Barometric damper on insert
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A baro would intentionally let a little cool air into your stack to reduce draft, when it exceeded a threshold (controlled by a little weight). If your dealer thinks your stack/draft is too high, it is a possible solution. Unlike a reduced, it would only engage (slow things down) when you were really rolling. Could give you better control.
Anyone around here run a baro on a tall stack?
Anyone around here run a baro on a tall stack?
We do, but there's a few drawbacks. One is you pull a bit of air thru the baro, so it will pull some heat from the home. It cools the stack quite a bit also, but it's very effective in reducing draft. The problem with a baro on an insert is not having access to it. If there's a strong draft, the best bet is to reduce the intake a little bit to try and control the insert.
Yeah not my problem. They are installing.Good luck installing a baro on an insert stack.
They may put a key damper in the pipe but they ain't gonna be putting a barometric damper up in the chimney. And with an insert, seeing how you access it to open and close the thing is gonna be interesting also.
They said it's more or less a type of screen that we would not have to access to open or close. A type of filter to cut draft down perm. Downside is it will not be able to be adjusted. Baro is the term they used.
missedbass
Member
Yeah I know. I was talking about the install of it. I can care less if it's hard to do. I do care about performance of insert and so does the dealer. He has said that he has done this before. He has a trouble shooting process. While they pull the insert it will be a good time to put roxul behind it. That's a plus.
The dealer seems to know what he is doing. More than I do. So I listen to him. I try to use his experience as well as others on forum to learn about these inserts. There is a lot to learn that's for sure.
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
have they taken a draft reading? I am a little surprised they will just throw one in to see if it works. it is not an easy job.
Nobody on the planet with more wood burning appliance device experience than John Gulland. Here is his take on baros for regulating overdraft with EPA stoves.
"The third potential solution is to install a barometric draft control in the flue pipe. Although a barometric control could work, it would also vastly increase the amount of air consumed by the system. The higher the draft, the more the control swings open and the more room air would flow into the venting system. These effects would reach their maximum during the coldest weather when draft is highest. That would represent a considerable energy efficiency penalty and could create depressurization problems in a well-sealed new house. Also, the barometric control could be the easiest path for smoke spillage into the room in a house with negative pressure problems.
The oil and gas industries have worked to eliminate dilution devices like barometric controls from their equipment because of the energy penalty and operational problems. The wood heating industry should probably do the same. In fact, the CSA B365 technical committee has already moved in that direction. A new clause proposed for the next edition of the code reads: 'A Barometric damper shall not be installed in the flue vent of an appliance unless the appliance has been certified for use with a barometric damper.'"
"The third potential solution is to install a barometric draft control in the flue pipe. Although a barometric control could work, it would also vastly increase the amount of air consumed by the system. The higher the draft, the more the control swings open and the more room air would flow into the venting system. These effects would reach their maximum during the coldest weather when draft is highest. That would represent a considerable energy efficiency penalty and could create depressurization problems in a well-sealed new house. Also, the barometric control could be the easiest path for smoke spillage into the room in a house with negative pressure problems.
The oil and gas industries have worked to eliminate dilution devices like barometric controls from their equipment because of the energy penalty and operational problems. The wood heating industry should probably do the same. In fact, the CSA B365 technical committee has already moved in that direction. A new clause proposed for the next edition of the code reads: 'A Barometric damper shall not be installed in the flue vent of an appliance unless the appliance has been certified for use with a barometric damper.'"
John did an excellent article on this exact problem.
http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm
http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm
Well that does not seem promising. I'm just trying to get what everyone else claims they get out of insert. Osburn 2200. Wood put on two hours ago. Reached 700. All ready down to three hundred. No flames just coals. What would you guys do ? Obviously that's not good operation. Wood is under 20 mc. It is mixed hard woods. Split and tested with meter. What would be next step. Or what do you think could be problem
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
this is a good read. I wished he would have explained why oil is moving away from them. definitely a good read. thanks for sharing.
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
Not exactly sure how they work but if there was a chimney fire wouldn't you feed more air to the chimney fire with a barometric damper?
Edit: Did a quick search, doesn't look good to me. http://chimneysweeponline.com/hoxdraft.htm
"There are two techniques we know of to reduce chimney updraft, and both involve some attendant risk. Barometric dampers, often used in conjunction with oil-burning furnaces, are installed in the stovepipe and have an adjustable, weighted flapper that is drawn inward by the updraft, allowing room air to enter the pipe to reduce chimney updraft in much the same way as the thumb slide on a vacuum cleaner hose reduces suction power below. The problem with barometric dampers is, the reduced updraft might adversely affect the secondary burn, reducing efficiency and increasing emissions. Further, the intrusion of room-temperature air into the flue cools the flue gases, causing increased creosote formation. Finally, if the increased formation of creosote leads to a chimney fire, the resulting extreme updraft will pull the barometric damper WIDE open, and could allow the chimney fire to rage out of control."
Edit: Did a quick search, doesn't look good to me. http://chimneysweeponline.com/hoxdraft.htm
"There are two techniques we know of to reduce chimney updraft, and both involve some attendant risk. Barometric dampers, often used in conjunction with oil-burning furnaces, are installed in the stovepipe and have an adjustable, weighted flapper that is drawn inward by the updraft, allowing room air to enter the pipe to reduce chimney updraft in much the same way as the thumb slide on a vacuum cleaner hose reduces suction power below. The problem with barometric dampers is, the reduced updraft might adversely affect the secondary burn, reducing efficiency and increasing emissions. Further, the intrusion of room-temperature air into the flue cools the flue gases, causing increased creosote formation. Finally, if the increased formation of creosote leads to a chimney fire, the resulting extreme updraft will pull the barometric damper WIDE open, and could allow the chimney fire to rage out of control."
I've done both, reduced the intakes some, and of course ran the baro. When I use the baro, I have a steady draft, no matter what the weather conditions. During mild weather, it doesn't open much and when cold weather hits, it opens quite a bit. The manufacturer of our furnace recommends the use of the baro, and that's because it's an on and off draft. I don't control the burn, the furnace regulates off of a thermostat at a set temp. If I didn't have a baro and the damper opened during a cold night, it could easily overheat.
When I went without one and reduced the intakes, results vary with the burn as the weather changes. Once again, I have a different unit, unlike a manual control stove or insert. Truthfully, I didn't feel efficiency was as high when I did this.
Baro's aren't the devil, some of us use them without any problems. There was one study that claimed creosote was reduced, due to increased velocity in the chimney as well as the dilution of room air. Basically, if any woodburning unit can burn up the smoke, there's little chance for creosote to accumulate.
John said it right, if you can reduce the intakes, it's the best option. But draft should be verified with a manometer, to determine whether an overdraft problem exists.
When I went without one and reduced the intakes, results vary with the burn as the weather changes. Once again, I have a different unit, unlike a manual control stove or insert. Truthfully, I didn't feel efficiency was as high when I did this.
Baro's aren't the devil, some of us use them without any problems. There was one study that claimed creosote was reduced, due to increased velocity in the chimney as well as the dilution of room air. Basically, if any woodburning unit can burn up the smoke, there's little chance for creosote to accumulate.
John said it right, if you can reduce the intakes, it's the best option. But draft should be verified with a manometer, to determine whether an overdraft problem exists.
I bought a key damper section, about 6" long to do the same thing on my insert. Of course, after i bought it i see the instructions say something about not being approved for inserts. I forgot exactly what the problem was. I could see not having access to the key being a problem, though i was going to solve that with an extension. Either way, i ended up finding ways to reduce the air intakes. in the end it was more work but a better way of doing it.
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