Wife is getting bummed out

Seasoned Oak · Nov 22, 2013

Your stove room really needs to be in the 80s or more to effectively heat the rest of you house. My Bsmt stove room gets to 90+ just to get the bedrooms 2 floors above to 70. And the living space 1 floor above
to 75. One thing to remember is these modern EPA stoves generally get HOTTER as you turn down the air once you get through the initial stove warm up, if they are working correctly with dry wood. As the air slows going through the stove it has time to get hotter and for the secondaries to do the work of burning the smoke at high temps.But Thats only ifthe wood is dry and the stove is working correctly.

begreen · Nov 22, 2013

Too much draft can make the fire hard to control and it can pull a lot of heat up the flue. The ideal range for the insert is between 15 & 25 ft. Unfortunately with inserts it's very hard to measure flue gas temps and to restrict draft. Sometimes when the liner is very long a drop in size can help control draft.

woodgeek · Nov 22, 2013

Too much air and you carry your BTUs up the stack and out (like a fireplace). Too little air, and you send unburned wood gases and CO (not CO2) up the flue, sending 'fuel' up the stack. The EPA wants to make sure the second outcome never happens, so you have a minimum air inlet even when you 'shut off' the air control.

An insert in an exterior fireplace is going to lose heat out the back. Even worse, you are losing heat out the masonry even when the stove is not burning.

A lot of folks have just stuffed Roxul into the space behind the stove and reported good effects in heat output, and fewer 'chills' when the stove is not burning. It is my understanding that this is aok from a 'not overheating' POV, cuz an insert is designed as a convection stove rejecting the heat out the front.

BrowningBAR · Nov 22, 2013

Sully said:
Installer is going to put damper on. It's a 30 ft chimney. As far as insulation (roxul) I don't know. Block off plate I was told was going in. Top and bottom. I was not home for install. Wife was and she knows pretty much nothing about it. Dealer was actually upset that I questioned his recommendation. He said he would never and has never installed a insert that he did not think could meet the needs of a home.

If you have a strong draft, a lot of heat could be going up the pipe. This will diminish the stoves ability to throw heat. This happened with the Hearthstone Heritage I had. The damper made it a lot easier to get the stove hot.

But, I still have a lot of doubts that a 2.2 cu ft stove will meet your needs for your home.

Sully said:
He said in the end he will make sure I have what I intended to have.

That's good to hear.

Sully · Nov 22, 2013

Yeah. Me too. Honestly wish I did more research. No big deal I guess make best if it. I do like the dealer. He is good guy. His installer .........let not to there lol. I think I will just have to do what others recomend. Bring house up with gas in morning and let stove maintain. Last night at only 45 degrees heater did kit come on once stove got turned on. Actually it only ran kn total hour and a half yesterday. It was set to 68 , yesterday weather seemed colder during day than at night to me

Actually looking at pic I guess I set it to 60 around 5 did not come on yet. House is at 74 right now so it seems to hold some heat. Like I said though it's 50 out today not very cold.
The stove does do better maintaining than raising , but it did raise from 68 to 71 (71) when I got out of bed this morning

weatherguy · Nov 22, 2013

Actually looking at pic I guess I set it to 60 around 5 did not come on yet. House is at 74 right now so it seems to hold some heat. Like I said though it's 50 out today not very cold.
The stove does do better maintaining than raising , but it did raise from 68 to 71 (71) when I got out of bed this morning

That should work out fine, you'll be surprised at how little gas you use and how well the stove maintains and keeps the house warmer than ever if your not expecting it to carry the whole load. It will still pay for itself in no time.

bag of hammers · Nov 22, 2013

Sully, FWIW our 2200 freestanding stove, burning decent wood, located in a fairly open, well insulated space under 1600 sq ft has kept us toasty even down to -35 deg. I realize this is much different from your setup, but just chiming in to say it's a pretty good heater IMHO, when you size it right. Also as others have mentioned, it takes a full day in cold weather to get the place "warm" (all the thermal mass of a house soaks up a lot of the initial heat as it warms up) but once it's there, it cruises without effort. And as others with much more experience, especially heating larger drafty spaces, are already saying, it's probably undersized for you. I believe there are a few owners of Osburn 2400 inserts lurking about here who rave about the unit, so I 2nd that as the next move if you like SBI.

Managing expectations can be just as tough sometimes as managing heat. If you're ok with burning a bit of gas, using the stove for 3/4 of your heating needs on the really cold days, then you could still take a big bite out of the gas bill and be comfy (and your wife gets to keep the big bay window view of the fire). If you can button down your house a bit (which could make a WORLD of difference later), then you might be drifting into a situation where the current unit performs better and better over time as you fill the gaps, add insulation, etc.. But if you are 100% sure you wanna heat the place with wood 100%, then you just need more stove. Whatever you do, don't torture yourself.

Sully · Nov 22, 2013

bag of hammers said:
Sully, FWIW our 2200 freestanding stove, burning decent wood, located in a fairly open, well insulated space under 1600 sq ft has kept us toasty even down to -35 deg. I realize this is much different from your setup, but just chiming in to say it's a pretty good heater IMHO, when you size it right. Also as others have mentioned, it takes a full day in cold weather to get the place "warm" (all the thermal mass of a house soaks up a lot of the initial heat as it warms up) but once it's there, it cruises without effort. And as others with much more experience, especially heating larger drafty spaces, are already saying, it's probably undersized for you. I believe there are a few owners of Osburn 2400 inserts lurking about here who rave about the unit, so I 2nd that as the next move if you like SBI.

Managing expectations can be just as tough sometimes as managing heat. If you're ok with burning a bit of gas, using the stove for 3/4 of your heating needs on the really cold days, then you could still take a big bite out of the gas bill and be comfy (and your wife gets to keep the big bay window view of the fire). If you can button down your house a bit (which could make a WORLD of difference later), then you might be drifting into a situation where the current unit performs better and better over time as you fill the gaps, add insulation, etc.. But if you are 100% sure you wanna heat the place with wood 100%, then you just need more stove. Whatever you do, don't torture yourself.

Got ya. I think it's great unit. I think I just did not do a good job on the day I came down to a cold house lol. I'm not trying to only burn wood. I have energy audit Wednesday. Focusing on drafts and insulation. Find and fix. They use a draft door or something like that and pressurize house before and after. Audit is the free part. Lol

DanCorcoran · Nov 22, 2013

Sully said:
Yeah. Me too. Honestly wish I did more research. No big deal I guess make best if it. I do like the dealer. He is good guy. His installer .........let not to there lol. I think I will just have to do what others recomend. Bring house up with gas in morning and let stove maintain. Last night at only 45 degrees heater did kit come on once stove got turned on. Actually it only ran kn total hour and a half yesterday. It was set to 68 , yesterday weather seemed colder during day than at night to me

Actually looking at pic I guess I set it to 60 around 5 did not come on yet. House is at 74 right now so it seems to hold some heat. Like I said though it's 50 out today not very cold.
The stove does do better maintaining than raising , but it did raise from 68 to 71 (71) when I got out of bed this morning

Go NEST!

Sully · Nov 22, 2013

Nest is awesome buy. It works great

weatherguy · Nov 22, 2013

Sully said:
Got ya. I think it's great unit. I think I just did not do a good job on the day I came down to a cold house lol. I'm not trying to only burn wood. I have energy audit Wednesday. Focusing on drafts and insulation. Find and fix. They use a draft door or something like that and pressurize house before and after. Audit is the free part. Lol

Sully, make sure you let the stove go cold for the audit, they can't do it with an insert burning.

Sully · Nov 22, 2013

weatherguy said:
Sully, make sure you let the stove go cold for the audit, they can't do it with an insert burning.

Thanks I wouldn't have thought if that.

mfglickman · Nov 22, 2013

BrowningBAR said:
I have a really old house with awful insulation. In order to heat your home you need to oversize the hell out of your stove purchase to provide the warmth you are looking for. I have 2,150 sq ft of draftiness and use three stoves that all have fireboxes larger than your stove.

If you think you your home is drafty, most likely it is REALLY drafty. Trust me on this one.

What is your attic insulation like?

I'm still giggling on the old house from 1960. And insulation is huge, yeah. But Sully I'm going to go out on a limb (punny!) and say I still suspect your wood is part of the problem. Why? Because you said yourself that you've never done this before, relied on the sales guy, this is your first stove, etc. EVERYBODY who does this has bad wood the first year or two (myself very much included).

Right now my house is doing pretty well with nights in the 20's, because we insulated (we still have air leaks, I'm feeling one right now and getting testy) and got good wood (by got, I mean, we made, basically ordered some green and scrounged/split a bunch and let it sit loosely stacked for 18months-2 years). I still struggle with getting the air to move in this tiny pre-Revolutionary War box of a house but the wood and insulation really did make a big difference. I've had the downstairs at 72 till bedtime, and still 62-65 when I get up in the morning. Which is far better than struggling to hit 63 in the day and below 60 in the morning.

So - where did your wood come from? How long has it been split/stacked that you know of (as opposed to what the wood guy told you)? How are you measuring MC? Have you seen any difference wiht a pack of grocery store firewood or bio bricks?

mass_burner · Nov 22, 2013

I just checked my Nest for the first time, I have 2 on opposite sides of the common area. I only setup one on my smartphone. That Nest is set to 64 and reports "NO USAGE" for the last 10 days except for 1 30 min period on 11/15 at 6AM, temp was 26.

mass_burner · Nov 22, 2013

mfglickman said:
But Sully I'm going to go out on a limb (punny!) and say I still suspect your wood is part of the problem.

maybe a night of buring biobricks would prove this either way?

Sully · Nov 22, 2013

The wood was naught this year. Next years I'm good. I split wood. Checked it with moisture meter in the same vein under 20 , some 16 some , 17 and 18.

Sunday will be good test. It's running now and not going off this weekend. It's going to be freezing all day all night so I'm will see how it handles. Will be using both heat and insert will get to temp on with gas and let this baby ride it out.
I think I posted original post on a cold morning after a long day. Lol. Post has grown. I like this insert and I am knew to it. I just need to find beat ways to use and find the faults in my own home. I appreciate all the help. Thanks guys

bag of hammers · Nov 22, 2013

The NEST gadgets look pretty cool. I don't know anything about it other than a quick visit to their web page, but maybe that system will give you some insights into how much (or how little) your furnace is being used with the insert rolling? Good luck with everything....

Sully · Nov 22, 2013

bag of hammers said:
The NEST gadgets look pretty cool. I don't know anything about it other than a quick visit to their web page, but maybe that system will give you some insights into how much (or how little) your furnace is being used with the insert rolling? Good luck with everything....

Nest is awesome. I love being able to see a moths worth of data. Tells you every time heat I'd on. Not to mention about ten other awesome features ! I recommend highly

Sons924 · Nov 22, 2013

mfglickman said:
I'm still giggling on the old house from 1960. And insulation is huge, yeah. But Sully I'm going to go out on a limb (punny!) and say I still suspect your wood is part of the problem. Why? Because you said yourself that you've never done this before, relied on the sales guy, this is your first stove, etc. EVERYBODY who does this has bad wood the first year or two (myself very much included).

Right now my house is doing pretty well with nights in the 20's, because we insulated (we still have air leaks, I'm feeling one right now and getting testy) and got good wood (by got, I mean, we made, basically ordered some green and scrounged/split a bunch and let it sit loosely stacked for 18months-2 years). I still struggle with getting the air to move in this tiny pre-Revolutionary War box of a house but the wood and insulation really did make a big difference. I've had the downstairs at 72 till bedtime, and still 62-65 when I get up in the morning. Which is far better than struggling to hit 63 in the day and below 60 in the morning.

So - where did your wood come from? How long has it been split/stacked that you know of (as opposed to what the wood guy told you)? How are you measuring MC? Have you seen any difference wiht a pack of grocery store firewood or bio bricks?

Cool dogs in your avatar

Woody Stover · Nov 24, 2013

woodgeek said:
An insert in an exterior fireplace is going to lose heat out the back. Even worse, you are losing heat out the masonry even when the stove is not burning.

A lot of folks have just stuffed Roxul into the space behind the stove and reported good effects in heat output, and fewer 'chills' when the stove is not burning.

I've got an exterior chimney here, and a free-stander on the hearth. I put a batt of Roxul above the stove top at lintel height, but haven't put any against the fireplace walls. I'm not really worried about it radiating cold back into the room since I can get enough heat off the stove as is. I did get the heat shield for the back of the stove, which I think reflects the radiation back toward the stove, instead of heating up the masonry.
At my MIL's, it's a battle to heat from a glassed-in room at one end of the house (Buck 91 insert.) This fall I put a batt of Roxul above the stove, a batt around the pipe at the top of the chimney, and left the surround off. Even though this is an interior chimney, I think I'm getting more heat off the stove. You could try leaving the surround off and see if that helps....if it'll fly with the wife. Some guys have even painted the inside of the fireplace black to make this type of setup look better. We haven't done that yet at MIL's but not much masonry is visible.....the Buck is huge.

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