Chimmeny fire tonight

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fespo

fespo

Minister of Fire
Dec 14, 2005
730
South West burbs of Chicago
Well I just had my first small chimney fire! I loaded the stove to the fullest that was hot from all day burning. It was burning OK and I thought i should open the air alittle more-just very little. That was it ! I was watching the temp on the stove pipe and then it was up to 1000 with the air damper closed all the way, then I shut the flue damper all the way still up to 1300 and rising. The black double wall started to smoke. Wife was calling FD I was opening windows and a had box fan blow on the pipe & stove. Kids went outside along with mother-in law.Pipe went up to 1600 and then down real fast. only a couple of sparks out side that I could see. Temps where down to 600-800 by the time FD was here.I cleaned the chimney about 2- 3 weeks ago. Fd was here in about 3-5 mins mix-up on where we live. We live in one town and have another mailing address. FD checked everything out, they went up in attic nothing wrong up there. They ask who did the install and it was me. The only thing they could see wrong was, I filled the stove up all the way.

So now that everything it is ok, And I know it has been discussed here before. How do you stop the air flow to these new stoves? I was very clam when this was going on but d*mn I have the shakes now. I could not stop all the air flow that I think was needed.
 
That sounds like more excitement than I'd want in an evening. Glad to hear that things are ok. I'm not sure why you had a chimney fire if it was cleaned just a couple weeks before. Or do you think this is just from the large load of wood? What is the stove? Where were you reading temps, stack probe?

I had these same concerns after another thread started on the same subject. It lead me to finding out how and where our stove got it's air. The good news is that with the dependency on outside air kits, also there is a method for rapidly shutting down the airflow. If a damper or valve is place in the OAK pipe, the stove can have its source of air cut off quickly. I tested this about a month ago with a roiling 750 degree fire and a fully loaded stove. Secondaries shut down within a minute or two and the stove temps settled down soon afterward. I don't know if that would have controlled your fire, but it's a place to start.
 
I wonder if, since you just cleaned your chimney, you actually had a chimney fire? I don't know if this could happen, but could some of the unburned gas from the freshly loaded wood been burning in the chimney instead of the fire box? If you loaded it so full that only so much gas from the wood could be burned in the stove, the rest went up, out of the stove and caught there?
 
What stove is this?
 
Is the stove a lopil ? Here are some post i found of fespo.

fespo said:
Thanks for all the info. A screwdriver in one hand and the phone on the other if fine with me ( Maint. tech by trade ). I had alot of problems with my Lopi's glass door seals and the dealer would not do anything for me until I contacted my lawyer. I even called the main corp. office and nothing, they could care less for me.They finally gave me a new door and it leaked again around the glass and seal. So this time i just put a very SMALL bead of gasket cement and everything works great know.

Im glad to hear ther is an 800 number that I can call if and when I have problems. Im going to watch the price of this stove, If I can get a steal of a deal I will try it out. Lowes is perry good if you have a problem with something in the first year. I know why buy it set it up , then have to remove it if you have problems. Thats just me.

Thanks for all the advice Frank
Click to expand...

fespo said:
I think I have to much draft on my stove. I know when its cold outside you get a stronger draft. Last year I was getting a lot of smoke when I opened the door on my stove so I added one foot of chimney and replace all the black stove pipe with double wall. Now its seems that the smoke and heat are sucked right out the top. I run the stove from 500 to 675. the chimney has a probe thermometers that's is hotter then the stove sometimes or run almost the same temps until I shut down the air suppy. I want to know what everyone thinks if i add a inline pipe damper to slow the draft on real strong draft days . I would only use the damper on times when I was home and in front of the fire so I could watch whats was going on. I burn 100% 2 year old oak Any Ideas what would help would be great Thanks Frank
Click to expand...

fespo said:
My stove pipe runs hot too. It is always hot even with a stack damper. It runs up to 900 to 1000 with no problem on start-ups. Then down to around 600-800 range. I have probe thermometer about 18” up also. but my pipe is double wall. Once I shut down the air to about 90 to 95 % then it will come down slowly. Sometimes after the fire settles down and its been burning for about a 45mins or so the stack and stove top will be in same range. usually pipe/ flue gas is hotter. I do not know whats up. I burn all oak on cold days, warmer days a mixture of elm, oak, maple and what ever else is in the pile.
Click to expand...
 
It is not unusual to have difficulties while learning how your new stove works. But it's hard to get a chimney fire going unless your wood is bad. If you are not burning the particles inside the stove they will accumulate on the inside of the pipe. The key is to understand how to burn the soot inside the stove. This is achievable with a good bed of coals. Always get a good three inch bed of red-hot coals before you do a full load. And make sure your wood is GOOD. Not green, wet, punky, or TOO DRY. If you burn the soot inside the stove you won't have chimney fires.
 
Creosote comes in different forms. You may have brushed out the crusty powdered stuff 2 weeks ago, but left behind the black glazed creosote which is the most dangerous and hardest to clean. Have your chimney checked out for damage by a professional sweep before burning again.
 
Well I checked everything out today. The inside of the chimney looked smooth as usual, no bumps or ripples. NOw the inside of the black double wall was clean as a whistle but some creosote on the joints. The big think black tar stuff. I NEVER HAD THIS STUFF BEFORE, NEVER EVER. I usual have brown power soot. with a VERY THIN LAYER OF CREOSOTE TOP OF THE CHIMNEY. I don't have an OAK system. My wood is dry oak. I always have a good bed of coals going. I was thinking maybe to many coals with a new full load. I don't know but all is well now I hope!
 
fespo, an OAK system is an outside air kit. What is your stove make and model? Lopi? This will help to see if it has an outside air kit available. Also, what kind of stack is on the stove. Perhaps it has too much draft and needs a stack damper?
 
BeGreen Its a Lopi Liberty. I did install a stack damper this late fall. I have 23in of double wall black stove pipe then a 45,then about 17 in then a 45 then 7in all black double wall stove pipe. From there it goes stright up about 15-16 feet that is all in inside except the last 2 ft or so. The chimney is a Class A 6in about a foot off the center ridge line and 2 feet about that. I was thinking that the stack damper was the problem. It has been real cold here the last 2 weeks or so. I did clean the chimney right before the cold snap started, Just brown soot last cleaning.
 
The Liberty is a serious heater. From your description, the setup is good. Did the fire happen after the bypass control was pushed in? It sounds like the mass of fuel seriously outgassed and ignited with gusto once the secondaries kicked in. I don't know or think you did anything wrong, but I sure can appreciate your concern. This is a good illustration of the value of a proper installation. Under these circumstances, there might have been a more serious outcome if all systems weren't fully up to spec.


I checked on the OAK option for the stove. It is a little unconventional, consisting of a plenum that drops straight from the stove bottom through the floor. I'm not sure if that would help with your quest for a rapid shutoff. Out of curiosity, I was wondering how are you measuring temps? Do you have one or two thermometers?
 
I have seen combustion and flames in my stove on a smokey fire at startup in the baffle area above the fire box with no flames in side the box or around the secondary tubes. Shutting down the air moved the flame into the fire box and slowed things down fast.
 
BeGreen I have two thermometers one probe and I surface. The probe was at 1600 or more and the surface was only at 550 when things started.
 
You said you had "thick black tar stuff" in your pipe joints. Not good! Maybe the damper did have something to do with it? Even dry wood will make creosote when the stove is dampened down too much for long periods of time. Maybe try without pipe damper and burn a little hotter?
 
fespo, how well sealed it the stack connection to the stove? Is it well caulked with stove cement?
 
fespo said:
I nener sealed the joints.
Click to expand...

That could be a problem right there! Creosote condenses where it is cold, and if you haven't sealed your joints well, you can get cooling where the air is leaking in.

The joints should be tight together, with NO crimps showing. (Sometimes the stove collar is shallower than the standard crimp length, in that case trim the crimps on that section of pipe to about 1/16" shorter than the depth of the collar) The ridge around the pipe just above the crimps should be touching the next pipe. The joints should each be secured with three screws. I would strongly reccomend either putting a layer of refractory cement or gasket adhesive on the crimps as you put the pipes together. If they are already assembled, on a cold pipe run a bead of cement or adhesive around the joint and try to work it in as well as you can.

If the creosote at the joints was caused by unsealed pipes, this will fix it. It will also improve your draft some depending on how bad the leaks were.

Gooserider
 
I loaded the stove to the fullest that was hot from all day burning. It was burning OK and I thought i should open the air alittle more-just very little. That was it ! I was watching the temp on the stove pipe and then it was up to 1000 with the air damper closed all the way, then I shut the flue damper all the way still up to 1300 and rising. The black double wall started to smoke.
Click to expand...

My God I had to check if I wrote this after I had a few drinks and forgot.
The very same thing happened to me last night. I burn hot once a day to keep the pipe clean but got distracted and the next thing i knew the double wall pipe was smoking and the fire alarms were going off. I had left the door open a little to char the load but the stove was already hot and took off. I shut down the air and ran up into the roof trusses and the stainless was warm but not hot. I could only see a few sparks coming out also. The stove burned the big load of wood hotter than I'm comfortable with but we came out a lot smarter then we started.
I may install that flue damper after all.
Dan.
 
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