 2.9), as the Freedom's firebox is tapered. If you have a smaller fireplace and space is tight, you might consider the Freedom if the measurements are a concern. If not, it's almost always better to get the biggest firebox possible, thus the edge goes to the Avalon. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

In the 3+ CF firebox, you might also take a look at the Osburn 2400 and Lennox Canyon C310. These two stoves, along with the Lopi Freedom and PE Summit were my 4 leading contenders. I had placed a deposit on the Freedom, then cancelled it... almost placed a deposit on the Osburn 2400.... backed out last minute as I was still undecided... and FINALLY (yesterday) settled on the Lennox C310. It's scheduled to be installed next Saturday, and I am very excited!

I really don't think you can go wrong with any of these units. They all offer large fireboxes, plenty of mass and heat output, and long potential burn times. For me, the Lennox won out due to dealer location and availability. Also, the Lennox was the most expensive stove of the bunch list-price wise, but the dealer ended up offering a quote less than that of the local Lopi and Osburn dealer! And my comfort level with the Lennox dealer was the highest, so I ended up placing the deposit yesterday. Everyone's tastes and needs are different, but it's nice knowing you can't really make a "bad" decision.

On paper, these 5 stoves look very similar. Here is a quick summary for reference:

PE Summit: 465 lbs, 20" max log size, 6" flue, 99,000 BTU, 3.0 CF firebox, 80.4% efficiency, 10 hour max burn time
Osburn 2400: 545 lbs, 21" max log size, 6" flue, 100,000 BTU, 3.2 CF firebox, 78% efficiency, 10 hour max burn time
Lopi Freedom: 455 lbs, 24" max log size, 6" flue, 73,300 BTU, 2.9 CF firebox, 75% efficiency, 12 hour max burn time
Avalon Olympic: 470 lbs, 24" max log size, 6" flue, 74,300 BTU's, 3.1 CF firebox, 75% efficiency, 12 hour max burn time
Lennox Canyon C310: 547 lbs, 22.5" max log size, 8" flue, 84,500 BTU's, 3.1 CF firebox, 78% efficiency, 12 hour max burn time

Note that advertised BTU's, burn times, and efficiencies are sketchy at best (trying to duplicate these results consistently in "real world application" is not realistic).

In the end, much of your decision will likely come down to personal preference and supporting dealer location/availability, as was the case for me. Good luck in your decision! And be sure to take advantage of the $300 2013 tax credit!

I was looking at that same Lennox unit! I love the looks of it but couldn't find much in the way of reviews or information on it. Out of all of them I think it has the best overall look to it. I get caught up in silly details such as the fact that the fire brick in the PE and Regency stoves seemed like pumice stones where as the Avalon were a true firebrick. Not sure what difference, if any, it makes but I'm funny like that. I did look at the Osburn as well but wasn't crazy about the look of it. The Lopi Freedom was a contender for a minute too. There are just so many... I may do what Slow1 mentioned and put the PE in one fireplace and the Avalon in the other! LOL.

DKranger22 · Mar 15, 2013

I was a little detoured that I could not find more reviews on the Lennox also. However, the few that I did find were very positive. Also, my dealers (3 of them) all claimed that the Lennox was the best brand that they carried, and most could get me any stove I wanted. None of them had the C310 on their floor, so it wasn't as if they were trying to push "old" inventory to make a sale. I also felt that the Lennox looked the best of the bunch. I'm typically a function over form type person, but this thing is going to be a permanent centerpiece in my living room, so I want it to look as good as it performs. Time will tell on that. Lastly, all of the stoves sit out on the hearth and offer some cooktop surface. I can't confirm this for sure, but it appears to me that the Lennox sits out on the hearth the furthest, which will offer the bet cooktop and also should provide more radiant heat. Overall, I am happy in my choice, and can't wait to get this thing installed!

Ashful · Mar 15, 2013

Sounds like my setup, with a fireplace at each end of the house. I put a Jotul Firelight freestanding stove in each. Why are you only considering inserts? What are your fireplace dimensions?

Xikar · Mar 15, 2013

Joful said:
Sounds like my setup, with a fireplace at each end of the house. I put a Jotul Firelight freestanding stove in each. Why are you only considering inserts? What are your fireplace dimensions?

The insert is to keep the wife happy...LOL. She doesn't like the idea of a freestanding stove with the kids running around and she doesn't want to have to gate the thing. As for the dimensions, I have them all at home, I can grab them and post that info later on. I will take some pics as well.

jcjohnston · Mar 15, 2013

Lopi Freedom Bay owner here for 5 seasons now, heating 2300 sqft colonial, love it. Search for my posts here on it.

4barrel · Mar 15, 2013

Xikar, I would go with the Summit. I have had a olympic for about 5 years now. Nice stove, but I cannot get longer than a 4 hour burn out of it. I have read other people say the same thing with they're olympics and lopi equivalents. I am looking to upgrade to a cat myself.

DKranger22 · Mar 15, 2013

4barrel said:
Xikar, I would go with the Summit. I have had a olympic for about 5 years now. Nice stove, but I cannot get longer than a 4 hour burn out of it. I have read other people say the same thing with they're olympics and lopi equivalents. I am looking to upgrade to a cat myself.

I do not think your experience is typical. My cousin burns his Lopi Freedom (essentially the same stove as the Olympic) 24-7 from late fall to early spring, and I can assure you that he gets longer than 4-hour burn times. I suspect that you have some other issue (i.e. wet wood, chimney height, draft-related, etc.). I do think that the 12-hour "advertised" burn times are a stretch, but you should easily be able get 6-8 hours with enough hot coals to relight.

dave_376 · Mar 15, 2013

DKranger22 said:
I do not think your experience is typical. My cousin burns his Lopi Freedom (essentially the same stove as the Olympic) 24-7 from late fall to early spring, and I can assure you that he gets longer than 4-hour burn times. I suspect that you have some other issue (i.e. wet wood, chimney height, draft-related, etc.). I do think that the 12-hour "advertised" burn times are a stretch, but you should easily be able get 6-8 hours with enough hot coals to relight.

I agree your experience is NOT normal. I can get 6 hours out of Sassafrass and 10+ out of good hardwood..... Having said that if I had to choose a new insert it would be between a BK Princess PE Summit or the Osburn. I like the warranty given with the Osburn.

Dix · Mar 15, 2013

Xikar said:
Been looking into installing an insert now for the last few months. Read this forum thoroughly and it is filled with a ton a great information, feedback and recommendations! My home is 2,500 sq ft and I have two fireplaces, one on either side of the house both on exterior walls. I am looking to go with a minimum 3 cubic ft firebox stove and it came down to Regency, Jotul, Quadrafire, PE and Avalon for me. I have gone through process of elimination here and pretty much narrowed my choices down to the PE Summit and Avalon Olympic insert. So much great feedback and information on both! I have dealers of every brand within 20 minutes of me and have talked to them all. I am leaning towards the Avalon because the thing seems to be built like a tank but something in me likes the look of the Summit more. Any of you guys want to try to sway me one way or another???

Well as one of the "gals", I'll chime in, and welcome to the forums !

I love my PE, love it, love it. Especially the fact that it extends from the hearth. It will heat the house in this climate (Long Island) with no power. We might hover at 68F, but we're better off than those with no electricity when we lose it.

If the FP had been bigger, I'd have gone with the Summit.

Xikar · Mar 16, 2013

4barrel said:
Xikar, I would go with the Summit. I have had a olympic for about 5 years now. Nice stove, but I cannot get longer than a 4 hour burn out of it. I have read other people say the same thing with they're olympics and lopi equivalents. I am looking to upgrade to a cat myself.

Thanks for the recommendation !!!

I wonder what would cause your burn times to become shorter over time though? What type of wood you burning?

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
Well as one of the "gals", I'll chime in, and welcome to the forums !

I love my PE, love it, love it. Especially the fact that it extends from the hearth. It will heat the house in this climate (Long Island) with no power. We might hover at 68F, but we're better off than those with no electricity when we lose it.

If the FP had been bigger, I'd have gone with the Summit.

My wife and I both prefer the look of the Summit over the Olympic. Olympic is very boxy looking and she isn't crazy about the wooden handles and the flat black surround. At least with the Summit we have the option to get the embossed surround to give it a bit more character. Comparing them side by side for some reason the Olympic just seems to be built more rugged. Not sure if there is any difference, but I also noticed the PE stoves use pumice fire brick where as the Avalon had real brick that I would imagine to have a way longer lifespan. I was also a bit swayed after reading the PE crack thread !!!

! Is this still a common thing?

My wife was really liking the Quadra-fire Grand Voyager as well as the Jotul C550 for overall appearance but I don't want to have to rely 100% on the blower. I assume the units that stick out would create more radiant heat then a flush mounted.

DKranger22 · Mar 16, 2013

You are correct. The more stove you have sticking out onto your hearth, the more radiant heat you will have. I absolutely had to have this, as I wanted the cooktop surface. Mainly for using a kettle to add humidity to the dry, winter air, but also for emergencies. I was without power for almost two weeks when the remnants of hurricane Sandy decided to stop by.

Ashful · Mar 16, 2013

Xikar said:
The insert is to keep the wife happy...LOL. She doesn't like the idea of a freestanding stove with the kids running around and she doesn't want to have to gate the thing. As for the dimensions, I have them all at home, I can grab them and post that info later on. I will take some pics as well.

All kids are different, but we've had ours since before our son turned two, and he's always known to stay clear of the stove(s). It's really a non-issue for us... the only person who's ever burned themselves on our stove is me, while loading it.

Treacherous · Mar 16, 2013

Mix in a few of the energy logs that are in my signature and you will get 12 hours of useable heat. I'm using Douglas Fir too.

DKranger22 said:
I do think that the 12-hour "advertised" burn times are a stretch, but you should easily be able get 6-8 hours with enough hot coals to relight.

weatherguy · Mar 16, 2013

Cant go wrong with any listed but Ive always been partial to the PE Summit. I researched all the stoves listed in this thread and I always came back to the Summit, course I got a BK but that was because I got a deal that couldnt be beat.

jcjohnston · Mar 19, 2013

My Lopi Freedom Bay runs all night every night without reloading, once I learned on here that dry wood makes this possible. First year I was 4 hours of usable heat, came to the web and searched for some answers and found this site. Got myself busy and got ahead on my wood prepping, and have slept all night every night since. As for 12 hour burns as advertised, sure I get those too, if the measurement is enough left in there to not need a supercedar to relight. Coals enough to easily relight from kindling, then I get 12 hours, but the stove temp would be 200 so I would not consider that usable heat.

HomeBruin · Mar 19, 2013

Almost went with the PE Alderlea but the Regency Hampton HI300 was a much better price. Love the looks of the unit, looks like a piece of furniture, plus very good view of fire. Firebricks are firebricks, lol. I used to have a VT Castings Aspen and noticed the difference you wrote about. It does not make a difference. They'll be ash coated in no time anyway.

Treacherous · Mar 22, 2013

Dry wood certainly is key. I try to stress this to family and friends. I never thought much about it back in my smoke dragon days.

jcjohnston said:
My Lopi Freedom Bay runs all night every night without reloading, once I learned on here that dry wood makes this possible. First year I was 4 hours of usable heat, came to the web and searched for some answers and found this site. Got myself busy and got ahead on my wood prepping, and have slept all night every night since. As for 12 hour burns as advertised, sure I get those too, if the measurement is enough left in there to not need a supercedar to relight. Coals enough to easily relight from kindling, then I get 12 hours, but the stove temp would be 200 so I would not consider that usable heat.

lopiliberty · Mar 22, 2013

I have the liberty which is the same stove as they Olympic and I love it. It is a heating machine. If the Olympic puts out the amount of heat my liberty does you will love it but the floating baffle of the summit is really something to consider because it is able to move with the expansion and contraction of the stove. My liberty and the Olympic have welded in secondary air channels with a firebrick baffle on top. After 3 years it has developed a hairline crack in the weld of the secondary air channel but doesn't effect the stove performance at all and a slightly sagging middle baffle support absolutely no problems, still has the original firebrick which surprised me because I didn't think they would last that long. Burn times very. I find the trick with this stove is to keep enough ash in the stove to really insulate the coals but not so much to take away room for wood. Loaded it up last nigh with 5 splits at 9 pm and this morning at 8:30 stove as still at 300 with the blower on low

Treacherous · Mar 22, 2013

I remember you talking about this.... did Travis not honor this as a repair under warranty?

lopiliberty said:
After 3 years it has developed a hairline crack in the weld of the secondary air channel but doesn't effect the stove performance at all and a slightly sagging middle baffle support absolutely no problems, still has the original firebrick which surprised me because I didn't think they would last that long.

lopiliberty · Mar 23, 2013

Treacherous said:
I remember you talking about this.... did Travis not honor this as a repair under warranty?

My dealer and I agreed to wait until burning season is over and then she is going to come out and take pics then contract Travis Ind. because there is no real hurry still have two years left to get the one way freight allowance and its not affecting stove performance. I see no evidence of air coming from the crack. I really hate to have to remove this 500 pound hunk of steel for repairs!!

Insert choices...why is it so hard!!!!! LOL

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