Info on combination wood,coal and oil boilers

From the few combo units I've worked with, I'd have to say that each side (wood/oil) compromises the performance of the other. I've always had best results with separate units that are made and designed for the specific fuel they are using. A heat exchanger designed for wood is not the best type for oil or gas and the reverse is also true.

What little bit i know, i have to agree with Heaterman. I'd lean to go with a good wood boiler and use the oil boiler you have now just as backup. That's basically what I'm doing. Your oil boiler in decent shape?

First off, WELCOME, from Northern Maine myself, The County!

Do you have two flues? Why the need/want for a combo unit? I may be wrong, but I do not think there are any made that are true gasification wood burners...........accept the woodgun, and lets not get into that as to not confuse a new member.

TS

Jess said:

I need a new boiler and am wondering about the combination oil,coal wood boilers. Currently have an oil boiler in basement and wood stove in family room. House is about 1900 sq. Ft. In Northern Maine.
any other suggestions appreciated. Got to get a move on this ...winters on the way!

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I am in the exact same situation as you and I nearly bought a combo unit. Glad I continued to research what options I have. Looks like the Woodmaster flex fuel wood/pellet gasifier is at the top of my list. The way I see it once you get into a certain price range, the boiler should heat the WHOLE house AND provide your hot water. Every combo unit I've seen only preheats your water and while it reduces your oil use, I don't want to have to use a few hundred gallons of oil or even one drop of oil after making such a significant investment.

If you really need a combo - from the researching I did, I would narrow it down to a Wood Gun, or a Biomass 60. And likely pick the Biomass as long as I could incorporate storage also.

But after the 17 years I spent with my old-tech combo unit, I would also recommend separate units - as was recommended to me before that 17 years started but which I failed to give full consideration to.

And you're going to be hard pressed to get it done before winter if you're just starting the planning - unless you're waaaayyy more efficient than I was.

[quote="BoilerMan, post: 1527620, member: 22455"..........accept the woodgun, and lets not get into that as to not confuse a new member.

TS[/quote]

Get into what? Confuse a new member how?
That the wood gun is a great machine with pros and cons like any other unit out there.
I must say the wood gun is a well hated boiler by everyone who has NEVER owned one.
Why is that? Jealousy maybe?
Can we all just get along? Each one with his preference toward their own boiler
We not talkin about whose God is the right one, just wood burning.

BTW Jess welcome aboard.
Hold on and enjoy the ride.

infinitymike said:

[quote="BoilerMan, post: 1527620, member: 22455"..........accept the woodgun, and lets not get into that as to not confuse a new member.

TS

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Get into what? Confuse a new member how?
That the wood gun is a great machine with pros and cons like any other unit out there
I must say the wood gun is a well hated boiler by everyone who has NEVER owned one.
Why is that? Jealousy maybe?
Can we all just get along? Each one with his preference toward their own boiler
We not talkin about whose God is the right one, just wood burning.

BTW Jess welcome aboard.
Hold on and enjoy the ride.[/quote]

AND WELL LOVED BY EVERYONE WHO HAS NEVER OPERATED ANOTHER GASSER!

All I know is the only other gasser that I have seen around me is a Wood Gun. He is going in to his 5th or 6th year, and has been very satisfied with it.

So I wouldn't rule one out - but I think I would incorporate storage with whatever.

Fred61 said:

AND WELL LOVED BY EVERYONE WHO HAS NEVER OPERATED ANOTHER GASSER!

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That's the key to contentment .... Want what you already have!

maple1 said:

All I know is the only other gasser that I have seen around me is a Wood Gun. He is going in to his 5th or 6th year, and has been very satisfied with it.

So I wouldn't rule one out - but I think I would incorporate storage with whatever.

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U don't need storage with a wood gun.... It works on magic.

Boilerman was right.... It got started in here.
Sorry Jess.

Jess said:

I need a new boiler and am wondering about the combination oil,coal wood boilers. Currently have an oil boiler in basement and wood stove in family room. House is about 1900 sq. Ft. In Northern Maine.
any other suggestions appreciated. Got to get a move on this ...winters on the way!

Click to expand...

If you have a way to get this boiler into your basement, you would not be happier. This boiler can be direct vented through a wall and would not require a chimney.



This is a bigger Garn but the principle is the same.

hobbyheater said:

If you have a way to get this boiler into your basement, you would not be happier. This boiler can be direct vented through a wall and would not require a chimney.



This is a bigger Garn but the principle is the same.

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Great video. Wish I could fit that unit in my basement!

Whatever boiler you chose put enough storage in to burn your wood flat out and then shut down and coast on your storage for a day or two. Extra money and effort. Yes. When your done, sweet. Your shooting for this year with your new boiler. Do you have a whole season of wood that is already seasoned for at least a year. Gassers like properly seasoned wood. Period.

I'd just like to toss in that you should check with your insurance company, mine (State Farm) won't allow a primary solid fuel (coal, wood, pellet) boiler, and I have to have an oil boiler (or propane) as my primary.

WireNut said:

I'd just like to toss in that you should check with your insurance company, mine (State Farm) won't allow a primary solid fuel (coal, wood, pellet) boiler, and I have to have an oil boiler (or propane) as my primary.

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Same here. They didn't care as long as there was some form of liquid fuel burning heat in my house as "primary". So I have a Wood Gun combo unit and I am happy. The magic is great and the ignorance bliss.

ac

Why wouldn't something electric count as 'primary'?

I hadn't considered electric, but yes that would be fine too. It's just the wood/coal/pellet boilers since they have to be loaded and don't have a "backup" supply. I'm sure one could ask "What about boilers with hoppers". I don't know, I didn't ask.

Well, Jess, some good info here but sorry for all the BS!

My suggestion is not to listen to people (generally) in threads like this, but to take a look through the entire boiler room and read enough so that you become familiar with the various options.

I'm always going to suggest a high efficiency model - no reason to get 1/2 the heat from the same wood...

Also, for most all installations, storage is suggested. As alluded to above, there is nothing magic about one brand which makes it need or not need storage. Without storage you will get less efficiency and your boiler will likely develop problems (holes, etc.) earlier. The Garn has built in storage.

I looked at the Wood Gun site and they claim their boilers are vastly better than all the other high efficiency units. That, IMHO, is deceptive advertising because they are not. If they want to submit their units for head-to-head match ups against other units in an accredited lab, they should do so and report the results.

As with most equipment, you have to balance budget and other factors against your wants and needs. If you want the most possible efficiency, find the boilers with the most recent designs from firms that employ real combustion engineers and have updated their systems as new technology hits the market (Lambda sensors, etc.).

One of our long term members who is also an engineer just started marketing his control system. He lives in VT and has spend many years researching and tuning wood and other alt energy systems. Here's his press release:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/nofossil-control-system-becomes-vesta.114289/

If you are looking for a really slick system, you may want to contact him for some advice, controls and his experience. Lots of the other folks here know a lot also....but sometimes they do stuff like in the thread above.

Sorry!

webbie said:

Well, Jess, some good info here but sorry for all the BS!
!

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Sorry that my post was considered "BS" !
Just remove it and I will post no more .
Thank you.
Allan

[COLOR=#0000ff]webbie said:

Well, Jess, some good info here but sorry for all the BS!

My suggestion is not to listen to people (generally) in threads like this, but to take a look through the entire boiler room and read enough so that you become familiar with the various options.

I'm always going to suggest a high efficiency model - no reason to get 1/2 the heat from the same wood...

Also, for most all installations, storage is suggested. As alluded to above, there is nothing magic about one brand which makes it need or not need storage. Without storage you will get less efficiency and your boiler will likely develop problems (holes, etc.) earlier. The Garn has built in storage.

I looked at the Wood Gun site and they claim their boilers are vastly better than all the other high efficiency units. That, IMHO, is deceptive advertising because they are not. If they want to submit their units for head-to-head match ups against other units in an accredited lab, they should do so and report the results.

As with most equipment, you have to balance budget and other factors against your wants and needs. If you want the most possible efficiency, find the boilers with the most recent designs from firms that employ real combustion engineers and have updated their systems as new technology hits the market (Lambda sensors, etc.).

One of our long term members who is also an engineer just started marketing his control system. He lives in VT and has spend many years researching and tuning wood and other alt energy systems. Here's his press release:[/COLOR]
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/nofossil-control-system-becomes-vesta.114289/

If you are looking for a really slick system, you may want to contact him for some advice, controls and his experience. Lots of the other folks here know a lot also....but sometimes they do stuff like in the thread above.

Sorry!

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Craig. I think you may have posted this in the wrong thread. All the so called "BS" was going on in the other Wood Gun thread. Now you appear to be ticking my friend Allan off. Probably not the best route to be calling peoples comments BS. They are just stating their opinion Craig. No biggy. On that note. I have seen many a thread in the boiler room, and elsewhere on hearth.com, get a little heated before. Or have some "drama". So why so heavily involved now? I have not seen you this heavily involved in a thread about, oh let's say, a Garn or a HS Tarm. Both good boilers in my opinion.

Look. I don't think the Wood Gun is a magical wood burner. The end all be all. That is for sure. I think it does it's intended job, has simplicity of basic off the shelf parts that some like, and in combination with storage will function just as well, if not better, as many of the other brands. Plus it is made right in Pennsylvania, the good old U.S.A. I like creating jobs here in the U.S.A. as well.

The heat that my Wood Gun puts out is really impressive. I am heating a 3200 sq.ft. house, a 900 sq.ft. garage, and my domestic hot water with the E100. I think that is impressive for that size unit. I have done a few things different with my set up. Added a 400 gallon buffer tank, took away almost horizontal exhaust piping (stove pipe) and use insulated at an angle, and improved the seal on my ash pan.

Two seasons down and have gone from using at least 1500 gallons a year to using less than 40 the first year (burned all summer in 2012) and probably between 75-100 this year because I was too busy to burn this summer and did not want to bother with making the fire everyday.

Primary heat source definition = a heating system that can operate with no one in attendance. In other words, automatically fired or turned on.

Pellet boilers fall under the definition most companies use for primary heating. Not aware of any cordwood boilers that do.

webbie said:

Well, Jess, some good info here but sorry for all the BS!

I looked at the Wood Gun site and they claim their boilers are vastly better than all the other high efficiency units. That, IMHO, is deceptive advertising because they are not. If they want to submit their units for head-to-head match ups against other units in an accredited lab, they should do so and report the results.

Sorry!

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Seems pretty typical for ANY form of marketing for ANY product...

I don't see any OTHER boiler company with accredited lab reports of "head-to-head either...

I see you have 11k+ messages, but just suddenly over the past few days you hopped into the Boiler Room as another Wood Gun detractor.

I hope you can see that most WG owners only get defensive because so many people attack US!

"magic" was certainly not brought up by a WG owner...

I've done nothing but try to help the man. If he NEEDS a combo unit, the situation is simple: there aren't many available so we have to be big boys and talk about the WG FAIRLY.

ac

Gasifier said:

Craig. I think you may have posted this in the wrong thread. All the so called "BS" was going on in the other Wood Gun thread. Now you appear to be ticking my friend Allan off. Probably not the best route to be calling peoples comments BS.

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You are 100% right. I am running all over the board doing moderation and answering. I should qualify that and say "some threads and comments about these boilers enter into the BS territory". My comment in the other thread made it clear "Lots of good information, but some BS" or whatever.

I have no problems with the singular opinions of owners or the multiple opinions of installers. We enter into a little problem sometimes when sellers may have an interest in their boiler over others - I've been in this position myself.

In those cases, it's always good for the poster to say "disclaimer, I sell (or represent, or whatever) this brand".

Oh, took another look and the BS is small, but it's there. The woodgun is "magic", etc.
As I said to some others, all the points can be expressed in another fashion.

So, to be clear:
"We not talkin about whose God is the right one, just wood burning. ", etc....

Maybe there is a reason the OP didn't continue to engage? If so, that's my only point. It's fair to warn users of a bad experience. It's fair to tell them just about anything in positive or negative features. What is not fair is to be on a crusade either way or to confuse new users more than they were already....

My suggestion for those who have bad experiences is this. Place ONE review in our review section. Once it is checked and public, copy down the link. Then, when people ask about the boiler, you can say "my experience is not so good - please see this and other reviews".