price of fire wood/ coal/ pellets.

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BioPellet said:
alfio said:
BioPellet said:
alfio said:
BioPellet said:
alfio" date="1176772149 said:
Backwoods Savage" date="1176758076 said:
$265 per cord!!!!! Wow. Wish I could sell some at that price. Around here guys are having problems selling at $150.

As for the prices going up when fuel prices go up, you have to realize that the woodcutter's costs goes up along with fuel prices. Best to cut your own.
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that's to bad, that i do not live there you get my business for sure . OUT here in N.H. thats the asking price for debarked fire wood , i seen one ad for unseasoned hard wood for 160 a cord . But the problem is, i cant burn wood with bark on it, i have allergies so i ham stuck with ether coal or pellets.
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Your solution is waiting for you - go to BioPellet.net
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yes bio pellets are good products , but to pricey 278 to 300+ + delivery.
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CT dealers sell them now for $210
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I am working on getting new dealers in NH. watch my website over the coming weeks
thanks for info, but I'm in N.H. it's a long drive !
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that would be grate .
 
HarryBack said:
$266/ton isnt bad for anthracite coal in New Hampshire...Im assuming bagged at that price tho.
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they just raised the price after that one they want 279.6+ 25 delivery . that's a lot considering that last year i paid 228 delivered.
 
alfio said:
HarryBack said:
$266/ton isnt bad for anthracite coal in New Hampshire...Im assuming bagged at that price tho.
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they just raised the price after that one they want 279.6+ 25 delivery . that's a lot considering that last year i paid 228 delivered.
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not knowing the brand and type of coal, might be tough to comment, I guess, but the delivery charge isnt out of whack...seems reasonable. We are still at $259/ton, bagged Blaschak.
 
Wow, crazy how much money trucking the coal adds. I'm not sure exactly what we pay for bagged Blaschak here, I'll have to check into it.
 
Corie said:
Wow, crazy how much money trucking the coal adds. I'm not sure exactly what we pay for bagged Blaschak here, I'll have to check into it.
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yep, and there's two tiers of trucking as well....the price to get it to me, and the price I charge if I have to deliver it to the customer.
 
Coal is somewhat like pellets in that large quantities have to be moved to get the price down - and I don't think too many folks are using it these days so that keeps the cost higher. Still, I think it contains almost 14,000 BTU per pound, which is about 60% more than a pellets, so at a price only 10% more, it is still reasonable heat. At $125 to $200, it is downright cheap!
 
Yeah, I mean families that heat their homes exclusively with loose coal pick up from the mines are able to heat the whole winter on 3 tons at $125 per ton. You can't touch that with anything else but free wood.
 
Wow, crazy how much money trucking the coal adds. I’m not sure exactly what we pay for bagged Blaschak here, I’ll have to check into it.
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Cost of trucking crazy??? NAGHHH! Simple arithmetic...Take "intermodal" for example. Move a trailer truck East from Los Angeles to St. Louis or Boston. The "truck" moves it 5% of the distance...the "train" moves it 95% of the distance...

So what's the cost/profit percentage you ask?

The trucking company recieves 60% of the revenue...the railroad 40%

Ohh did I forget to mention the railroads aren't subsidized by your tax dollars...but trucking on the other hand?

YUP! Fine example of AMERICAN CAPITILISM at work!
 
Webmaster said:
Coal is somewhat like pellets in that large quantities have to be moved to get the price down - and I don't think too many folks are using it these days so that keeps the cost higher. Still, I think it contains almost 14,000 BTU per pound, which is about 60% more than a pellets, so at a price only 10% more, it is still reasonable heat. At $125 to $200, it is downright cheap!
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coal adds sequestered carbon to the atmosphere - that's a really bad thing
 
Cost Comparison (average cost/year) from Hearth.com using local prices (pretty accurate for my NY house).

Electric ------ $4815.55 -- ($.173!)
LP Gas ------- $2703.70 -- ($2.00)
Oil ------------ $2174.55 -- ($2.50)
Natural Gas --$1781.25 -- ($1.50)
Pellets ------- $1682.45 -- ($200)
Hardwood --- $950 ------- ($175 - a season can be $0, with 3 weekends work)

Anthracite --- $610.85 --- ($165 - incl. drive to NE PA)


The only 2 negatives to coal are availability and carbon release.

I don't go by the carbon claim in the real world. To be on the grid (all electric) today produces more CO2 than burning anthracite. (The figures on the website below are for the UK, which uses 1/2 the coal the US does for electricity production.)

Carbon Numbers: http://www.soliftec.com/fuelcost.htm

By blending your burn with wood, you beat all fossils for release....
 
Webmaster said:
Coal is somewhat like pellets in that large quantities have to be moved to get the price down - and I don't think too many folks are using it these days so that keeps the cost higher. Still, I think it contains almost 14,000 BTU per pound, which is about 60% more than a pellets, so at a price only 10% more, it is still reasonable heat. At $125 to $200, it is downright cheap!
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then ow do you explain the price spike of pellets, coal and of cord wood for that mater . when the demand went up last year, and it makes no sense to me that the price of oil goes up when the demand goes up. with your teary all of these should have cum down not up .I say demand drives the price up not down. And at 279.6 per bagged ton of coal + 25 delivery in the same town is ridicules !
 
alfio said:
Webmaster said:
Coal is somewhat like pellets in that large quantities have to be moved to get the price down - and I don't think too many folks are using it these days so that keeps the cost higher. Still, I think it contains almost 14,000 BTU per pound, which is about 60% more than a pellets, so at a price only 10% more, it is still reasonable heat. At $125 to $200, it is downright cheap!
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then ow do you explain the price spike of pellets, coal and of cord wood for that mater . when the demand went up last year, and it makes no sense to me that the price of oil goes up when the demand goes up. with your teary all of these should have cum down not up .I say demand drives the price up not down. And at 279.6 per bagged ton of coal + 25 delivery in the same town is ridicules !
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is the $279 bulk or bagged? If its bagged, its not TOO bad, but if bulk, its high. The $25 for delivery isnt out of the question either, IMHO. I guess you do have the option to pick it up, and they wouldnt charge you for it, and save yourself 25 bucks. To deliver the product, someone has to take the order, schedule it, a driver has to load the delivery with a lift (on a truck which has associated costs, such as maintenance, insurance, excise, fuel, etc), a driver has to take it to your place, and put it where possible. In fact, if it only costs 25 bucks to deliver it, it sounds like a money losing proposition to me. All those aforementioned steps have associated costs with them. If you picked it up, the store would still have to use a lift to load you, unless youre one of those folks who insist it must be hand-loaded, and then stand back with your hands in your pockets and watch someone load it (you dont seem the type, tho, frankly). Now, the truck that we use to deliver such stuff costs roughly $180,000 with the forklift.....25 bucks per delivery....that works out mathematically to be 7,200 deliveries to recoup the cost of just the truck, not to mention the driver, taxes, fuel, insurance, etc. The only way around charging for delivery would be to build it into the cost/ton, which is possible, but then the folks who pick up their fuel wouldnt think that too fair, would they? Many folks do complain about a delivery charge, but when you give them the option to pick up for free, more often than not they make a value judgement and pay for delivery. :)
 
alfio said:
then ow do you explain the price spike of pellets, coal and of cord wood for that mater . when the demand went up last year, and it makes no sense to me that the price of oil goes up when the demand goes up. with your teary all of these should have cum down not up .I say demand drives the price up not down. And at 279.6 per bagged ton of coal + 25 delivery in the same town is ridicules !
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Actually, both theories are correct. But here are the variables....

Hard Coal has been mined for 150 years and there is still plenty of capacity - it does not have to be MADE like pellets, simply dug up (which it is anyway- and exported). The price of coal, as Corie mentioned, is relatively low at the mines - while the price of pellets is pretty high even at the manufacturer.

So pellets start out high - let's guess $150 a ton, and then get higher because most transportation is by truck and also there are a limited amount of plants. That means less competition and higher prices.

Firewood is more or less a local thing, and you can find prices in the same area for as low as $80 and as high as $200+, so I don't think it it a real "market".

BUT, hard coal is regularly mined and exported to other countries. So if the demand grew HERE, for instance in New England, we would have vendors like Harryback or others bringing in rail cars of bulk and selling it for relatively low prices. As it is now, the suppliers are few and far between, so it falls into the pellet category in terms of little competition in the market place.

My opinion, anyway.

Just for rough figures, if Corie is correct and mines sell for $125 or so picked up in quantity, and if a pellet manufacturer is $150 picked up by truckload, that means anthracite is almost 1/2 the price per BTU...at the point of manufacture.
 
Webmaster said:
BUT, hard coal is regularly mined and exported to other countries. So if the demand grew HERE, for instance in New England, we would have vendors like Harryback or others bringing in rail cars of bulk and selling it for relatively low prices. As it is now, the suppliers are few and far between, so it falls into the pellet category in terms of little competition in the market place.
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exactly correct. Our company has sold hard coal, soft coal, cannel coal, and coke since before anyone reading this's grandparents were born, and im most cases, great grandparents were born. Used to be quite a large business. Coal elevators were common. Has anyone seen a coal elevator lately? I know, first hand, that the last coal elevator in New England was torn down about 4 years ago...I know because we owned it. Now bulk coal up here is basically dumped on the ground and scooped up, IF you can find it. We stopped selling bulk coal about 8 or 9 years ago, due to the fact that there just wasnt a market for it in our area. We continue to sell bagged, but yes, its more money....bags, baggers, skids, etc. As for competition, Ive seen many good companies fold up, to where there really are so few folks selling coal up here, its amazing. Its a good fuel too, if you can get rid of the ash.
 
HarryBack said:
Webmaster said:
BUT, hard coal is regularly mined and exported to other countries. So if the demand grew HERE, for instance in New England, we would have vendors like Harryback or others bringing in rail cars of bulk and selling it for relatively low prices. As it is now, the suppliers are few and far between, so it falls into the pellet category in terms of little competition in the market place.
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exactly correct. Our company has sold hard coal, soft coal, cannel coal, and coke since before anyone reading this's grandparents were born, and im most cases, great grandparents were born. Used to be quite a large business. Coal elevators were common. Has anyone seen a coal elevator lately? I know, first hand, that the last coal elevator in New England was torn down about 4 years ago...I know because we owned it. Now bulk coal up here is basically dumped on the ground and scooped up, IF you can find it. We stopped selling bulk coal about 8 or 9 years ago, due to the fact that there just wasnt a market for it in our area. We continue to sell bagged, but yes, its more money....bags, baggers, skids, etc. As for competition, Ive seen many good companies fold up, to where there really are so few folks selling coal up here, its amazing. Its a good fuel too, if you can get rid of the ash.
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In my aria there are several retailers like , agway , sum hardware stores that sell bagged coal , unfortunately there is only one place that i now of that sells loose coal .
 
Have you thought about moving to a warmer climate? That would eliminate all the high costs of heat! When gas prices go up...it effects everything because whether you use coal, wood, oil, (not NG), there is a fuel cost to get it to the consumer. Sorry, but thats just the way it is. We pick up our pellets ourself to save the delivery charge. OH and Harry, GVA has never thought of having the dealer "load the truck by hand"....thanks for the idea....we'll come visit ya and demand hand delivery into the truck for a ton :lol: Nah! never mind one ton....we want three....START LOADING! and don't lean on the tailgate!
 
Mrs-GVA said:
Have you thought about moving to a warmer climate? That would eliminate all the high costs of heat! When gas prices go up...it effects everything because whether you use coal, wood, oil, (not NG), there is a fuel cost to get it to the consumer. Sorry, but thats just the way it is. We pick up our pellets ourself to save the delivery charge. OH and Harry, GVA has never thought of having the dealer "load the truck by hand"....thanks for the idea....we'll come visit ya and demand hand delivery into the truck for a ton :lol: Nah! never mind one ton....we want three....START LOADING! and don't lean on the tailgate!
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the coal is on a pellet , they bring it with a fork lift not a big problem , even my pellets cum delivered by the ton on pellets and all the driver has to do is push it in my garage , with is fork lift , no lifting involved . and by the way i have a bad back .
 
alfio said:
the coal is on a pellet , they bring it with a fork lift not a big problem , even my pellets cum delivered by the ton on pellets and all the driver has to do is push it in my garage , with is fork lift , no lifting involved . and by the way i have a bad back .
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I have no idea what you are saying....the coal is a pellet?....ok, they are delivered by a driver, who uses a forklift... right? Well....how does the driver get the "pellet" to you? Do they drive it on a truck? Or is it like Lucky Charms and "magically appear"? My guess is, they arrive by truck, which uses gasoline. Hmmm...in the past month, gasoline prices have gone up significantly, I believe the average price for a gallon of gas is somewhere around $2.75 per gallon. And the dealer gets them from the manufacturer, who drives a tractor trailer truck which uses A LOT OF GAS. Therefore, everyone, from the manufacturer to the dealer has to charge the consumer more money in order to pay for the gas to deliver the pellets.
 
lol-, Mrs GVA....we try ever so hard to get people to understand that it does cost money to deliver. Heck, if everyone would pick up, Id be happy to not deliver!
 
HarryBack said:
lol-, Mrs GVA....we try ever so hard to get people to understand that it does cost money to deliver. Heck, if everyone would pick up, Id be happy to not deliver!
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Yes but remember, you need to load the trucks by hand....no cheating with a forkilift
 
heh...I pay people for that....mostly my young nephews, since the arent covered under the Child Labor Act. ;-P


Now that you mention it, I think I loaded GVA's pickup the last time he was in....dont remember you though.
 
HarryBack said:
heh...I pay people for that....mostly my young nephews, since the arent covered under the Child Labor Act. ;-P


Now that you mention it, I think I loaded GVA's pickup the last time he was in....dont remember you though.
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Who do you think unloaded them when he got home????
 
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