Should wood burning be banned?

did you notice the title of the article in the binghamton link? "burning issues" is it a coencidence??? looks like the pro-woodburning were ruling in the comment box for the article. no sign of the "BI gnats" thank god!!

the washington state one is interesting , will be interesting to see what that study brings out. but then washington state has been hammering woodburning for many years was one of the first(oregon) to adopt clean air legislation but the state is loaded with older stoves pre epa they really more than any other state should work on a switch out program for pre epa units.

NO!

My answer is no. Burning wood is actually a natural process in balance with nature. Leave a forest alone and what will it do? BURN. However, I do agree that something should be done to get the old smoke dragons out of homes. The problem is that every time somone buys a new stove, someone else buys an old smoke dragon thinking they really saved a bundle!

Does anyone have an idea on how to incorporate a destruction clause into a plan? I mean, if I buy a new stove, write it off on my taxes under some clean air incentive, and then sell my old Fisher Stove to some local guy, have we really made progress? If we're really looking for clean air we need to let a certificate of destruction be part of the plan. Hopefully the steel cutter at the scrap yard does not open a used stove shop at the front gate!

Jack

I feel about my wood stove like Charlton Heston felt about his guns - they'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. After only a little over 1 year of use, my wife and I consider it one of the important things in our home. All wood burners need to take responsibility for seeing that their wood is prepared properly and their stove is in the best operating condition possible. This helps to avoid complaints from neighbors, and assures that you are getting the most efficient use of your stove.

Outdoor boilers are another issue. These things are a real nuisance in some areas. All of the ones I have seen locally are really bad polluters. None of them have stacks that are high enough to get the smoke off the ground properly. This is definitely an item that needs some sort of EPA regulation. The industry must be blind if they can't see that more and more localities will begin banning them unless they clean up their act.

From the article:

“People who burn wood tend to burn garbage in stoves,” complained board member Esther Day.

This is the kind of bias we are up against. To the people making the decisions, we woodburners are a bunch of cave men burning trash and polluting her air. We are also easy targets since there is so much less economic or political impact like shutting down a polluting factory and since woodburners make up such a minority of the people.

I would support a changeout program. To include scrapping the old one. Maybe the scrapper would sign off on the rebate form. A quick loook at Craigslist shows half a dozen non-certified stoves for free to a couple hundred bucks. I would even support a program to plain scrap the old stoves with no requirement to buy a new one. Additional regulations for current and legal EPA stove burners are of little value. We already have frequent burn bans in the winter based on poor air quality where non EPA stoves and fireplaces are banned from burning unless of course it is the only source of heat.

All of these dang government groups like to site around and make the world a better place by picking on the minority folks. For example, lets create open space by banning land clearing at the expense of who? The minority of folks that own large land parcels.

EXACTLY! The old stuff has to be destroyed or lese we're running in circles! How about a $100 tax credit for destroying an uncertified stove. Maybe people will make a second job of finding these things and turning them in to the scrapper. You think anyone that matters reads here? How about a few keywords they can find and maybe they can write something that actually works and leave the wood burners alone for a change;

EPA
Government
Clean Air
Emissions
stoves
wood
heat
legislation
law
congress
representatives
regulation
chage-out

No bans.

EPA Phase II has dramatically cleaned up woodburners' smoke. EPA program is working. Let it continue working, and encourage pre-EPA homeowners to upgrade. Perhaps incentives to homeowners to changeout pre-EPA units.

builderbob

All this change out stuff and destroying the old stove begs the question. How many times would Al Gore have to hit a stove with a sledge hammer to break it? I'm guessing too many and that's why it has never been a photo op for him.

We members who helped install the latest donor stove, have done exactly what most suggested. We removed a very dangereous smoke dragon and installed an EPA II stove
The old smoke dragon ended up in the back of my pk truck and went to the scrap yard, where one final kick rolled it to its final resting place.
Not only are hearth net members delivering the message but are leading the charge with our actions.. The latest donor stove was bought by donations from fellow hearth net members
IT was installed by hearth net members Harley Keyman GVA and myself

But wait there is another donor stove a brand new VC everburn Encore soon to be installed, given to the program by Vermont Castings. The stove it is replacing is an early version EPA approved stove VC cat Encore. This will be rebuilt and brought up to like new conditions and will replace a smoke dragon from another fellow Hearth member Goose

bmstove.com said:

My answer is no. Burning wood is actually a natural process in balance with nature. Leave a forest alone and what will it do? BURN. However, I do agree that something should be done to get the old smoke dragons out of homes. The problem is that every time somone buys a new stove, someone else buys an old smoke dragon thinking they really saved a bundle!

Does anyone have an idea on how to incorporate a destruction clause into a plan? I mean, if I buy a new stove, write it off on my taxes under some clean air incentive, and then sell my old Fisher Stove to some local guy, have we really made progress? If we're really looking for clean air we need to let a certificate of destruction be part of the plan. Hopefully the steel cutter at the scrap yard does not open a used stove shop at the front gate!

Jack

Click to expand...

Now I know I'm gonna catch h^ll for this BUT...

EPA regs, newer stoves, etc etc is no solution...better educated woodburners are the first and foremost best resource.

As a "country boy"...I've been burning wood "a good long time". Someone that knows "how to burn a fire" is the best way to clean up the air. The best stove on the market is no good unless you "know how to burn responsibly".

...The worst offenders are those that turn the damper back so tight to try to achieve "The longest burn time possible" that they basically "run a smudge pot". I don't know how many there are out there...but they stick out first and foremost because generally their neighborhood is a "smoke pot".

Usually, these types graduate to OWB's...

Unfortunately, a few wreck things for many. I have a wood fired boiler...and it is 'outdoors'...but I'll tell you one thing...don't even dare trying to put me in that category...

PAJerry said:

I feel about my wood stove like Charlton Heston felt about his guns - they'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. After only a little over 1 year of use, my wife and I consider it one of the important things in our home. All wood burners need to take responsibility for seeing that their wood is prepared properly and their stove is in the best operating condition possible. This helps to avoid complaints from neighbors, and assures that you are getting the most efficient use of your stove.

Outdoor boilers are another issue. These things are a real nuisance in some areas. All of the ones I have seen locally are really bad polluters. None of them have stacks that are high enough to get the smoke off the ground properly. This is definitely an item that needs some sort of EPA regulation. The industry must be blind if they can't see that more and more localities will begin banning them unless they clean up their act.

Click to expand...

Whether you "like it or not" outdoor boilers are not another issue... to the "other side" (the folks over at BI for instance) Whether you have a wood or pellet stove, a fireplace, a barbeque pit, or a boiler either indors or out... it's "all the same issue". If you "allow a division in the ranks" they will pick all of us apart "one at a time". First the OWB's will bear the attack, then stove owners, then fireplaces, and finally if they get their way you won't so much as be able to cook a hot dog in your backyard over an open flame.

If you think this seems pretty far fetched think again.

While there are problems in the OWB arena...the boilers themselves are not so much the problem... as are the "mentality of the majority of their owners". The biggest problem with OWB owners is "They are atypical Americans of the mentality of 'bigger is better'..." Pushing or even so much as 'allowing' for regulation is the worst thing that can be done.

Given the current climate, and the 'average mindset' in regards to outdoor boilers....Do you really think Tarm, AHS or any other (gasification boiler manufacturers...some of the 'cleanest technology going' ) would ever make an outdoor unit??? Not on your life!

Be carefull what you advocate...the mob might take it "as a free pass...for a free for all open season"...

...Think about it.

I agree that the owners are the biggest part of the problem. Some will never learn the right way to do things, no matter what. You must admit that the technology of the OWB is nowhere near that of an EPA compliant wood stove. It doesn't seem to be too much of a stretch to say that the same can be applied to OWBs with a little effort. The fact is that ALL forms of wood burning should be made as clean as possible and all woodburners should be as educated as possible in the proper use of their stoves. This forum is one of the best places for good info.

'Regulation' is a tough thing, since common sense seldom seems to come into play with it anymore. Regulation should be intented to be 'common sense for the common good' but has become a vehicle for the most radical and off-the-wall among us, as well as a cash cow for the legal profession. Enforcement is also a problem. Many regs are only applied when someone howls and then they are open to endless 'intrepretation' by the courts and end up accomplishing either nothing, or something that was never intended in the first place. The legal system is broken.

elkimmeg said:

We members who helped install the latest donor stove, have done exactly what most suggested. We removed a very dangereous smoke dragon and installed an EPA II stove
The old smoke dragon ended up in the back of my pk truck and went to the scrap yard, where one final kick rolled it to its final resting place.
Not only are hearth net members delivering the message but are leading the charge with our actions.. The latest donor stove was bought by donations from fellow hearth net members
IT was installed by hearth net members Harley Keyman GVA and myself

But wait there is another donor stove a brand new VC everburn Encore soon to be installed, given to the program by Vermont Castings. The stove it is replacing is an early version EPA approved stove VC cat Encore. This will be rebuilt and brought up to like new conditions and will replace a smoke dragon from another fellow Hearth member Goose

Click to expand...

Thanks for letting the cat out of the bag... :cheese: I hadn't wanted to mention anything about changing out the stove until you said it was OK... This will replace one of the two smoke dragons I have, the other is VERY seldom used, and I pledge that the replaced stove will NOT be put back into service as a heater, though I might make it into a smoker or some such... (Note that both stoves are old but structurally sound...)

This first season might be a bit of a challenge for semi-dry wood, but it should get better - rather than processing my new supply I've been recutting and moving my existing supply from it's old nominal 24" length to 18" to fit the new stove - I've finally gotten that done, I have about 1.5-2 cords left over from last year, and another 1.5 or so of stuff I processed early this spring, now I'm working on the new truckload of log length, which I've gotten cut to length and am now splitting and stacking in the wood shed - I'm estimating I'll get into it late Dec. to early Jan, so it will only have had about 5-6 months to season, but will have been covered for most of that time. Hopefully it will be OK.

Gooserider