Is my stovepipe code compliant (tripple wall stove)

NBABUCKS1 · May 11, 2013

I am doing a big energy retrofit on my house. I have a cathedral ceiling and I am insulating between by ceiling rafters with fiber bats, and insulating below my rafters with polyisocyanurate.

I had an existing fireplace in my unit with a stove pipe leading out of it. The stove pipe had a tripple walled stove pipe that still appears to be in good condition. I want to use that same stove pipe to install a wood stove.

I can't find any brand information on the stove pipe. Here is a picture of the existing stove pipe I have.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for code complient installations?

This is where the pipe met the old fireplace

Where stove pipe meets the roof

Kevin

Backwoods Savage · May 11, 2013

No, I don't believe you can use that. You need Class A. I've seen triple wall used as an exterior chimney but even then it is poor because of lack of insulation. This causes the gasses to cool too fast and you end up with gobs of creosote.

Rather than posting more, I'll let some others who are more qualified on this to answer.

Good luck Kevin.

Dave A. · May 11, 2013

Am not one of those qualified, but based on what I've heard them say, I think the main problem you're going to have is with the pipe going through the roof -- that needs to be class A (2100F) for a stove (I think that's what Dennis was talking about) and probably was not Class A for the fireplace. You might be able to use the part from the stove to the class A (but that's the lesser costly part and it's usually at most double wall so) maybe not.

BrotherBart · May 11, 2013

That pipe is air cooled and only designed and tested for the temps generated by a pre-fab fireplace. Lots of air going up it with the gases and lots of air drawn by convection through the outer layer to cool the pipe.

Not safe or code compliant for the heat generated by a wood burning stove.

NBABUCKS1 · May 11, 2013

Well this is a big bummer for me. Now would be the time to get this installed, but I think I am going to take it out and wait before I put in a woodstove.

I don't think the parts I would need to do this would be available locally.

Pretty sad

Jean-Claude · May 11, 2013

A quick Google search of Kodiak shows a True Value hardware store and their website has Selkirk insulated chimney parts listed. The local store can get the components for you.

NBABUCKS1 · May 11, 2013

Is there some kind of guide online I can follow? THey don't have any cathedral ceiling support boxes, but they do sell class pipe

Do I have to stick to the same manufacture when running pipe? They do not have a cathedral ceiling support box that will work (locally). The only brand we have is selkrik.

Can I get the duravent cathedral ceiling support box shipped to me then interface that with the selkirk class A pipe?

Thanks!
Kevin

begreen · May 12, 2013

Ask Sean at www.dynamitebuys.com if they ship to AK. They have a full line of DuraVent and Selkirk piping at good prices.

webbie · May 12, 2013

NBABUCKS1 said:
Is there some kind of guide online I can follow? THey don't have any cathedral ceiling support boxes, but they do sell class pipe

Do I have to stick to the same manufacture when running pipe? They do not have a cathedral ceiling support box that will work (locally). The only brand we have is selkrik.

Can I get the duravent cathedral ceiling support box shipped to me then interface that with the selkirk class A pipe?

Thanks!
Kevin

You cannot mix and match.
The manual for the Selkirk or another other pipe will have a guide to the pieces you use for any particular application.

ScotO · May 12, 2013

If I were you, I'd consider putting double wall pipe in your interior space (you mentioned a cathedral ceiling, so I am assuming your pipe will be exposed to the living space), and you definitely want Class A pipe where it goes through the ceiling/insulation/roof. And like webbie said, you cannot mix and match one manufacturer with another. Get the whole system from the same manufacturer...
Not only will mixing parts void any factory warranties, but it may also void your insurance should you ever have a house fire.....

NBABUCKS1 · May 12, 2013

I am trying to get my hands on the selkirk ceiling support box.

I want to run single wall (I have 18" of clearance on both walls) upto a support box, then Run the Class A double wall through the support box and out the chimney.

ScotO · May 12, 2013

NBABUCKS1 said:
I am trying to get my hands on the selkirk ceiling support box.

I want to run single wall (I have 18" of clearance on both walls) upto a support box, then Run the Class A double wall through the support box and out the chimney.

How much single wall pipe will you be running? If it is going to be a considerable amount (more than a piece or two) you may want to consider doing the interior with double-wall black pipe. It has an airspace between two layers of pipe that helps keep the pipe hot, allowing less gasses to condense. Single wall interior pipe will cool down the gasses a lot faster (yes, even when INSIDE your house), allowing more creosote to form in the pipe.

Just a suggestion......

Dave A. · May 12, 2013

Just learning about this myself so am not challenging, but had the impression that the not mixing rule applied to the class A portion of the run. E.g. you wouldn't want to mix in a 45 from one brand with the rest of the run.

Didn't realize that the whole run had to be from one mfr -- inside portion (non Class A) had to be from the same mfr as the class A portion.

As far as insurance not covering a fire loss over something like mixing mfrs -- would really like to see some support for that.

ScotO · May 12, 2013

Dave A. said:
Just learning about this myself so am not challenging, but had the impression that the not mixing rule applied to the class A portion of the run. E.g. you wouldn't want to mix in a 45 from one brand with the rest of the run.

Didn't realize that the whole run had to be from one mfr -- inside portion (non Class A) had to be from the same mfr as the class A portion.

As far as insurance not covering a fire loss over something like mixing mfrs -- would really like to see some support for that.

It's not so much that the single wall has to match the Class A, but in some areas it very well may be the case. Things like the class A pipe, the ceiling support for the class A pipe, the elbows for the class A pipe, the locking bands for the Class A pipe, the cleanout tee for the class A pipe, the single wall to Class A adapters........that kind of stuff needs to be from the same manufacturer. Also if you go with a double-wall pipe, that should also be from the same manufacturer as the class A.....

Dave A. · May 12, 2013

Thanks for clearing that up, Scott.

ScotO · May 12, 2013

Dave A. said:
Thanks for clearing that up, Scotty.

No problem.....that's what this site is for!
As for your question on insurance 'not' covering you in the event of fire if you have mix-and-match parts, that may or may not be the case as I am pretty sure most insurance companies nowadays will scrutinize every little angle to try and catch a 'screw-up'. I'd rather all the parts that are designed as a system be of the same manufacturer, if possible, so that you don't give the insurance any 'angles' to redirect their attention.....

Also, make sure you stick with the installation instructions and your areas' codes to a TEE, or even go a little overboard on your clearances.......better safe than sorry...

NBABUCKS1 · May 12, 2013

Scotty Overkill said:
How much single wall pipe will you be running? If it is going to be a considerable amount (more than a piece or two) you may want to consider doing the interior with double-wall black pipe. It has an airspace between two layers of pipe that helps keep the pipe hot, allowing less gasses to condense. Single wall interior pipe will cool down the gasses a lot faster (yes, even when INSIDE your house), allowing more creosote to form in the pipe.

Just a suggestion......

ABout 10-12 feet.

The cost of running double wall for that span is much more expensive. 36" of double wall costs $125 here, whereas that same span on single wall is around $20 I think..not sure. But it is considerable.

coaly · May 12, 2013

Your pictures sure look like a Class A Chimney to me. Your chimney connected directly to the insert. I think your terminology is a little off.

"Stove pipe" is called "connector pipe" and used from the appliance to the chimney. It is normally single wall for 18 clearance, or double wall for down to 6 in reduced clearance. This would go from stove to the bottom of ceiling support box.

Older triple wall chimney like you pictured was air cooled between all pipes. This was found to keep the outside so cool, it also cooled the inner pipe, where you want to keep it hot. Newer chimney sections have an insulation wrap around the inner pipe. (Dura-Vent) The support box is different for the newer style, so when changing chimney sections, you normally need to change the support box to the new style as well.

Any manufacturer connector pipe can be used with other manufacturers chimney. You can't mix different manufacturers chimney parts.

Are you referring to using Selkirk double wall chimney with the heavy insulation packed between the inner and outer pipe? This is called a "pack" chimney. (Lowe's stocks)

The support box for a cathedral is deeper for the thicker roof rafters. Instead of the much more expensive cathedral kit, I've always used the regular ceiling support box kit that comes with the attic insulation shield. Since you won't be using the insulation shield in a cathedral installation, I use the galvanized sheet metal shield to extend the support box deeper. (same thickness as box) You want the bottom of the box at least 2 inches below finished ceiling surface. (2 inches at lowest ceiling point, the box will stick out below the ceiling on the high side) I've never had a problem extending the box. Once the support box is mounted, (I use screws) simply bend the metal square to go inside the support box and overlap a couple inches down the inside of the box. Tack it in place, letting it stick up through the roof hole. Cut down the corners, and bend over roof sheathing and staple or roof nail flat to roof. This makes a nice deep box just like a cathedral kit.

mellow · May 14, 2013

NBABUCKS1 said:
Is there some kind of guide online I can follow?

Not sure if you found this yet or not but I use this to figure out what an install is going to take: http://www.selkirkcorp.com/installation-planners/supervent-2100.aspx

Is my stovepipe code compliant (tripple wall stove)

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