I would really like to use my stove right now. . . .

loadstarken said:

Hehe Thanks for liking my post! Hehe

I figured I'd bring this thread back up instead of making another WA burn ban thread.

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No problem I enjoyed reading and it made me chuckle! I just packed the stove with Larch, now its time to watch the flames and enjoy the heat while watching the walking dead. Its -14c in the East kootenays. We don't have burning restrictions, makes me feel fortunate.

While I don't want to destroy the place where we live, those who worship at the altar of mother earth annoy the crap out of me. And if you're sitting in a house with inside temps in the 50's because a bureaucrat (who's toasty warm in a house heated with coal-fired electricity that YOU paid for) says you can't use your wood stove, then I shake my head.

We are at a stage 2 ban, no solid fuel period, in Pierce county which reaches from central puget sound to Mt. Rainier. Apparently, some sniffer device down in urban Tacoma sniffed some smoke it didn't like so those of us way up in the mountains get to go cold.

BrotherBart said:

And good citizen that you are I am sure that you...

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Both stoves are hot. It's a freaking Saturday and the grass is crunchy frozen. I only go a little more stealth, load when dark. Be extra sure to burn cleanly.

Man glad we don't have this issue north of the border. They had tried to get something going up here but the rural municipalities want none of it and it got canned. Not that many smoke dragons in use here as it's almost impossible to get house insurance with an uncertified stove and chimney.

It was talked about in my county due to someone in my town who burnt green wood in his boiler, and that smoke kept getting sucked into the schools havc system. That individual refused to do anything about it. Court action was the result. Crap like this is what gives all of us woodburners a bad name, and makes it so that we have to deal with things like the burn bans.

On a side note about burning clean, I just went with my father to look at new inserts to replace his Ultragreat with yesterday. Their house is one that always has smoke billowing out of it, and this should help to clear up that problem!

I'd burn down the state office that told me I could not burn for heat. This is America dang it! Tired of the dang guberment telling us what we can and can't do!

Even though I hate leaf burners in the fall... I always oppose the talk of banning it. Figure keep the discussion on the leaves and grass clippings and it will be longer before they get to the stove!

Stage 2 now in effect for King, Snohomish, Pierce, Yakima and Spokane counties
http://waburnbans.net/recent-burn-bans/

Wow this is a terrible thread to read and it breaks my heart. I hope it never happens around here.

I still get aggravated though. I live out in the middle of nowhere so neighbors aren't a problem, but both my nextdoor neighbors live about 1/4 mile away and have outdoor boilers. I have at least a year extra of wood on hand at all times.

Every 3-4 weeks they are bringing in freshly bucked wood, splitting it as they go and it immediately goes into the outdoor furnace. Every morning huge clouds of wood smoke march on down to my house if the current is just right...

I always thought lots of wood and lots of smoke was normal until I got my PE stove and found this site.....

begreen said:

That ban reaches all the way up Puget Sound through King and Snohomish counties. I could tell it was coming by the brown fug I saw hanging over the sound yesterday.

Unfortunately there are still a lot of yokels around here that still burn their smudge pots like it was 1913. Often they spoil it for the rest of us. We live in a geographic bowl between mountain ranges that under a temperature inversion accumulates our spew. When you are in a pool and the water starts turning brown, ya know someone violated the rules. Then it's every one out of the pool until they can drain and clean it up. 36F here and we are burning electrons.

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LOL! Great way to put it! But I don't mean to make light of the "situation", it's a real bummer.

Probably a really dumb question, but what the heck, has anyone or any group tried to legislate using only EPA burners? The Pittsburgh steel mills used to have a similar problem, the city was a mess with soot all the time. Sometime around the 80's they regulated with some stricter regs on smog output, and it suddenly cleaned up and is now beatiful and clean. Of course, lots of the mills closed and moved to China as well, but the regs di help alot.

Machria said:

Probably a really dumb question, but what the heck, has anyone or any group tried to legislate using only EPA burners?

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Of course. It is illegal to buy, sell, install, and in some cases even sell a house with a non-epa wood stove. There are two problems, fireplaces are still allowed and the larger problem is that the old pre-epa stoves haven't been replaced since they last so dang long.

It's like automotive pollution. Say I have a really cool 1967 mustang in my garage, a classic, I want to keep it and use it. After all, I bought it legally. It does pollute more than modern cars and new emissions regulations would not allow it to be made the same way today. Most cars from that era are rotting away but the old stoves are still being used. A law passed that required scrapping that old mustang would never happen, but certain folks could offer to buy it and scrap it if they really disliked pollution.

So long as there are fireplaces and huge numbers of smoke dragons we will never stop this cycle of muddying the puget bowl every year.

The good news is that Puget Sound Energy, our region's power utility, is still offering 1200$ refunds for even self installed minisplits.

Understood, but how about just banning smoke dragons during smoke bans, instead of a broad all stoves? Or do they do that already sometimes?

Machria said:

Understood, but how about just banning smoke dragons during smoke bans, instead of a broad all stoves? Or do they do that already sometimes?

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Good luck enforcing that without infringing even further on people's right to privacy in their homes.

Machria said:

Understood, but how about just banning smoke dragons during smoke bans, instead of a broad all stoves? Or do they do that already sometimes?

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They do do that. When air is just a bit dirty we have stage 1 bans where only fireplaces and uncertified stoves are banned. During this time you can burn a certified stove, but you are not allowed to smoke for more than the first 20 minutes. The burden of proof is on the burner to demonstrate that their stove is certified if questioned.

After a stage 1 ban is deemed unaffective, which is always, they go to a stage 2 ban so nobody is supposed to burn.

The stage 1 would be far more effective if it was called earlier, more often, and enforced. The whole idea should be to make it an incentive to buy a modern certified stove and ditch the smoke dragon.

BCC_Burner said:

Good luck enforcing that without infringing even further on people's right to privacy in their homes.

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What makes you think you have such rights?

That is why I went to gas to many red ban days. Now they are talking about doing away will all wood burning government. You know I really like the gas better. Have both wood and coal as you get older makes a difference.

begreen said:

Nonsense. You can see the pollution when it gets bad. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that. When you're out on the lake and a turd floats by you, I'll bet you'll be the first one to ask why this is permitted.

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but if I take your floating turd problem to the government I expect they might enforce a stage 2 flush ban on all toilets until the feces sensors are satisfied the water is clean. Yes, my example is silly, but my point is that many of us don't trust the government to fix problems sensibly. Not that it's an easy problem... the difficult truth is that humans don't scale very effectively.

I must be one of those mediocre minds Mr. Maeterlinck describes