Englander 25 epi and nest thermostat

zakallen · Oct 18, 2013

Hello,
I have a nest thermostat generation 1, and I would like to know if i can connect my brand new englander 25 epi insert to it.
oil I have forced hot air as my primary heating, and would like to use the nest for the pellet stove as well.

I am currently using the Rh and W1 wires for the oil burnerto the nest. and I have Y1, G, C,O/B Aux/W2, and Rc free.
The manual here http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/25-EP-EPI_Combined.pdf
and here http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/DTSTAT_Thermostat_Instructions.pdf
say that you need to connect the G and W wires. do I connect them to the G and the w2 for auxiliary?

Any help would be appreciated, also if this is posted in the wrong place, please let me know and I will post elsewhere.

imacman · Oct 18, 2013

You need Mike H. from Englander Cust. Service Tech support to see this thread. Or send him a PM

"stoveguy2esw"

or email - [email protected]

Oh, btw....you're in the right forum.

stoveguy2esw · Oct 18, 2013

hi zak,

first thing to do is see if they can communicate, test by setting the stove into "diagnostic"

to do so , unplug the unit, then replug, quickly after replugging it press both the "low fuel feed" AND the "air on temp"buttons together (2 fingers) and release. this will bring up the stat test. the indication you look for is a "-" dash in the blower speed (you should get one in the heat range but thats a different indicator) the dash in the blower speed mans a closed circuit on the stat bus. you will get this with the jumper installed in the J 18.

now , you will unplug and connect the stat, then set the stat to "call for heat", then repeat the unplug/replug/push the buttons and release, look for the dash in the blower speed, if its there then the stat is closing the circuit and calling for heat, if this is the case, then lower the stat temp to see if the circuit opens, if it does the circuit board should remove the dash in the blower speed, then turn the heat up on the stat and see if the dash comes back, if so then they are talking and you are all set.

if the dash either stays there or is not there we need to talk to figure this out. i have not tried a "nest" stat yet, would love to figure it out with you if it doesnt work. if it does i would love even more to discuss the setup so i can learn and pass it on to other customers

zakallen · Oct 23, 2013

Thanks stoveguy,2 I will be home Friday from work, and will try these steps, and report back.

stoveguy2esw · Oct 23, 2013

zakallen said:
Thanks stoveguy,2 I will be home Friday from work, and will try these steps, and report back.

that would be GREAT zak! also, if you are working on this and hit a snag, PM me a daytime number, i'll call ya and we can brainstorm this thing out.

im really interested in this technology and honestly i haven't had a chance to learn anything about it. if i could get input on this from you it would make you a member of my growing list of favorite people. looking forward to your input

DemonGT · Oct 23, 2013

Interested to know what happens with this.

stoveguy2esw · Oct 23, 2013

DemonGT said:
Interested to know what happens with this.

me too, im sure one of us if not both will be posting about it

zakallen · Oct 25, 2013

O.K.
So I ran a wire to the nest thermostat, and I am. Not to sure what connections I should use. But i left the wires touching, I got correct dash from the diagnostic.
Here is a picture of my nest connections

I got this when I asked nest about connecting a pellet stove.

"There isn’t necessarily any compatibility or incompatibility with Pellet Stoves. It really just depends on if they run with a low voltage thermostat. If the Pellet Stove were to have low voltage wiring (R, and W most likely) and use a 24vac transformer. Then in theory this would work with the Nest. As the Nest would be able to activate those wires as it would any other furnace for heating. I haven’t done quite enough research on Pellet Stoves but I do know that many of them are controlled by proprietary means and many use DC instead of AC voltage transformers. You would need to do a fair bit of research on this and even then I couldn’t be sure as to how it would work with Nest."

Does any of this make sense?

stoveguy2esw · Oct 25, 2013

do the test with "w" and "g" with the control board in diagnostic see if the dash appears for the t-stat when call for heat is made on the stat and if it disappears when the stat is set to not call.

there is no"pulse" to energize the pellet stove, its merely a closed circuit on a millivolt range open circuit is "no-call" closed circuit is "call"

zakallen · Oct 25, 2013

Ok with just the w1and the g connected, t turned the heat up, and the stove just had the dash in the heat range, and not the blower speed .

The nest is showing that no power is connected.

stoveguy2esw · Oct 25, 2013

hmmmmm.

was the previous picture with your whe house furnace wired in? wonder if it would use the aux side for a seperate appliance.

also "Rh" usually involves a thermocoupler input for gas or oil i think, i wonder if the aux "Rc" and "aux w2" has potential, seems to me then you could decide on which appliance was controlled by the nest.

this is a bit tricky i see.

zakallen · Oct 25, 2013

Yes, th first picture is the furnace, and the second is the pellet stove. I read some where that I might need a power device for the pellet stove, but I do not know what type I would need...

stoveguy2esw · Oct 25, 2013

why need a power device? the board is looking for an open or closed circuit, not a power pulse down the leads.

did the nest guy say anything about a passive open closed "continuity" setup? as thats what we need

zakallen · Oct 25, 2013

No he did not mention that, but I will ask

zakallen · Oct 26, 2013

I have sent a message to the nest tech support. I am waiting for them to get back to me.
In the meantime, is there a programmable thermostat that anyone would recommend if the nest does not work out?

zakallen · Oct 28, 2013

O.K. I got a reply from the nest forum, here is what I think are the important parts...

"I read the need for dry contact switching from Nest between RH and W1. Trouble is, there may be no ability for Nest to keep its battery charged through its "power stealing" methodology if you can’t read 24 volts AC on the two screws when the jumper is removed where they call for the installation of the thermostat. I didn’t notice what voltage is being switched. If it is 24 volts AC, then Nest would theoretically be able to steal power during the off cycles to try and keep its battery charged. The stove is in control of the fans on these model stoves and Nest would never be trying to control the fans. As I read it, Nest could either cycle the stove on and off, or the stove can be configured for the close and open of the thermostat’s contact to switch the stove from high fire to low fire. I would think ON and OFF would be the best arrangement.

If Nest won’t stay charged up, let me know as there is a way to put a simple 24 volt AC control relay, such as the ones used to power up the indoor fan on a central A/C or furnace, along with a small control transformer (110 Volt AC TO 24 Volt AC step down transformer similar to the ones used on doorbells, except they are 110 TO 12 volts AC rather than to 24 volts) to wire the Nest on RH, W1, and C terminals. That would provide a solid 24 volts to RH and C which will charge Nest. The W1 and C would run to the magnetic coil on the relay and the normally open contacts on the relay would be wired to the two screws on the stove where the jumper wire is removed to attach a thermostat. I can draw a simple schematic and post if need be. "

Hope this helps... Thank you so much for your help.

wenger7446 · Oct 28, 2013

Most of the "Smart t-stats" (able to access them from a smart phone) pull 24v off the air handler to power their communication chip (Wi-Fi, Z-wave, Zigbee, ClearConect).

RCCARPS · Oct 28, 2013

I had to run a 24 volt line to the internet capable Honeywell T-stat I just put on my Harman. I do not (may be wrong) think there is a wifi (internet) thermostat out there that runs off batteries alone.

wenger7446 · Oct 28, 2013

RCCARPS said:
I had to run a 24 volt line to the internet capable Honeywell T-stat I just put on my Harman. I do not (may be wrong) think there is a wifi (internet) thermostat out there that runs off batteries alone.

No, the Wi-Fi chips need too much power to run off of battery. Yes, you install a 24v AC transformer to power the stat .

zakallen · Nov 5, 2013

Thank you all for the replies, I found that as RCCARPS, and Wenger7446 have said, that I will need a power source. I may give up on the nest, and get the englander thermostat.

Thanks again to all who replied.

Englander 25 epi and nest thermostat

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