UPS or generator?
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Yeah but even though my primary is burning cord wood and the secondary is the pellet stove I want folks here that depend on pellet stoves for heat to have the backup for power "burps".
ivanhoe
Feeling the Heat
Ask yourself this question? Do I need a battery back-up system while I'm away at work so the heat in the house is not a issue? If yes, then get yourself a good UPS system. I made my own because I don't want a cold house to tend with when I get home. Fire up the generator when you get home is the simpler way to do things otherwise you can get a auto back-up generator=$$$. The computer UPS system would not cut it for me. If your stove is in manual mode, no need to worry about the ignitor kicking on when the UPS kicks in. Somewhere about 400 watts should be enough to keep the stove going. Puresinewave would be the preferred course to take to be on the safe side of stove electronics.
dlehneman
Member
I got the Kill-a-watt meter last year and my Englander PAH averages about 125-175 watts on "normal" lower settings. I don't remember testing it on high but I'd be surprised if it was 3 amps. That being said, the igniter alone is typically 300w or so, meaning that it's best to avoid using it with battery power. That would be the advantage of the UPS style setup because it wouldn't go out (unless set to on/off mode and the call for heat was satisfied) so you could avoid the large draw and extend run time. I have been looking at UPS setups myself but it's big money for anything with significant run time. I would buy a generator, but I really have no use for it except in the very rare instance where we lose power. You can wire a small UPS to one or more deep cycle batteries to get good run time. The recharge time would be very long since they don't put out much current, but I don't see that being much of an issue. It's still not cheap, but would give you the most "bang for your buck" and be foolproof in the case where you weren't home or were asleep when power goes out.
A UPS does not really solve anything in my opinion. Unless you have really rotten power and have blown out your TV or computer it would be very unlikely you would need a UPS for you pellet stove. They are very isolated incidents. It may help you sleep better though. I have a surge protector it helped me sleep better until it died and put out 80v somehow they were good about replacement though. Fortunately nothing happened to my stove motors.
I would suggest a inverter generator if you see yourself running your pellet stove for long periods. Running a large generator overnight is LOUD!!
I would suggest a inverter generator if you see yourself running your pellet stove for long periods. Running a large generator overnight is LOUD!!
Trickyrick
Feeling the Heat
I am firmly in the camp of both. A small ups that might give you 30 minutes to an hour and then a generator for the long haul...
Trickyrick
Feeling the Heat
Well, it's my first experience with a generator. I don't remember if it's a 6500 or 7500. Ours ran for 3 days straight in the blizzard. I don't mind doing most 'manly duties' but I don't like messing with electricity. We had no problems at all. We only ran our fridge, tv, some lights, coffee maker. Obviously, we had plenty of extra wattage available. Hopefully we won't have to run the stove off of it, but I'm sure we will. Hopefully we will get it wired to the house and run well pump off of it too.
If you have a 220v generator then the best thing is to wire it up to the house... I created a sub panel just for the circuits on the genny. With 6000w I can run the fridge circuits, the pellet stove, the well pump and two other circuits ( the garage door openers and the tv...
For me it made sense to put in a sub panel as the house panel was full and not set up to code and I knew I would also do an expansion at some point... Now everything is to code and loads are balanced.
Well, thanks to all the input here I've made a decision.... I'm going to move slow & get one part of my power system at a time.
My power IS really rotten out here in the boondocks! It goes out a few times a year. Usually only for 4 or 5 hours, but sometimes for a couple of days.
FIRST comes the Kill-A-Watt. I'll determine ACTUAL loads for the pellet stove at all of it's different settings.
SO: THEN comes the generator. It's the least convenient but the best for covering a multi-day outage in the middle of winter! I'm going to get the refurb unit that was linked to above, by Woody1911a1. (many thanks for that link.. it'll save enough money to pay for the inverter/charger!)
After a few paychecks I'll pick up a TrippLite inverter/charger. The basic units aren't "pure sine wave", but I've read a lot of reviews online where people used them for many purposes. Runnning computers was a common use, and I saw no complaints or claims of damage to sensitive electronics. This meshes well with TrippLite's own claims.
A few paychecks later, I'll pick up a 250Ah deep cycle battery. Actual runtime on the battery will depend on what I find with the Kill-A-Watt, but should certainly get me through a cold night, so I don't have to be running around outside starting up a generator at 2 a.m.
If I can get aprox 8 hours of runtime on the battery, then run on the generator for 8 hours, I could actually run the stove, the fridge, AND fully recharge that battery, with the Tripp-Lite's charging fuction.
I have a plan! Now we'll see if LIFE GETS IN THE WAY and ruins my schedule.
Moolah $$ tend to disappear for all those reasons we never expect.
Thanks much, folks!
My power IS really rotten out here in the boondocks! It goes out a few times a year. Usually only for 4 or 5 hours, but sometimes for a couple of days.
FIRST comes the Kill-A-Watt. I'll determine ACTUAL loads for the pellet stove at all of it's different settings.
SO: THEN comes the generator. It's the least convenient but the best for covering a multi-day outage in the middle of winter! I'm going to get the refurb unit that was linked to above, by Woody1911a1. (many thanks for that link.. it'll save enough money to pay for the inverter/charger!)
After a few paychecks I'll pick up a TrippLite inverter/charger. The basic units aren't "pure sine wave", but I've read a lot of reviews online where people used them for many purposes. Runnning computers was a common use, and I saw no complaints or claims of damage to sensitive electronics. This meshes well with TrippLite's own claims.
A few paychecks later, I'll pick up a 250Ah deep cycle battery. Actual runtime on the battery will depend on what I find with the Kill-A-Watt, but should certainly get me through a cold night, so I don't have to be running around outside starting up a generator at 2 a.m.
If I can get aprox 8 hours of runtime on the battery, then run on the generator for 8 hours, I could actually run the stove, the fridge, AND fully recharge that battery, with the Tripp-Lite's charging fuction.
I have a plan! Now we'll see if LIFE GETS IN THE WAY and ruins my schedule.
Moolah $$ tend to disappear for all those reasons we never expect.Thanks much, folks!
Bender1320
Member
I am in the process of installing an automatic standby 12kw generator and transfer switch for my house. The house has a open loop boiler and when the previous owners lived here they lost power while on vacation and a line froze and burst. When the power came back on a part of the house flooded. They had a small plugin generator and manual transfer switch.
I may still get a UPS because I am not sure if the fuel in the burn grate will burn up during the generator startup and transfer. I also like the fact a UPS will protect from a brown out while a surge protector and generator does not.
I may still get a UPS because I am not sure if the fuel in the burn grate will burn up during the generator startup and transfer. I also like the fact a UPS will protect from a brown out while a surge protector and generator does not.
dlehneman
Member
PutnamJct
Feeling the Heat
For the past few years, we seem to have at least one multi-day blackout per heating season. I run my pellet stove through a surge protector that is fed directly from the generator. Never had an issue.
mik_kane
Feeling the Heat
briansol
Minister of Fire
on medium, my stove uses 49 watts for blowers, 99 when the auger turns.
start up goes to 750 watts though.
My 1500 cyberpower ups runs it for about an hour. This covers 95% of power failures. The other part of the time, I freeze.
still looking into a generator myself. maybe if I get a xmas bonus this year
start up goes to 750 watts though.
My 1500 cyberpower ups runs it for about an hour. This covers 95% of power failures. The other part of the time, I freeze.
still looking into a generator myself. maybe if I get a xmas bonus this year
IHATEPROPANE
Minister of Fire
Well, thanks to all the input here I've made a decision.... I'm going to move slow & get one part of my power system at a time.
My power IS really rotten out here in the boondocks! It goes out a few times a year. Usually only for 4 or 5 hours, but sometimes for a couple of days.
FIRST comes the Kill-A-Watt. I'll determine ACTUAL loads for the pellet stove at all of it's different settings.
SO: THEN comes the generator. It's the least convenient but the best for covering a multi-day outage in the middle of winter! I'm going to get the refurb unit that was linked to above, by Woody1911a1. (many thanks for that link.. it'll save enough money to pay for the inverter/charger!)
After a few paychecks I'll pick up a TrippLite inverter/charger. The basic units aren't "pure sine wave", but I've read a lot of reviews online where people used them for many purposes. Runnning computers was a common use, and I saw no complaints or claims of damage to sensitive electronics. This meshes well with TrippLite's own claims.
A few paychecks later, I'll pick up a 250Ah deep cycle battery. Actual runtime on the battery will depend on what I find with the Kill-A-Watt, but should certainly get me through a cold night, so I don't have to be running around outside starting up a generator at 2 a.m.
If I can get aprox 8 hours of runtime on the battery, then run on the generator for 8 hours, I could actually run the stove, the fridge, AND fully recharge that battery, with the Tripp-Lite's charging fuction.
I have a plan! Now we'll see if LIFE GETS IN THE WAY and ruins my schedule.
Thanks much, folks!
I am no expert but be aware that some motors do not tolerate non "pure sine wave" inverters. My first ups was a modified sine wave and the blowers on my stove sounded labored.....I returned it for a " pure" unit
Don't forget adequate extension cords and how you are going to route them into the house.
BKInsert
Member
At the beginning of the year when we installed a 10KW PV electric solar panels I was seriously thinking about installing a 6kW automatic switched UPS, but the cost was ~ $10k prior to rebates and ~ $6k out of pocket after rebates. I decided instead to buy a dual fuel generator (propane and gasoline) for $600 plus installed a manual transfer switch with a subpanel. Installed at ~$1500 it was a no brainer and could not justify the extra cost for using this system a few times a year...
I would LOVE to have a battery backup one of these days, I am waiting for the battery technology to improve and then I would do it.
I turned off my feed long ago in case a pipe burst. I know its supposedly not as safe but...
msh227
Member
Don't waste your time with a UPS.... if you are concerned about your stove going out due to loss of power while you are at work you are going to need a very large ups to get a good amount of run time. If you are going to buy a large UPS you might as well spend the $5k and get a whole house generator system installed with an automatic transfer switch and automatic start.
Oct 2011 and Oct 2012 I was without power just like many others were, I have a 5000W generator that I use to run my pellet stove, sump pump, fridge, and a light to see what I'm doing. I plug my devices directly into my generator. Generator is a Husky from Home Depot, I get about 10-12 hours run time on one tank which is roughly 5 gallons of fuel.
NOTE: If you are going to buy a generator DO NOT plug into any of your receptacles thinking you can "back feed" into your house's electrical panel. You need to have a transfer switch properly installed to have generation connected to your electrical panel which completely disconnects your panel from the utility. If you simply plug your generator into a 220V receptacle for example and your Main breaker is "open" you are still connected to the utility via the Neutral wire and could possibly sent power back out into the utility system.
Oct 2011 and Oct 2012 I was without power just like many others were, I have a 5000W generator that I use to run my pellet stove, sump pump, fridge, and a light to see what I'm doing. I plug my devices directly into my generator. Generator is a Husky from Home Depot, I get about 10-12 hours run time on one tank which is roughly 5 gallons of fuel.
NOTE: If you are going to buy a generator DO NOT plug into any of your receptacles thinking you can "back feed" into your house's electrical panel. You need to have a transfer switch properly installed to have generation connected to your electrical panel which completely disconnects your panel from the utility. If you simply plug your generator into a 220V receptacle for example and your Main breaker is "open" you are still connected to the utility via the Neutral wire and could possibly sent power back out into the utility system.
Ah!
I hadn't considered the motors... only the electronics. I'll have to do a bit more research. Thanks!
Woody1911a1
Feeling the Heat
also in you're adding "a" marine battery . make that two marine batteries at least for the ups's being mentioned . they are 24V
Thanks, Woody.also in you're adding "a" marine battery . make that two marine batteries at least for the ups's being mentioned . they are 24V
The TrippLite Inverter/charger is a 12 volt unit.
Without knowing true amperage draw for low & medium settings, I've made some "best guess" calculations that I think are quite reasonable. With the deep-cycle battery I have my eye on, I should get about 10 hours runtime. Including shipping, the inverter/charger and battery together will be less than 600 dollars!
I have a few old UPS systems lying around the house, and I considered scavenging them & setting up a battery bank. What decided me against that was the phenomenally long recharge time once power is restored, or generator has been started. With my one UPS, it would be almost 36 hours to recharge the battery bank!
I've done my research on the wave characteristics of the TrippLite. It a major step BETTER than "modified sine", called "Pulse Width Modulation Sine" . Essentially, many small "steps" in voltage that approximate a sine wave. Many "true sine wave" inverters/ups-es are actually PWM sine wave, with MANY MANY tiny steps, making the resulting sine wave very very close to analog. TrippLite lists many many standard motor types as fully compatible with PWM Sine units, even compressor startups!
I've learned a great deal more than I expected to, researching this project.
Both. Cyberpower UPS with a Honda EU2000i. UPS keeps the stove going when the power goes out, more than enough time to start generator or simply shut the stove off and let it go through the normal shutdown cycle to keep the house from getting smokey. FWIW, a 2000watt generator will run the fridge, TV, stove, lights, etc. with no problem PROVIDED you manage the power. Use only the lights you need to, etc. It won't run the 220volt devices or the big power hogs like microwaves, toasters, coffeemakers, etc. My entire house is all LED or CFL and that makes a difference. My Honda has run for three days continuously, it uses about 2.5 gallons a day and is very quiet unlike the contractor style generators. I can leave it running as my neighbors can't hear it, hell, I can't hear it in my bedroom. My mother and in-laws all have Honda setups with extended run fuel tanks that allow DAYS of uninterrupted use. When that winter storm hits in February it will be the best money you have ever spent.
rayttt
Feeling the Heat
I just bought the 1000VA UPS from
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Compatible-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W
for $128.99
That should hold me over until I fire up the generator.
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Compatible-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W
for $128.99
That should hold me over until I fire up the generator.
briansol
Minister of Fire
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