Americans mistrust eachother

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webbie

webbie

Seasoned Moderator
Nov 17, 2005
12,165
Western Mass.
Hopefully this won't get political, because if you read the facts it's not related to political divisiveness - what it seems to be related to is the idea that we are each an island....as the article says "bowling alone". Turns out that the less you deal with people, the less you trust them......

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20131130/in-god-we-trust-maybe-but-not-each-other

Lots of reasons - people paying too much attention to media (of all kinds) instead of reality.

I'd have to guess consumerism, as a whole, speeds the process of mistrust.

The good news is that here, on Hearth.com, folks are probably headed in the opposite direction - helping others both virtually and in-person, spending time outdoors, caring about clean air, etc...as opposed to just putting our heads in our hands and lamenting about the next sad news story.
 
I have always found that there is more mis-trust in the city than in the country. It is sort of like what we find when we travel. Get into the cities or very heavy traffic and it seems most folks loose there sense of brotherhood. But then, didn't Thoreau have something to say about this too and this was many moons ago.

It went something like this: "We live thick and in each other’s way and stumble over one another. I think we thus lose some respect for one another." Methinks that man was right and it makes one wonder what he would think today.
 
I live in the "country" and never had this issue, until my neighbor's home was broken into while they were sleeping, and the building two doors up the road, and the old man a 1/4 mile in the other direction who they knocked unconscious before ransacking, etc. All happened within a few weeks time span 2 years ago.

Now, I find myself turning around 200 yards down the road to double check that I closed the garage door, or get out of bed to double check the doors are locked, etc.

Very sad, but the violation of close friends and neighbors in this otherwise sleepy area really shook me.

When it comes to folks who live where the population density is much higher, it is sad, but I can't blame them for being mistrustful.

Now, this new found mistrust generally applies to our safety at home and precautions to help protect that. Otherwise, I still take a man at his word, etc. However, it may be a long time before I ever trust a knock at the door in the middle of the night, for the right or for the wrong.

pen
 
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From what I have read about Thoreau, I don't trust him much. ;lol
 
I tend to trust just about everyone until proven otherwise. Unfortunately, some have proven otherwise......

But that depends on your standards. Trust is a fungible thing.

The interesting thing about the article is that it mentions that people still trusted others (including gubment) during the Vietnam War and all the other messes we've had. I always thought that the JFK, MLF and RFK stuff, along with Vietnam (LBJ) and then Nixon resigning knocked out the basic trust of America in Americans. But apparently it didn't. It's people shutting themselves off from others and consuming media that seems to be doing the job better.....

I don't watch TV news or talking heads any longer. Not at all. Same goes with the radio....pretty much NPR or nothing or something very tame...

But I am complete amazed at the level of BS and propaganda that folks seem to suck up from the media. Being turkey week, we have a lot of family stopping by and I've given up even correcting them.......it simply is not worth the time or energy. If people want to withdraw and be part of a "tribe" that believes the same BS they do, the internet and cable news, etc. provides an easy time of it.
 
Although I am not religious, I think the decline in people going to church might be another factor. It seems to me that church is 'insta-community' where people get to (mostly) belong to a group and see each other every week.

I kinda wish I had that, but I'm not a believer and it just doesn't seem right to pretend :). Maybe I should start a humanist chapter in town.

We all live very individualistic lives now - I read a very sad article about the spread of loneliness in society the other day. Facebook and the Hearth just aren't the same as real people in the flesh, but they can be useful as well. I have read some very touching comments on here. Balance is what I'm striving for - hopefully I'll get there one day.
 
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Cynnergy said:
Although I am not religious, I think the decline in people going to church might be another factor. It seems to me that church is 'insta-community' where people get to (mostly) belong to a group and see each other every week.

I kinda wish I had that, but I'm not a believer and it just doesn't seem right to pretend :). Maybe I should start a humanist chapter in town.
Click to expand...

I agree about the humanist chapter.....church is alright but when I was a kid alot of those kids I saw in church and sunday school would beat the crap out of me at regular school.

My **theory** is that putting folks into an 'outgroup' (of any kind) makes it hard to trust those people. The culture wars and political fights and geopolitics of the last 40 years has been largely about that, IMO, and we have reaped the result. And the media have made a pretty penny selling our distrust to each other--can't watch the local TV news without wanting the throw a brick at the TV--so I haven't watched it since I was a teen.

Koombaya--maybe the worst of all that is behind us now. I sincerely hope so.
 
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Its no wonder as there is a good deal of BS flyin around. People lie a lot. From small white ones to big giant ones. And just because you heard it on TV or the internet dont make it true.
The ACA is suffering from this trend greatly.
 
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With violent crime way down over the last couple decades...most of the emotional harm we suffer comes at the hands of our own family members. If your spouse divorces you, it hurts you a lot more in the long run than getting burgled or mugged. But how hard is it to not trust a spouse or parent?
 
I think mistrust is too strong a word for it. We need to be wary of each other because we are alike in our self interest. We all know to buy low and sell high, or to nick a peach from the fruit stand when times are tough, or maybe buy a $2000k rug from an old lady for $50.00 at a lawn sale. We're too much influenced by the business culture in our personal dealings.

I'm not religious in the conventional sense either but share a longing for the community aspect. We have a progressive Minister in our town with whom my neighbor and I take our constitutional 3 times a week. We talk about religious topics and attend various church functions without feeling pressure to formally join. Our daughter hops about from church to church where ever her friends go.

There is a sense though that Organized religion has co-opted morality and community in many ways. For example my minister friend was told by his handlers, (behind the scenes of course) that he could not attend, let alone perform a marriage ceremony for a gay relative with out permission and with unspecified consequences.

I think it is a good thing for the secular community to include and to demand (gently) inclusion.

We need leaders who are Ombudsmen, rather than attack dogs.
 
My good friends who were super "churchy" had a great community - so did my italian (catholic) side of the family. My friends ended up, along with many of their flock, getting ripped off in a Ponzi scheme involving their pastor (making 50% interest every 3 months, and then reinvesting it all, then losing it all)......my catholic family was shocked by the child abuse scandals......

Etc, etc. etc......

My dad recently asked me what was going to happen to this country.....I said it already happened. In the larger sense, this is not a country anymore - it's a conglomeration of "tribes", not much different than many other countries in the world. Whether churches, humanists, atheists, etc......groups can be labeled as tribes if they feel themselves superior or "more right" than others.

I'm not even saying this is a bad thing...that is, the tribal thing. The modern nation-state may simply not be the right model for mankind at the present, yet may have been needed for proper defense and trade.

And, yes, Ehouse is also correct that our unbridled consumerism (capitalism) can separate us. If we each care more about individually getting a good deal on everything, that means we - in effect - don't care about the whole. If we push for a tax break or cheat on our taxes, we are practicing perfect selfishness (usually morally reconciled in some way) - and therefore not being a good citizen.

It always struck me when taking to the Danes I got to know...they would shake their heads at me and ask "why would anyone try to get away with not paying taxes? After all, how else could we build schools, a cleaner world, etc.?"

You may call them naive, but on the other hand we here are self-destructive in thinking that each of us gets to decide our own "laws".
 
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Went into Home Depot yesterday. I wanted to see the woodstoves but they had none on the floor at all. :mad: Then I was going to get Dremel tool, but after wandering up and down a few aisles looking for it I was driven out by the Christmas music. I get no joy out of shopping at Christmas time, especially with loud canned Christmas music. Left without buying anything and feeling like I was unAmerican or something. I like Christmas, Mexico style. There is no gift buying spree until the week before Christmas and even then it's quite modest and mostly practical stuff and small gifts. Family gathering is where it's at.
 
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begreen said:
Went into Home Depot yesterday. I wanted to see the woodstoves but they had none on the floor at all. :mad: Then I was going to get Dremel tool, but after wandering up and down a few aisles looking for it I was driven out by the Christmas music. I get no joy out of shopping at Christmas time, especially with loud canned Christmas music. Left without buying anything feeling like I was unAmerican or something. I like Christmas, Mexico style. There is no gift buying spree until the week before Christmas and even then it's quite modest and mostly practical stuff and small gifts. Family gathering is where it's at.
Click to expand...

Well thanks to US Holidays, we now have Red Thursday, Black Friday, purple Tuersday (Ok, exagerated but the others are true), Boxing day WEEK sales.

After realizing that my family and I buy gifts for 25 people, we may be toning it down next year.

As for mistrust, from my lived accounts I find there is a big difference between rural and urban. Guess which ones trust less...
 
Hey, don't forget cyber Monday. The funny thing is that all of these days are just hooks to get people into the stores and then impulse buy. You can get better bargains by waiting closer to Christmas. Or just skip shopping and make nice gifts instead.
 
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begreen said:
Went into Home Depot yesterday. I wanted to see the woodstoves but they had none on the floor at all. :mad: Then I was going to get Dremel tool, but after wandering up and down a few aisles looking for it I was driven out by the Christmas music. I get no joy out of shopping at Christmas time, especially with loud canned Christmas music. Left without buying anything and feeling like I was unAmerican or something. I like Christmas, Mexico style. There is no gift buying spree until the week before Christmas and even then it's quite modest and mostly practical stuff and small gifts. Family gathering is where it's at.
Click to expand...


Agree 100%. I absolutely detest shopping for anything during this time of year with the throngs of folks, canned Christmas music and the radio stations that broadcast songs 24/7 . . . after hearing The Chipmunk Christmas Song for the 17th time in one day I want to go out and start killing all the chipmunks in the parks, my front yard, etc.

Also agree on the consumerism . . . pretty sad when this time of year it seems the lead story the day on Thanksgiving or the day after are folks at the Black Friday sales and then we hear periodic stories about how gift giving is up or down, how local shops are doing better or worse, a story about the top toy or gift, etc.

A few years back my wife and I stopped giving and receiving gifts. We made it quite clear to family and friends that we had enough stuff and were tired of the emphasis on gift giving during the holidays and so we were choosing instead to focus on getting together with those we love and cherish.

It took some folks a while to understand our position . . . and honestly, I'm not sure we could have done this if we had children or grand children . . . but otherwise I have to say Christmas went from a very stressful time of year for my wife to one of her favorite times of the year.
 
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[quote="Swedishchef, post: 1589493, member: 13390"
After realizing that my family and I buy gifts for 25 people, we may be toning it down next year.
..[/quote]
It really gets out of hand ,we dont buy toys even for our 7 and 9 Yr old. Just practical gifts ,things they need. They still get gobs of toys from family and friends ,so no need to add to that overkill.
I think we are at 30-40 people on our list ,i keep gently pushing the wife to reduce the size of the list. Makes me look like a grinch, but hey,its just nuts.
 
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Christmas ain't the only thing. As an older father of a 9 year old, I'm appalled by the birthday arms race. No longer a few friends over to the house for cake and ice cream, now the whole class must be invited, and to an expensive venue to boot. Micky D's, Chucky Cheese, Bowling, Roller rink etc. For the last one our daughter attended, the parents took every kid in class to Build-a-Bear and bought them each a Bear 'n trimmings!
 
Seasoned Oak said:
[quote="Swedishchef, post: 1589493, member: 13390"
After realizing that my family and I buy gifts for 25 people, we may be toning it down next year.
..
Click to expand...
It really gets out of hand ,we dont buy toys even for our 7 and 9 Yr old. Just practical gifts ,things they need. They still get gobs of toys from family and friends ,so no need to add to that overkill.
I think we are at 30-40 people on our list ,i keep gently pushing the wife to reduce the size of the list. Makes me look like a grinch, but hey,its just nuts.[/quote]
Santa buys toys (1-2 each) and we buy practical things. Why? Simple: we still have our 3 year old's toys from when he was 1 because we now have a 1 year old. If everyone in the family gets 2 toys for each kid, they get about 30 gifts at christmas!!! And every gift the older kid gets are are keeping for the youngest (well, that WAS the plan, it may be changing soon. There are more kids that need toys (the needy) that ours do).
 
begreen said:
Hey, don't forget cyber Monday. The funny thing is that all of these days are just hooks to get people into the stores and then impulse buy. You can get better bargains by waiting closer to Christmas. Or just skip shopping and make nice gifts instead.
Click to expand...

I forgot today......
 
Ehouse said:
Christmas ain't the only thing. As an older father of a 9 year old, I'm appalled by the birthday arms race. No longer a few friends over to the house for cake and ice cream, now the whole class must be invited, and to an expensive venue to boot. Micky D's, Chucky Cheese, Bowling, Roller rink etc. For the last one our daughter attended, the parents took every kid in class to Build-a-Bear and bought them each a Bear 'n trimmings!
Click to expand...
Wait till their events involve "limos" :)
 
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