Best stove as primary heat? 1500sqft & drafty! Quadrafire/Buck/Napoleon/Enerzone

Well, anyway, I think we all can agree that a stove with a cat in it will be a vast improvement over a non-cat when long burn times are the goal. There is a place for a non-cat stove, a place where fast heat is important, where simple operation is important, where burning questionable wood is desirable, and where ultra low cost is important. If you value longer burns over these things then be sure that your next stove has a cat in it.

I never said the PH is a bad stove, it just has shorter burn times than the competition. If you're okay with that then the PH offers great looks and customer service should you ever need it.

Highbeam said:

Didn't penelope just bake a cake without trying? Woodstock rates the PH stove for 16 hours burntime as I recall. That's great if you are willing to settle for such a short burntime despite such a large load of fuel but some of us would rather the dang thing just burn all day and then 6 hours into the next.

If you can't get 24 hour burns, 12 hour cycles are second best. It makes burning an easy routine.

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If I cruised my PH along at 75% of max rating (i.e., 60,000 BTU/hr) at 100% efficiency, I would consume somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 cu ft of wood in the 24hr period. My guess is the OP's drafty house is going to require some BTUs. Likely not 60K/hr worth, but quite likely more than one firebox load per day in the winter.

I know several people with BKs, and they are very happy with them. But BTUs from wood start out in a bulky format, regardless of the stove, and when you need BTUs, you will likely not be doing 24 hr burns with an indoor wood stove.

[edit: my house is 2x+ the size of the OPs, so my needs are different. I can see the advantage of refueling on a 24hr cycle, but could not generate enough heat to make that work for my circumstances.]

Highbeam said:

If you want lots of heat you can get all 3 cubic feet of wood to burn up in a short time period like 10 hours

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I agree. Don't confuse the ability to burn 24-30 hours on one load with the requirement to burn only one load in 24 hours. All of the long burn time stoves have a funny thing called a draft control that allows a range of outputs. A big range of outputs is good and the ultra long burn end of that range is extremely important for the majority of the burn season. When mojo is needed, all of the cat stoves can be run up to 800 degrees surface temp.

sharkhunter said:

What about creosote build-up with the cats? From what I read, as long as they are operated properly, it shouldn't be an issue? Are there cons? All I can come up with is that they are a little trickier to burn if you try to run? Why aren't all of the big stove mfg's selling a cat or cat hybrid?

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The Blaze King is an amazingly simple stove to burn. Open bypass, stuff it full of wood, get it up to temp, close bypass and set thermostat where you want it.

I cleaned my chimney at the end of January, after one full year. I got about two cups of dusty brown stuff, which is pretty amazing considering all the smoldering burns.

The only real negative is that the cat will degrade over time, and will need to be replaced at some point. Six to eight years of normal use is what I usually hear. The BK cats are kinda pricey, from what I've seen $250-$300, but worth it to me for the way the stove works.

I think the catalytic concept got slammed when the EPA regs were first introduced. Manufacturers scrambled to do what they could, and many added cats to existing designs until they could come up with something else. They didn't exactly work well, and then combine that with the average wood burner that cuts the winter's wood supply in the fall and you get the picture. Blaze King has been building catalytic stoves for a very long time, before the EPA regulations.

Most current designs work very well. We hear good stuff about everything from Blaze King, Woodstock, and Buck. The new Lopi Cape Cod hybrid is getting very good reviews. There is another hybrid from Regency, the F5100, that we haven't heard much about. There are others, including Vermont Castings. Their downdraft design can be a little trickier to operate, but there are many satisfied owners. VC has changed ownership in recent years, and is currently up for sale, which leaves uncertainty about potential warranty issues.

In case you haven't seen it, here is this really long, rambling thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2012-2013-blaze-king-performance-thread-everything-bk.93182/ . There was a similar one last year, if you need more.

sharkhunter said:

After another week of searching, I've narrowed it down to the BK Princess, Buck 81, and Quadra-Fire Step Top 4300. I can get the 81 for about $2100, the 4300 for around $2550, and the BK for $3100. Price-wise, the 81 wins. We've gone to several dealers that sell the 4300, and they all had excellent things to say about it. Based on the reviews on this site, the BK is the way to go.

I have 2 more questions, and they go pretty much hand in hand.

1. Why are all (and when I say all, I mean 5-6) of my local dealers anti-cat? Even the ones that sell them didn't have much good to say. I know it's the end of the season, and most of them are pushing the models they have in stock so they can move them to make room for the grills and hot tubs they have coming in. It just seems odd that, even the places that sell the QF & BK, and know we are interested in both, have recommended the lower priced QF. What gives?

2. How do I convince my boyfriend to get the BK? I've gone through just about every thread on this site that covers the BK's and have read him rave review after rave review. The few negatives I've come across were from people that have never actually owned a BK. He puts a lot more stock into what the dealers are telling him than "some strangers on the internet" and doesn't think the BK is worth an extra $1000. Obviously, I'm the exact opposite, and put way more stock into people that actually own the stove and use it every day than a salesperson at a dealer whose #1 goal is to profit.

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$3100 for a BK Princess is pretty high! depends on the options you want of course. I paid $2300 for my BK Chinook last fall, and the princess was less.
I am in western Canada ... But I believe the prices are similar in the western U.S.

sharkhunter said:

Eastern part of the US here (Ohio). If the Princess was $2300 we'd buy that one in a heartbeat. Both local dealers gave us the exact same quote ($3133) for the Ultra model.

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If that's what you want, have you looked into buying it from a West Coast dealer and having it shipped? Shipping a Woodstock PH the other direction sure costs a lot less than the difference in prices you are being quoted.

The BK line charges a lot for the upgrades. The base price for the most basic princess is several hundred bucks less than the one that is decked out. Shop around for sure but understand that you are east of the Mississippi, so you get gouged by the eastern distributor which kicks your prices up by an easy 30% over the rest of the world. If you are able, get a quote from west of the river. Then there are always the guys that get screaming deals. Also, this stove will last a long time so a several hundred bucks one way or the other is not a big deal. That's the value of like 2-3 cords of firewood which you will save with the cat stove.

When dealing with these anti-cat dealers the most important thing is to consider that they are trying to make a profit. The margin is higher on the non-cat brands. You've only got one or two brands that make cat stoves and they are sold at every little hardware store willing to peddle them so the profit margin is smaller. Then you have the problem of experience. Not many dealers or even people have used a modern cat stove to know the benefits. Finally, the non-cat is more forgiving of a novice burner. You can burn garbage in the non-cat and not make a warranty claim.

Ask the dealer why. Why do you push me away from cats? What is the actual problem? The dealer's inexperience and bias towards profit will show. Woodstock's website has a few good articles on why cats are better. BK stoves offer a 10 year warranty on a cat that costs maybe 200$ to replace at that time. Don't buy the argument that you will have to constantly replace it.

I fell for it too and bought a nice stone stove from a dealer. Got a good price. After 5 years and about 25 cords (5000$ worth of wood!) I switched to the BK ultra. For me, 24 burn times are the key to being a happy wood burner. My young family can go to work, school, sleep overnight, whatever we want and the home fires will always be burning. None of the non-cats can do that.

On burn time. Burn time is the most important factor for a family burning for all of their heat. Yes, the stove will be cooler than a non-cat but it will burn at that temp for extended intervals which will make at least as much heat as the hot stove with short burn times. I don't know if you're into math or calculus but it's the area under the curve that you're looking for. A steady heat output all day is superior to a burst of heat and then a cold room.

Lastly, the BK and the buck are pretty ugly. Especially at first and when compared to the non-cat alternatives. The ultra is the best looking princess and the bold look has grown on me but it is a factor with the offerings currently available.

sharkhunter said:

How do I convince my boyfriend to get the BK? I've gone through just about every thread on this site that covers the BK's and have read him rave review after rave review. The few negatives I've come across were from people that have never actually owned a BK. He puts a lot more stock into what the dealers are telling him than "some strangers on the internet" and doesn't think the BK is worth an extra $1000. Obviously, I'm the exact opposite, and put way more stock into people that actually own the stove and use it every day than a salesperson at a dealer whose #1 goal is to profit.

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Unlike dealers who have inventory to sell, the strangers here have nothing to gain by feeding you BS.

The BK stoves are a VERY popular stove up here in Alaska. Not to say that there aren't other stoves around, but I think we can all agree that "junk" wouldn't last too long, probably would be out in the snowbank after the first -50* night and freezing house temps!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess? It's not "beautiful" per say but I don't think ugly either. Kinda like having a Corvette or a rusty old 3500 1 ton truck. That truck might not pick up girls, but it sure is going to haul wood around better.
I don't really care about how it looks as long as it keeps my house warm!

sharkhunter said:

How many sf are you heating with your BK? Were there any other cat brands/models that you considered? There is a store about an hour from me that carries the BK's - I may make a trip up there tomorrow to check them out.

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