I purchased a Thermo-Control 2000 boiler last fall and installed it in my garage. Thermo-Control is smallish outfit out of Howe Caverns, NY. They've been building wood boilers for 30 years and is owned by a father/son team. They are very nice and helpful. I choose it over the more expensive wood gasification boilers because it was cheaper and came with 140 galloon capcity. I added a 120galloon water storage tank plus my 50 galloon indirect domestic water tank. Boiler $3200, storage tank $1100. Misc parts $300, plus stove pipe. Relatively cheap. My main concern is figuring out how to decrease emmision during the start up(twice to three times/day). During the first 30 mins, it emits large quanities of dense smoke, then it burning with no visible smoke to the remainder of its burn. Any ideas or experience. thx
Thermo-Control Wood Boiler..Anyone heard of them or used this boiler
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Mo said:
Hi, mo; I'm interested in that boiler myself , let me know how you like it . Has for it smoking at start up, all stoves and boilers smoke at start up, especially if it is natural draft. You might look into a pawer draft . I think that will minimize the smoking at start up.
laynes69
Minister of Fire
Im not sure how you build and start your fires, but 30 minutes seems a little long to be still producing alot of smoke. Build a small fire to start with and work your way up from there adding a piece or 2 at a time. Also make sure the wood you burn is seasoned. I have started fires with the top down method and it works well and has minimal smoke. Once you get a good coal bed then go ahead and add some large pieces. Hope this helps.
alfio, in general it is a simple, well made piece with little to break or maintain as compared with gasification units, and cheaper, especially when you consider the fact that it comes with 140 galloons of water storage. The people are good people. I am not sure if it is nearly as efficient as the gasifiers. I only ran it 4-5 months last year and I was just begining to learn the ropes with it. Compared to my Woodstock soapstone wood stove, it is much easier to manage and less effecient(I think). I would load the Thermo-control at 5am and then at 6pm and at 10pm. Each time I loaded it I would fill the large firebox. (alot of wood.) I live in a 2400sq.ft. house, 5 kids (ie.lots of domestic hot water). On 15 deg. days my wife might have to throw 10 sticks in for kids afternoon showers/baths, on warmer days it could wait till I get home. Final judgements are hard for me to make because I have no experiance with any other wood boiler. I do know that I saved $3000 in heating and I learned how to make the emmision more managable(smaller starter load then add more wood once the firebox is hot. How does the power draft work and minimize smoking.
Mo said:
Hi, Mo; thanks for the input on that boiler. Has for the pawer draft , there are many types of pawer drafts, basically it's a fan that eider blows or pulls combustion air onto the fire , giving you a faster start up and I think this will minimize the smoking. In teary it should work . They use pawer drafts in gasification boilers , evan sum up draft boilers like energy king , give you the option of natural or pawer draft . They claim that the pawer draft gives faster recovery , when the house calls for heat. So I'm thinking that sum thing like that should help minimize smoking at start up . You can stack mount it and just turn it on at start up , if the boiler burns clean after start up you simply shut it off . Now thats a theory of my, I don't know for sure if it will work . Good luck
Alfio the problem with power Vent draftt is it is impossible to regulate it. Gas/oil boilers A signal is sent to the Power venter prior to burner ignition it begins blowing
before ignition is initiated in the furnace a signal confirms the power venter is active. It cycles and 30 second after ignition the blower turns off.
The pe roblem with a wood burning there is no on off cycle but constant fire and exhaust. There are draft inducers that run constant, usually used in situations
of weak draft.
Another issue with adding a power vent is it removes heat with the exhaust, or it would change the dymanics of burning. It could lead to overfiring One wants the smoke and
heat to remain in the furnace as long as possible. Hopefully the high heat of the fire box burns off smoke particulates more completely.
before ignition is initiated in the furnace a signal confirms the power venter is active. It cycles and 30 second after ignition the blower turns off.
The pe roblem with a wood burning there is no on off cycle but constant fire and exhaust. There are draft inducers that run constant, usually used in situations
of weak draft.
Another issue with adding a power vent is it removes heat with the exhaust, or it would change the dymanics of burning. It could lead to overfiring One wants the smoke and
heat to remain in the furnace as long as possible. Hopefully the high heat of the fire box burns off smoke particulates more completely.
Corie
Minister of Fire
The other thing about the top mounted draft inducers is, and I'm just taking a stab at this, but I imagine when they're not running they represent a significant source of pressure drop (decreased draft). I think the idea with them is if you have one, it runs all the time. I think turning it off and leaving the furnace running would be like placing a big old restriction at the top of the stack.
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
I never could get my Royall conventional boiler to burn clean when I needed it to. Sometimes it would, but it was totally unpredictable. It has a blower.
I'd think the manufacturer would be the best one to ask. Are you burning dry wood?
I'd think the manufacturer would be the best one to ask. Are you burning dry wood?
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
This would be pure speculation on my part, but I might be tempted to try something with a blower on the INTAKE side, preferably adjacent to the normal draft (which might need a one-way flapper on it) or maybe just a blower sitting a short distance from the normal draft and pointing at it... Connect the blower to a thermostat located somewheres that will give a temp change from startup to operating temp, wired so that the blower only works when the boiler is warming up...
Essentially I'm thinking of something that gives more air when the boiler is warming up, just like a person using a bellows. Once the fire is hot, turn off the added air. My bee smoker works like this on a very small scale, though the intent is different. I build a smoky fire in the can, which has a small air inlet in the base. The bellows outlet sits a short distance away from the air inlet. Idling, the inlet sucks normal air in at a rate barely high enough to keep the fire going. When I need more smoke, or the fire starts to die, I squeeze the bellows which shoots a jet of air into the inlet and gives me a hotter fire and more smoke... (If I kept pumping the bellows long enough, I would get flames and no smoke, but that's not what I want)
With the right setup, I'd expect this would give the OP a faster fireup, probably less smoke during that time, but then a normal burn for the rest of the cycle once the blower cut off... I'd probably want to put some sort of latching relay on the blower to keep it from turning back on at the end of the cycle when the fire is cooling down, but that's a separate issue.
Gooserider
Essentially I'm thinking of something that gives more air when the boiler is warming up, just like a person using a bellows. Once the fire is hot, turn off the added air. My bee smoker works like this on a very small scale, though the intent is different. I build a smoky fire in the can, which has a small air inlet in the base. The bellows outlet sits a short distance away from the air inlet. Idling, the inlet sucks normal air in at a rate barely high enough to keep the fire going. When I need more smoke, or the fire starts to die, I squeeze the bellows which shoots a jet of air into the inlet and gives me a hotter fire and more smoke... (If I kept pumping the bellows long enough, I would get flames and no smoke, but that's not what I want)
With the right setup, I'd expect this would give the OP a faster fireup, probably less smoke during that time, but then a normal burn for the rest of the cycle once the blower cut off... I'd probably want to put some sort of latching relay on the blower to keep it from turning back on at the end of the cycle when the fire is cooling down, but that's a separate issue.
Gooserider
You'll find if you run a forced draft with no induced draft, you will get positive pressure in the fire box and chimney leading to smoke and ash particulate being ejected. This is not healthy to be breathing. You can chase it with foil tape at joints etc but it will be a problem.
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
elkimmeg said:
Hi, elk; how can you say that, when all gasification boilers use pawer drafts to operate. Including pellet stoves ! And for stack draft inducers , most of the ones I have seen have a switches to turn it on or off.
Gooserider said:
Hi,Goose; all he has to do, turn it on at start up and once the boiler is going good just shut it off, He stated that the boiler burns clean after start up.
[/quote]
I think you need to get a definition of a Power Venter That's what I'm talking about not a direct vent Not an induction Blower but a Power Venter
Also a gasification boiler is designed to use a forced draft fan. It is sized to have nearly fixed volume of air passing though the fire. A large natural draft furnace with a power draft inducer may not work correctly with its normal controls such as thermostatic damper.
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
alfio said:
Agreed in theory, but I wanted an approach that is
1. As automated as possible to reduce the chances of overfiring. (especially if one forgets about it, as will certainly happen sooner or later...)
2. Minimized the additional effort to operate the stove.
By having a thermal shutoff that latches off, all that would be needed is to turn the fan on when loading, it would then turn itself off when no longer needed, without requiring user intervention....
Gooserider
kenny chaos
Minister of Fire
Anybody got anything new to add about their experience with the Thermo-control boilers?
Thanks-
Ken
Thanks-
Ken
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