Mt Vernon AE settings....

doug crann · Nov 30, 2013

Burn the orange Lignetics. Bag says Western Conifer sawdust. Been trying to find settings that are "right". Western Conifers is a softwood, correct? Have it on softwood pellets. Had the flame height set at -2. Soot city on the glass. Does lowering the flame height setting also effect the amount of air it is burning? Going to turn it off, give it a quick cleaning and restart it with the flame height at 0. Had it set on the utility setting, flame height at -1, ran it at plus 1 as well.. Less soot. However it sounded like a train coming thru the building when it was lighting. And it does the auto clean every hour or so.which makes the house get chilly....we have some serious insulation issues I know. Tried it on he hardwood setting as well, still sooted up. I am a bit of a car guy. If I were tuning my car and seen the soot I would say it is not getting enough air. Is that the case with the soot? Does changing the flame height allow more or less air in? Or does it just adjust the amount of fuel? Not much info about the fuel tables around. I did find the Quadrafire Technicians Trouble Shooting Guide. Zero info in it to help me out. Any Quad techs out there able to help me out?
Stove gets cleaned weekly. Every other week plate comes out and I clean the exchanger. Every ton the 4" pipe gets cleaned, as well as the exhaust blower/housing.

jimfrompa · Nov 30, 2013

I have a newly installed Mt Vernon AE and the folks who set it up told me to adjust the flame height so it tickles the top of the diamond on the baffle at the highest. I burn primarily hardwood pellets with a soft wood bag now and then (Stove Chow). My glass soots up in about 3 days time - gets a bit foggy after about one half a day after cleaning the glass. I never change my flame height or my pellet type. My flame height is set at +2. I'm so new at this that I don't know if that's correct or if it should be adjusted, but it seems okay to me.

doug crann · Nov 30, 2013

jimfrompa said:
I have a newly installed Mt Vernon AE and the folks who set it up told me to adjust the flame height so it tickles the top of the diamond on the baffle at the highest. I burn primarily hardwood pellets with a soft wood bag now and then (Stove Chow). My glass soots up in about 3 days time - gets a bit foggy after about one half a day after cleaning the glass. I never change my flame height or my pellet type. My flame height is set at +2. I'm so new at this that I don't know if that's correct or if it should be adjusted, but it seems okay to me.

When you say highest....did you set the stove to manual and set it to high? Ours will have the flame tickle the top of the diamond, pretty much no matter what the flame height is set to on medium low...

jimfrompa · Nov 30, 2013

Yes, it's set to manual, with heat output set to 4 (medium high), and flame height set to +2. My maintain temp is 77 with a differential at 3 degrees. She's running about 30 minutes out of every hour. My house is 40 years old but is well insulated. Here in Pennsylvania, nights this time of year get into the 20's and daytime temps get into 30's and 40's. House is comfortable with most distant rooms getting down to 68 - 69 at coldest time of the night.

LMPS · Nov 30, 2013

I have had a MT Vernon AE for about 6yrs now. I am not sure if the flame height adjustment changes the air flow or not but one thing that effects the amount of soot is what temp. the stove is burning at. If it is burning on low the glass will soot up more. So, what I have done is set the temp up on say 77 (the house will never reach that unless its warm out, above 30) and set the stove to automatic. This way the stove burns on a higher setting and it does not really matter if I have it on manual or automatic.
The flame height does control how much fuel is being burned thus it controls the heat output. We had a long discussion about this last year https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/mt-vernon-ae-insert-need-more-heat.104344/
Basically, some of us complained about the heat output of the stove and came to the realization that we had the flame height too low. We had been starving the stove. The higher the flame height the more pellets thus the more heat. Also the less heat loss during the auto cleans as when the stove starts back up it feeds more pellets thus starts at a higher temp. I know the dealers tell you not to have your flame height too high but for me its about heat so when its cold I crank it up to +5 and let it go.

JoeS · Nov 30, 2013

LMPS said:
I have had a MT Vernon AE for about 6yrs now. I am not sure if the flame height adjustment changes the air flow or not but I thing that effects the amount of soot is what temp. the stove is burning at. If it is burning on low the class will soot up more. So, what I have done is set the temp up on say 77 (the house will never reach that unless its warm out, above 30) and set the stove to automatic. This way the stove burns on a higher setting and it does not really matter if I have it on manual or automatic.
The flame height does control how much fuel is being burned thus it controls the heat output. We had a long discussion about this last year https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/mt-vernon-ae-insert-need-more-heat.104344/
Basically, some of us complained about the heat output of the stove and come to the realization that we had the flame height too low. We had been starving the stove. The higher the flame height the more pellets thus the more heat. Also the less heat loss during the auto cleans as when the stove starts back up it feeds more pellets thus starts at a higher temp. I know the dealers tell you not to have your flame height too high but for me its about heat so when its cold I crank it up to +5 and let it go.

Forgot about this and was back to my old method of running -4 to -5. Thanks for the reminder!

hooter04 · Nov 30, 2013

I don't worry to much about soot on the glass ,just figure it's got to do with the pellets I'm burnin.No matter how I set the stoves up I still get soot,so I wouldn't be to concerned about it.

doug crann · Nov 30, 2013

hooter04 said:
I don't worry to much about soot on the glass ,just figure it's got to do with the pellets I'm burnin.No matter how I set the stoves up I still get soot,so I wouldn't be to concerned about it.

Not real concerned about the soot on the glass, but am concerned about the amount of soot that was on the heat exchanger. I cleaned it on the 10th & it was pretty nasty already.
I was just messing with the flame setting. Took several attempts for it to light itself, that issue is for another thread, and once it got past the start cycle I set it on manual/high. With the height at 0 the flame was touching the top of the box. Ended up with it at -5 and the flame was still just about at the top of the box. Could the Orange Lignetics that come from Sandpoint Idaho be that hot?
For now, it is set at softwood, auto with the height at -5 still. Going to let it burn tonight, shut it off tomorrow and take note of how it looks. Then change the flame height to 0 and see how it does. Weather folks are saying we will be seeing single digits night temps this week, hopefully I get this sorted out by then.
Truly glad I stumbled onto this site. Ernestina and I will be building a house here in the not too distant future. Have a bunch of questions about insulation, stove placement etc. that I am sure some of you very knowledgeable folks will have some good advice for.....

Will keep you guys posted in regards to my soot troubles.....

Thanks again....
Doug

hooter04 · Nov 30, 2013

Thats the best thing about this site is a.lot of good info.

doug crann · Nov 30, 2013

hooter04 said:
Thats the best thing about this site is a.lot of good info.

I stumbled on this site last year when I was looking for help trying to get a neighbors pellet stove running but forgot to bookmark it.

LMPS · Nov 30, 2013

doug crann said:
Not real concerned about the soot on the glass, but am concerned about the amount of soot that was on the heat exchanger. I cleaned it on the 10th & it was pretty nasty already.
I was just messing with the flame setting. Took several attempts for it to light itself, that issue is for another thread, and once it got past the start cycle I set it on manual/high. With the height at 0 the flame was touching the top of the box. Ended up with it at -5 and the flame was still just about at the top of the box. Could the Orange Lignetics that come from Sandpoint Idaho be that hot?
For now, it is set at softwood, auto with the height at -5 still. Going to let it burn tonight, shut it off tomorrow and take note of how it looks. Then change the flame height to 0 and see how it does. Weather folks are saying we will be seeing single digits night temps this week, hopefully I get this sorted out by then.
Truly glad I stumbled onto this site. Ernestina and I will be building a house here in the not too distant future. Have a bunch of questions about insulation, stove placement etc. that I am sure some of you very knowledgeable folks will have some good advice for.....

Will keep you guys posted in regards to my soot troubles.....

Thanks again....
Doug

Doug the only issue with running the stove at -5 is heat output, if your house is warm enough at -5 then there is no reason you can not run it at -5. In my case I have to run it at +4 to get the heat output that I need. Now that could be the pellets but I think it has more to do with how well the house is insulated, position of the stove and a host of other things. Each house and stove set up is different so what I set mine at might not work for you. The trick is understanding the settings and finding what works for your house and stove.

tsmith · Nov 30, 2013

The only way to add more air is to switch to high elevation setting, however this will default any upgraded burn tables back to the default settings. Each fuel table is automatically adjusted for airflow, the only thing you can adjust is feed rate (flame height). If your stove sounds like a freight train on start up, check to make sure the ash pan is seated tightly. This is the one thing about the Quads I don't like, you don't have a lot of user adjustment and I wish you could keep it from auto cleaning and shutting off. It should have a high low maint. burn mode like the others. I also have a Harman Accentra and I like the ability to adjust more on it and the maint. burn mode.

doug crann · Nov 30, 2013

LMPS said:
Doug the only issue with running the stove at -5 is heat output, if your house is warm enough at -5 then there is no reason you can not run it at -5. In my case I have to run it at +4 to get the heat output that I need. Now that could be the pellets but I think it has more to do with how well the house is insulated, position of the stove and a host of other things. Each house and stove set up is different so what I set mine at might not work for you. The trick is understanding the settings and finding what works for your house and stove.

The problem very could well be that my ocd is in high gear the past few days. Thing that bugs me is the amount of soot that has been building up, to me, is a sure sign that I have somewhat incomplete combustion. I just put it back on manual/high and took these pictures. Flame does not seem to be as high as it was a few minutes ago. If I leave the stove on auto & by chance it ends up on high is this not going to overheat the stove? We have 4 birds in our place, would hate to go to town & have the stove overheat & turn off while we are gone.....don't think our feathered friends would appreciate the house with out heat..... :eek:

doug crann · Nov 30, 2013

tsmith said:
The only way to add more air is to switch to high elevation setting, however this will default any upgraded burn tables back to the default settings. Each fuel table is automatically adjusted for airflow, the only thing you can adjust is feed rate (flame height). If your stove sounds like a freight train on start up, check to make sure the ash pan is seated tightly. This is the one thing about the Quads I don't like, you don't have a lot of user adjustment and I wish you could keep it from auto cleaning and shutting off. It should have a high low maint. burn mode like the others. I also have a Harman Accentra and I like the ability to adjust more on it and the maint. burn mode.

Our thermostat has never had any updates on it since we purchased the stove a few years ago. Suppose it does not mean updates were not done on it prior to picking it up. Have been battling the freight train on & off since we purchased the stove. Seems like it only gets loud the day or so before we do our weekly cleaning....at least lately. Suppose it would not hurt to get a new gasket for the tray... I know exactly what you mean about the lack of adjustments in regards to the auto clean and shutting off. Our place is very poorly insulated, a few year ago we were at -20 one night, every time it shut off to clean we would lose a few degrees. We have a Big E as well, but the thing is a pig when it comes to pellet consumption.....plus the Quad is a good deal quieter. Really love the convenience of a pellet stove, set the t-stat and walk away, the ease of keeping it fill. Have been tossing around the idea of a wood burner when we build our place......but between the mess, the somewhat difficult to regulate heat, having to get up on the roof to clean the pipe.....and the big one.....my busted up back and shoulder making splitting a bit difficult....just does not seem like a wise idea.....

hooter04 · Nov 30, 2013

only thing I question is why do you have to clean that stove on a weekly basis,other than maybe it puts out a tick more heat Myself I clean mine about every 1/2 ton which is about every 30 days during peak heating season.

LMPS · Dec 1, 2013

doug crann said:
The problem very could well be that my ocd is in high gear the past few days. Thing that bugs me is the amount of soot that has been building up, to me, is a sure sign that I have somewhat incomplete combustion. I just put it back on manual/high and took these pictures. Flame does not seem to be as high as it was a few minutes ago. If I leave the stove on auto & by chance it ends up on high is this not going to overheat the stove? We have 4 birds in our place, would hate to go to town & have the stove overheat & turn off while we are gone.....don't think our feathered friends would appreciate the house with out heat.....

I have burned mine on +5 for extended periods and never had it overheat and shut down. I am not sure the soot is being driven by the flame height, I really think this has more to do with the burning level, meaning low, medium, high. I know if I burn in low I get a lot more black soot. When I burn in high it is more white.
I do not worry about the height of the flame, I judge it by the amount of heat. If the house is warm then I level it alone if I need more heat I turn up the flame height.

Madcodger · Dec 1, 2013

I am "dialing in" our MVAE for this year's pellets but generally agree with the comments about letting the flames just touch the plate when routinely burning. When just starting up and bringing the house back to daytime temps it will be higher, and when approaching target temp on auto it will be lower.

I have given up on keeping the glass clean. It's good for 2-3 days, and then we get grey and black soot. And that's after multiple pellet brands, hard and soft (although soft MUCH worse for us), and even right after the annual cleanings. As noted, go with heat output AND flame quality as a guide. You want a nice, bright, generally "quick" flame rather than an orange, lazy flame. If your tstat is set appropriately and positioned to reflect room temp, I would not worry about "overheating".

The MVAE is an easy stove to use in terms of just setting the stat and filling it during the week, but as tsmith notes, it has fewer adjustments than us tinkerers might like.

LMPS · Dec 1, 2013

hooter04 said:
only thing I question is why do you have to clean that stove on a weekly basis,other than maybe it puts out a tick more heat Myself I clean mine about every 1/2 ton which is about every 30 days during peak heating season.

Do you have to empty your ash pan in between cleanings? I find I can not go more than a week to a week and half without at least emptying the ash pan. I bigger ash pan is on the wish list for this stove.

john193 · Dec 1, 2013

The term "flame height" it often misleading and doesnt quite describe the purpose of the setting. The manual notes how you adjust it, but it isnt clear what you are doing. To make matters more confusing, the flame dances on this stove constantly. Even on low, you will have the flame "touch the top of the diamond."

The flame height adjustment should really have been called feed rate. That is all the setting does. The higher the number, the more fuel the auger will dump, which will mean more heat. I personally up my feed rate to +2 during the colder months (-1 otherwise) to heat the house. This combination has worked well for me, and just something I played with. I didnt create an excel spreadsheet or call NASA for advice on plotting all my variables.

The different fuel types available control a few variables, none of which can be manually overridden. I run my stove on softwood purely because it has the longest interval between autoclean cycles. While I'm not burning a softwood (barefoot pellets) this setting works just fine. It is important to keep in mind that a "dirtier" pellet could put more stress on the autoclean system due to the extended time between cleanings (potentially jamming the system, requiring some manual labor).

As for the soot, the pictures posted look completely normal. After a cleaning, my glass will turn slightly hazy within 24 hours, start graying between 24-48 and then start turning a dark gray from that period out. Running the stove on low will accelerate this.

Madcodger · Dec 1, 2013

Oh, almost forgot the freight train sound... Almost certainly your ash pan drawer not being properly seated, as it allows air to leak in. Loudest sound the stove ever makes, by far! Fought it for two years until a new tech told me about it, and I think we replaced the gasket as well (bad from factory, but a very easy fix). It still happens after every few weekly cleanings, to the point that when it starts my wife looks at me and says, "ash pan". I pull it out a few inches, and give it a good, hard shove. Good 'til the next cleaning... If that doesn't work, replace the gasket.

doug crann · Dec 1, 2013

hooter04 said:
only thing I question is why do you have to clean that stove on a weekly basis,other than maybe it puts out a tick more heat Myself I clean mine about every 1/2 ton which is about every 30 days during peak heating season.

Whenever I empty the pan, which if I let it go more than 7-8 days once winter settles in the thing overflows, I vacuum the box and clean the glass. Every other week or so I like to remove the plate and clean behind it, seems like if I don't it rumbles a bit.....

doug crann · Dec 1, 2013

LMPS said:
I have burned mine on +5 for extended periods and never had it overheat and shut down. I am not sure the soot is being driven by the flame height, I really think this has more to do with the burning level, meaning low, medium, high. I know if I burn in low I get a lot more black soot. When I burn in high it is more white.
I do not worry about the height of the flame, I judge it by the amount of heat. If the house is warm then I level it alone if I need more heat I turn up the flame height.

I turned it up +5 last night. This morning it had 0 soot in it. Had the normal brown haze on the glass, not the poofy soot....

doug crann · Dec 1, 2013

john193 said:
The term "flame height" it often misleading and doesnt quite describe the purpose of the setting. The manual notes how you adjust it, but it isnt clear what you are doing. To make matters more confusing, the flame dances on this stove constantly. Even on low, you will have the flame "touch the top of the diamond."

The flame height adjustment should really have been called feed rate. That is all the setting does. The higher the number, the more fuel the auger will dump, which will mean more heat. I personally up my feed rate to +2 during the colder months (-1 otherwise) to heat the house. This combination has worked well for me, and just something I played with. I didnt create an excel spreadsheet or call NASA for advice on plotting all my variables.

The different fuel types available control a few variables, none of which can be manually overridden. I run my stove on softwood purely because it has the longest interval between autoclean cycles. While I'm not burning a softwood (barefoot pellets) this setting works just fine. It is important to keep in mind that a "dirtier" pellet could put more stress on the autoclean system due to the extended time between cleanings (potentially jamming the system, requiring some manual labor).

As for the soot, the pictures posted look completely normal. After a cleaning, my glass will turn slightly hazy within 24 hours, start graying between 24-48 and then start turning a dark gray from that period out. Running the stove on low will accelerate this.

Why couldn't QF just tell you in the manual what the "Flame Height" adjustment actually does. I am going to turn the adjustment back down until it soots up, and then bump it back up one. No point in me running the stove that hot on days like today, 44*.

The big part of this problem is me. I have several mental health issues, the combination of them makes me over-analyze damn near everything.

Again, Thanks everyone for your input....onto my next ?

LMPS · Dec 1, 2013

doug crann said:
Why couldn't QF just tell you in the manual what the "Flame Height" adjustment actually does. I am going to turn the adjustment back down until it soots up, and then bump it back up one. No point in me running the stove that hot on days like today, 44*.

The big part of this problem is me. I have several mental health issues, the combination of them makes me over-analyze damn near everything.

Again, Thanks everyone for your input....onto my next ?

You are correct no reason to burn on +5 unless its cold out and you need more heat.

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