Woodstove performance degradation over time

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
104,429
South Puget Sound, WA
Recently there has been a lot of discussion about stove performance. This is an interesting article I just ran across. It shows how our stoves can get worse just by using them. The good news is that regular maintenance will keep it running well.

http://hometown.aol.com/snewsmail/epasays.htm
 
I knew of this post for quite some time its interesting but admiditdly the stove conditions are unknown nobody even hinted any cat combustors were cleaned after years of use
This is also Important to a word I have used over and over stoves need cleaning to continue proper opperations Note cleaned and maintained stoves suffer little degradation
 
Yes , it is a good read. I have posted this before but couldnt find the link to bring back up.

This is was i was going to answer Elks question on cat performance degrading over time and where the #'s come from.

With out a lot of detail on why its hard to tell what the issue was , ie: cat , baffle , gaskets , ect..

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The average emissions rate for the five chimney sweep maintained woodstove systems was 4.8 grams per hour (g/hr). This is very close to the average certification value, 4.2 g/hr, derived in laboratory testing for those stove models. All of these stoves were non-catalytic models. The certification threshold for EPA Phase 2 certified non-catalytic stoves is 7.5 g/hr.

The average emissions rate for the 11 stoves with unknown maintenance histories was 13.8 g/hr, while the average certification value for those stoves was 3.9 g/hr. These stoves included five catalytic models. The certification threshold for Phase 2 catalytic stoves is 4.1 g/hr.



Firebox of a Pacific Energy certified woodstove after 11 years of use as a primary heat source. Emissions of particulates from this woodstove, measured in 1998, were below the EPA certification threshold for new non-catalytic woodstove models.


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Point is that with a EPA clean burning stove we have the tools to burn clean , its just a matter of how well we take care of the clean burning appliance we have.
 
Very good read, BG. As far as what was "regular maintenance" - it didn't really say, but I'd suspect they were really just talking about general cleaning and gasket replacement.
 
Harley said:
Very good read, BG. As far as what was "regular maintenance" - it didn't really say, but I'd suspect they were really just talking about general cleaning and gasket replacement.

Yes and replaceing warped and or bad working parts , replacing cat combusters and cleaning on a regular basis , replacing broken fire bricks and heat blankets and heat baffles , keeping the chimney clean and clear are dont forget about the thread of what happens to clogged chimney caps .........they have to be cleaned too.
 
Anyone know what's involved in "maintaining" their secondary burn unit besides the chimney sweeping? Am I supposed to do anything with my secondary burn holes which appear to be getting a sort of "ring of debri" at this point? I'm also thinking fly ash may have gotten in the tubes and should be blown out? I'd also like to blow out the air intake, but I don't know where that is on my insert. I have the Hearthstone Clydesdale, but if anyone has a link to say what's normal maintenance that would be helpful.
 
Rhonemas said:
Anyone know what's involved in "maintaining" their secondary burn unit? My manual doesn't tell me, and my chimney sweeps didn't maintain my insert either.

#1 make sure it is seated and sealed with the air supply , make sure there are no broken , cracker or warped parts and if you have a gasket somewhere from the supply air to the secondary burn chamber~tubes then this needs to be replaced.
 
Thanks Roo. In addition I found a site by the EPA that says for maintenance on non-cat stoves
DO check all gaskets annually. Repair or replace frayed, warped, or worn material. Broken glass (if your stove has glass windows) should be replaced mmediately. Hints: One way to test the tightness of a gasket seal is to close the door on a dollar bill. Pull gently on the dollar bill. If it pulls easily out of place, the seal isn't tight and the gasket should be replaced. Repeat this test in several locations to check the seal all around the door. BECAUSE: Gaskets and glass windows in good condition will provide an airtight seal and prevent leaks. Leaks will reduce your stove's efficiency and may create indoor air pollution problems.

DO check seams on cast iron stoves annually. Re-cement as necessary BECAUSE: As will gaskets, seams are areas where leaks can develop.

DO check the wood-loading door and the ash drawer for tightness; adjust as necessary. BECAUSE: These two areas are subject to warp or worn gaskets. Poor fit may result in over-heating or may allow smoke to escape into the room.

DO check air controls to make sure that parts move freely. BECAUSE: Pieces of bark, ash, or charred wood may become lodged in the sliding mechanisms. Exact amounts of combustion air are essential for your non-catalytic stove to achieve high efficiency and reduce pollution.

DO check the secondary air holes for plugging; clean with a wire brush as necessary. Each week operate the stove in a "hot" mode for 30 to 45 minutes. BECAUSE: Nozzles and secondary air holes must remain unclogged to maintain combustion airflow. When these become clogged, secondary combustion won't occur. Hot fires will burn off the accumulated creosote that brushing can't remove.

DO consult your owner's manual for other periodic inspection tips on how to replace worn and broken parts. Replace firebrick and other insulating materials when you see crumbling or other signs of deterioration. BECAUSE: Failing to replace a part will cost you more in the long run. For all models, parts should be available from the dealer.

DO check the baffle of your stove for warpage. Contact the manufacturer if this occurs. BECAUSE: The airflow within your stove will be distorted if the baffle is warped. This condition can be corrected by replacing the baffle.

DO check the flue twice a month and have it cleaned at least once a year. After cleaning, check the seals and retighten joints in the flue and to the stove. BECAUSE: Buildup of creosote on the flue walls can reignite and cause fires. Tight seals and joints prevent leaks.

DO make sure the thermostat (if your stove is equipped with one) is working properly; replace as necessary. Refer to parts list in your owner's manual. BECAUSE: A broken thermostat can prevent air inlets and dampers from opening or closing automatically.

What You Should NOT DO:
DO NOT remove or tamper with the preset operating or temperature controls. BECAUSE: It's against the law, it will void your stove's warranty, and it will create a safety hazard. The stove will be less efficient and more expensive to operate. Thermostats control either primary or secondary air, or both. Tampering may ruin the precisely designed secondary combustion capabilities, resulting in lower efficiencies, higher operating costs, and greater pollution.
 
The womens Resolute Acclaim needs to be cleaned as often as my Cat. When either are dirty, they do not burn well in secondary mode.

For the Resolute, its removing the back panel and cleaning the secondary air passages that are full of ash, and for the Woodstock, its cleaning the fly ash off of the cat.

I saw Elk post a comment about keeping all stoves clean for good performance. Kudos to him.

This should be a good post to follow up on, at the end of the burning season.

Roo, since you are the resident PE expert, it would be great if you detailed a "end of season" Summit cleanup.

Chimney non-specific.
 
Sandor said:
The womens Resolute Acclaim needs to be cleaned as often as my Cat. When either are dirty, they do not burn well in secondary mode.

For the Resolute, its removing the back panel and cleaning the secondary air passages that are full of ash, and for the Woodstock, its cleaning the fly ash off of the cat.

I saw Elk post a comment about keeping all stoves clean for good performance. Kudos to him.

This should be a good post to follow up on, at the end of the burning season.

Roo, since you are the resident PE expert, it would be great if you detailed a "end of season" Summit cleanup.

Chimney non-specific.

A good idea Sandor , I think it might be best to just picture and note my own clean out when i do it here real soon and take pictures of the burn chamber , chimney and other items as i take it apart.
 
Roospike said:
Sandor said:
The womens Resolute Acclaim needs to be cleaned as often as my Cat. When either are dirty, they do not burn well in secondary mode.

For the Resolute, its removing the back panel and cleaning the secondary air passages that are full of ash, and for the Woodstock, its cleaning the fly ash off of the cat.

I saw Elk post a comment about keeping all stoves clean for good performance. Kudos to him.

This should be a good post to follow up on, at the end of the burning season.

Roo, since you are the resident PE expert, it would be great if you detailed a "end of season" Summit cleanup.

Chimney non-specific.

A good idea Sandor , I think it might be best to just picture and note my own clean out when i do it here real soon and take pictures of the burn chamber , chimney and other items as i take it apart.

That would be great, since there are alot of new Summit owners on here, and I'm sure your pics would detail what properly burnt stove internals should look like. It may help alot more than just Summit owners.
 
When either are dirty, they do not burn well in secondary mode.

For the Resolute, its removing the back panel and cleaning the secondary air passages that are full of ash,

It looks like i have to take back a comment i made in another thread.

I mentioned to Elk that non cat stoves didnt get ash / fly ash in any secondary burn chambers or holes. After your post it looks like i need to retract my statement for my lack of information to how all secondary burn non cat stoves work and or need cleaning.

Any information on this model stove as well as others will be good learning information. Not only are we burning cleaner we are also using less wood / fuel.

******************** :cheese: *********************
 
Roo no explaination necessary If we keep them clean we burn cleaner get more heat and they are easier to control
It is my belief cleaning should be done after the burn season is completed. Humid air exposed to ash which contains some sulfur combines to form H/2S/04 and will aid rusting and can even attact stainless steel. So remove the ash. I clean the chimney and splinkle baking soda down it. It helps control the flue smell in the summer and the baking soda is a base
helping reduce acidic reactions in the chimney. This is especially important to coal burners. I also leave an open box of baking soda in the stove, it helps absorb odors
 
BeGreen said:
Recently there has been a lot of discussion about stove performance. This is an interesting article I just ran across. It shows how our stoves can get worse just by using them. The good news is that regular maintenance will keep it running well.
http://hometown.aol.com/snewsmail/epasays.htm
Notice the date - 2001. That article is the "retail" version of their study; the original paper gave names and numbers (stove names and emissions numbers) to compare to the initial tested numbers. It was quite interesting, indeed. If I can find a link to the original, I'll post it.
 
I saw the article during lunchtime and posted it. Thought it was an interesting read. It would be great to get permission to get reprint permission for the full article. I'd love to see the table with the actual stove information.

Late spring I spend a couple hours detailing the stove. I may burn it a few more times in the summer for a little chill chasing ambience, but I like starting off in the fall knowing that it's going to run at peak efficiency. The same goes for pellet stoves. A little post-season maintenance makes them run better next winter.
 
precaud said:
BeGreen said:
Recently there has been a lot of discussion about stove performance. This is an interesting article I just ran across. It shows how our stoves can get worse just by using them. The good news is that regular maintenance will keep it running well.
http://hometown.aol.com/snewsmail/epasays.htm
Notice the date - 2001. That article is the "retail" version of their study; the original paper gave names and numbers (stove names and emissions numbers) to compare to the initial tested numbers. It was quite interesting, indeed. If I can find a link to the original, I'll post it.

The article like this i posted came from woodheat.org but i think it was the same short version.
 
yeppers , found it , if it helps track down to full report.
At the top right heading it reads:
This article originally appeared in the March 2001 issue of SNEWS - The Chimney Sweep's Newsmagazine. SNEWS is an independent trade journal for chimney professionals. Subscriptions to SNEWS are available by calling 541-882-5196

and it leads to BeGreens posted link.

http://www.woodheat.org/technology/EPAstovereport.htm

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It was posted on this thread on page 8 post #119

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/5859/P105/
 
Think this was one of the articles quoted on "myfavoritesite" as proof. They included two tables, 13 and 14, ir something like that. It was low resolution and I couldn't enlarge enough to see, but it seems real specious. You'd definitely need a chemist to explain the content in real world terms.

If you can get a copy, find a person to explain the data, because it is really technical. Could easily be misinterpreted.
 
With a forecast high today of 71, the changes of a 'fix' are slim to none... :-(
 
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